New coach search...

BigA

Scout Team
Dec 21, 2013
134
0
35
Trussville, Al
A couple of things to things...Grant $4M buyout will not be an issue in new coach salary. He most likely will get gig at George Mason or comparable if he wants to coach next year. So will technically negate buyout over next 4 years.

I think Prohm or White will be the most likely choice. Both are up and comer's...but not sure either will excite fan base. I think both would be good coaches and an improvement over Grant.

Not sure will take chance on Howland, Capel type or Tom Crean's even a possibility. Absolutely laughable we would offer Marshall $3.5 million...that's top 10 money and unfortunately our program is not at that level (sorry but being brutally honest). This opinion is coming from a BB season ticket holder for over 10 years.
 

Ldlane

Hall of Fame
Nov 26, 2002
14,253
398
102
A couple of things to things...Grant $4M buyout will not be an issue in new coach salary. He most likely will get gig at George Mason or comparable if he wants to coach next year. So will technically negate buyout over next 4 years.

I think Prohm or White will be the most likely choice. Both are up and comer's...but not sure either will excite fan base. I think both would be good coaches and an improvement over Grant.

Not sure will take chance on Howland, Capel type or Tom Crean's even a possibility. Absolutely laughable we would offer Marshall $3.5 million...that's top 10 money and unfortunately our program is not at that level (sorry but being brutally honest). This opinion is coming from a BB season ticket holder for over 10 years.
The money is for him to take it to that level!
 

BamaMTA06

All-SEC
Sep 9, 2007
1,911
12
57
A couple of things to things...Grant $4M buyout will not be an issue in new coach salary. He most likely will get gig at George Mason or comparable if he wants to coach next year. So will technically negate buyout over next 4 years.

I think Prohm or White will be the most likely choice. Both are up and comer's...but not sure either will excite fan base. I think both would be good coaches and an improvement over Grant.

Not sure will take chance on Howland, Capel type or Tom Crean's even a possibility. Absolutely laughable we would offer Marshall $3.5 million...that's top 10 money and unfortunately our program is not at that level (sorry but being brutally honest). This opinion is coming from a BB season ticket holder for over 10 years.
We have to pay a premium to get a coach like that. It will take a lot to get him away from WSU. I'd much rather pay him over the other options.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
187
44
kraizy.art
Big difference in the two, IMO, is that Crean's record has improved 13 out of the 16 years he's been a head coach, and one of the years his record got worse was due to a job change. Davis' teams have only improved in 7 of 15 years. Crean makes programs better, Davis makes programs worse. But, none of that matters anyway since neither will be our head coach. But I really like the idea of a guy whose teams actually get better year to year.
That's a cherry picked statistic and I'd say it's misleading as well. What terrifies me about Crean is what his teams do after he supposedly has a program on track. At Marquette, after his team makes the final four, he follows that up with two 19 win/NIT seasons. That's 19 wins at a mid-major, you'll actually have trouble finding any of these coaches we are bringing up who had a single 19 win season at a mid-major (after theyg got going), much less two in a row. That is very ominous when you consider the low level of competition and that you can recruit instant impact players. He did that at Indiana to, after the mediocre use of talent with the Sweet 16 runs, he followed that up with a 17 win season. That's not good either. We're talking about things that have never happened to coaches like Bruce Pearl (heck Bruce won 15 at Auburn last year, Auburn that's better than any of Crean's first three years at a basketball power), and Gregg Marshall. So, it's not just his slow start, it's not just his regression at Marquette, his failing do anything with a loaded team, or his 17 win season at Indiana, it's the combination that's scary.

So, honestly Crean terrifies me. He only seems capable of having a really good season if he has a lottery pick on his team (and that's a true rarity for Alabama) and even with lottery picks, he's capable of underwhelming. That's why Indiana fans hate him, they had to suffer through some lousy seasons, and then when he was stacked with talent he didn't even make it out of the Sweet 16. At Alabama he'd have seasons where the talent isn't there and his track record indicates he's not going to do well at all in those situations.

Absolutely laughable we would offer Marshall $3.5 million...that's top 10 money and unfortunately our program is not at that level (sorry but being brutally honest). This opinion is coming from a BB season ticket holder for over 10 years.
I am convinced the only thing holding the Alabama program back is the coaching (said this before the last hire to, also said Alabama should hire a proven coach then as well). Yes, football fixation is an issue. Had Alabama not been so fixated on football, they would already have a very good coach (Bruce Pearl). However, Gregg Marshall checks all the boxes. He's done more than any Alabama coach, ever. He's never shown real regression, he's been to the final four, he's been to NCAA tournament 11 times (at mid-majors), that's as many as Alabama has been in going back to 1990, he's young enough to have a real impact, I believe he's 3-1 against Alabama, and he probably wants a chance to win a championship as badly as Alabama does.

In terms of what level the program is at, Alabama has shown their attendance can be around the top 25, even with Gottfried, they had a program that made it to the Elite 8, and had a #1 ranking once, their coach pay is already top 25, and their athletic program is making so much money they don't know what to do with it all. If they show they are willing to pay this much for a top tier coach, they will have a chance to become a top 10 program, the resources are all there but yes things have to change and that starts with the head coach. Basically, the way I see it if Alabama wants to be a top ten program (and they can be), they have to start acting like one.
 

CrimsonEyeshade

Hall of Fame
Nov 6, 2007
5,409
1,520
187
1. Marquette was playing in the Big East -- which makes it about as non mid-major as you can get.

2. Crean's first three years at IU were with a far more depleted roster than Pearl's and he faced Big 10 competition.

3. Only a handful of schools maintain the kind of level of success you describe. Kentucky was in the NIT two years ago. North Carolina ended up in the middle of the ACC the last few years. Duke lost in the first round of the tournament. This isn't football. The size and turnover on the roster from year to year makes programs far less stable.

Whether we hire Crean or not -- maybe he doesn't fit, though Wimp Sanderson offering advice in that area strikes me as ironic -- he has coached and succeeded against the best competition in the country. Give him his due.
 

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
18,810
6,245
187
Greenbow, Alabama
IMO KrAzY that has always been the question; does Alabama want to be a perennial top 10 program? With the exception of Grant, every hire since C M Newton has been a "let's settle for" type. That is fine for a program like Alabama that wants to win at least 20+ games a year, an upper-mid tier SEC finish and get a regular NCAA invite. That is Alabama basketball. Can it change, not so sure it wants to change.
 

CajunCrimson

Moderator (FB,BB) and Vinyl Enthusiast
Staff member
Mar 13, 2001
26,508
20,437
337
Breaux Bridge, La
Basketball at Alabama has always been "something to do after January until Spring Practice" -- that's never going to change. Basketball will always be a DISTANT #2.....

When Wimp was here, it was still that way. We had (at one point) 9 guys playing in the NBA that wore Bama Unis......we had one team that I believe had 5 future NBA players on it.....

1991-1992 featured Horry, Sprewell, Hollywood, Eric Washington and Jason Caffey..... (and I'm sure there were others) -- a 26 win season.....

Looking at Attendance for some of the early games of 1992-1993 (the next season)

Home game vs Wichita 7170
Home game vs So Miss 6350
Home game vs Tn State 3413
Home game vs A&M 7392

We only averaged 9K for all home games (including SEC games) and this was in the Plaid Palace days.....

We just need to realize - Hoops will never be anything big.....just big enough is what we are hoping for.

I love Bama Basketball, always have.....but we sort of need to know our place.....which is -- a Football school that can win year in and year out in Hoops -- but the fans will never fully support it.
 

RedStar

Hall of Fame
Jan 28, 2005
9,628
0
0
39
The Shoals, AL
Basketball at Alabama has always been "something to do after January until Spring Practice" -- that's never going to change. Basketball will always be a DISTANT #2.....

When Wimp was here, it was still that way. We had (at one point) 9 guys playing in the NBA that wore Bama Unis......we had one team that I believe had 5 future NBA players on it.....

1991-1992 featured Horry, Sprewell, Hollywood, Eric Washington and Jason Caffey..... (and I'm sure there were others) -- a 26 win season.....

Looking at Attendance for some of the early games of 1992-1993 (the next season)

Home game vs Wichita 7170
Home game vs So Miss 6350
Home game vs Tn State 3413
Home game vs A&M 7392

We only averaged 9K for all home games (including SEC games) and this was in the Plaid Palace days.....

We just need to realize - Hoops will never be anything big.....just big enough is what we are hoping for.

I love Bama Basketball, always have.....but we sort of need to know our place.....which is -- a Football school that can win year in and year out in Hoops -- but the fans will never fully support it.
I just don't understand this mentality. We're the second winningest SEC program of all time. Several schools across the country have proven you can be good/great at both at the same time. Our fanbase is large enough, our income is high enough.

We should absolutely expect to be good/great at both.
 

pchil86

3rd Team
Feb 16, 2014
222
0
0
Basketball at Alabama has always been "something to do after January until Spring Practice" -- that's never going to change. Basketball will always be a DISTANT #2.....

When Wimp was here, it was still that way. We had (at one point) 9 guys playing in the NBA that wore Bama Unis......we had one team that I believe had 5 future NBA players on it.....

1991-1992 featured Horry, Sprewell, Hollywood, Eric Washington and Jason Caffey..... (and I'm sure there were others) -- a 26 win season.....

Looking at Attendance for some of the early games of 1992-1993 (the next season)

Home game vs Wichita 7170
Home game vs So Miss 6350
Home game vs Tn State 3413
Home game vs A&M 7392

We only averaged 9K for all home games (including SEC games) and this was in the Plaid Palace days.....

We just need to realize - Hoops will never be anything big.....just big enough is what we are hoping for.

I love Bama Basketball, always have.....but we sort of need to know our place.....which is -- a Football school that can win year in and year out in Hoops -- but the fans will never fully support it.
Definitely don't agree......if Tennessee (back in Bruce pearls day) and Florida and Texas and Michigan can be successful at both then so can Alabama....even LSU is gaining popularity in basketball and getting better every year.....we just need the right coach
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
20,931
15,930
282
Boone, NC
Man, I can't believe some of this "we are mediocre" so let's not ever try to be more than "mediocre." Let's just hire a "mediocre" coach for our "mediocre" program.

I don't care if we win a national championship in football 3 out of 5 years, there is no reason not to aim much higher with our Bball program.

There's an old saying "Shoot for the moon and if you miss you'll land among the stars." I don't really know if Marshall is a viable candidate, but I'd make sure he had a chance to turn it down and then I'd go from there.

We can hire a "mediocre" coach later if we can't get a big gun. If it comes to that, so be it. But let's don't settle for that unless we strike out trying to go big.
 

BamaHoosier

All-American
Jan 17, 2011
3,614
620
132
Noblesville Indiana
That's a cherry picked statistic and I'd say it's misleading as well. What terrifies me about Crean is what his teams do after he supposedly has a program on track. At Marquette, after his team makes the final four, he follows that up with two 19 win/NIT seasons. That's 19 wins at a mid-major, you'll actually have trouble finding any of these coaches we are bringing up who had a single 19 win season at a mid-major (after theyg got going), much less two in a row. That is very ominous when you consider the low level of competition and that you can recruit instant impact players. He did that at Indiana to, after the mediocre use of talent with the Sweet 16 runs, he followed that up with a 17 win season. That's not good either. We're talking about things that have never happened to coaches like Bruce Pearl (heck Bruce won 15 at Auburn last year, Auburn that's better than any of Crean's first three years at a basketball power), and Gregg Marshall. So, it's not just his slow start, it's not just his regression at Marquette, his failing do anything with a loaded team, or his 17 win season at Indiana, it's the combination that's scary.

So, honestly Crean terrifies me. He only seems capable of having a really good season if he has a lottery pick on his team (and that's a true rarity for Alabama) and even with lottery picks, he's capable of underwhelming. That's why Indiana fans hate him, they had to suffer through some lousy seasons, and then when he was stacked with talent he didn't even make it out of the Sweet 16. At Alabama he'd have seasons where the talent isn't there and his track record indicates he's not going to do well at all in those situations.


I am convinced the only thing holding the Alabama program back is the coaching (said this before the last hire to, also said Alabama should hire a proven coach then as well). Yes, football fixation is an issue. Had Alabama not been so fixated on football, they would already have a very good coach (Bruce Pearl). However, Gregg Marshall checks all the boxes. He's done more than any Alabama coach, ever. He's never shown real regression, he's been to the final four, he's been to NCAA tournament 11 times (at mid-majors), that's as many as Alabama has been in going back to 1990, he's young enough to have a real impact, I believe he's 3-1 against Alabama, and he probably wants a chance to win a championship as badly as Alabama does.

In terms of what level the program is at, Alabama has shown their attendance can be around the top 25, even with Gottfried, they had a program that made it to the Elite 8, and had a #1 ranking once, their coach pay is already top 25, and their athletic program is making so much money they don't know what to do with it all. If they show they are willing to pay this much for a top tier coach, they will have a chance to become a top 10 program, the resources are all there but yes things have to change and that starts with the head coach. Basically, the way I see it if Alabama wants to be a top ten program (and they can be), they have to start acting like one.
That's your opinion, and you are perfectly entitled to it. It is my opinion that you are far too harsh on Crean, and you are cherry picking your own statistics.

You talk about Crean like all of his talent has fallen into his lap, and that's not the case. Mike Davis had his only notable achievement of his career in taking IU to the final 4, and that was a team that was entirely loaded with players from Bob Knight's final years. That is having talent fall into your lap.

Crean on the other hand took over an IU team that was so depleted that they only had 6 scholarship players, and they had to use walkons for significant minutes. One game that year he had to suit up and play a student manager just to get a body on the floor. His first 3 years in the program were miserable because of the crap Sampson pulled.

Yet Crean managed to recruit a very solid team around overlooked superstars like Oladipo and big recruits like Zeller. Yes they had the talent to go all the way, and they underachieved. Even with that said, not many coaches could have rebuilt IU from an 8 win team, to the powerhouse they turned out to be 3 years later.

You say he doesn't maintain success. This year most IU fans didn't expect to make the tourney. It was supposed to be a rebuilding year were they wouldn't be competitive. Even though they backed their way into the tourney, they are still there, and they beat some damn good teams in the process.

Crean isn't very well liked in Indiana. We are still very much within the shadow of Bob Knight though. Most of the big alumni were there when Knight still was, and so any coach will be held to that standard. It's no different than the 80s were for us following Coach Bryant. No coach will be liked until they are a perennially winning B1G championships and making it to the elite 8.

I don't for a minute believe that Crean will take the Bama job, but I would love it if he did. He is consistent in proving he can build a team. He's passionate, intense, energetic, and he represents his team well. He has recruited top flight talent everywhere he has been, and he would be as good of a coach as anyone in the SEC.

(Also, take this for what it's worth, but rumor here in Indy is that if Crean leaves IU will put the full court press on Billy Donovan. Supposedly there has been mutual interest. There's no inside info there, but that's the rumor on the streets.)
 

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