Sidebar

France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, both recorders found

TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,624
39,849
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

Although I can't wrap my mind around the concept of killing 150 out of pique, I'd dearly love to hear the audio of the co-pilot's "curt" replies to the captain's routine spiel. I believe something similar happened with the Malaysian airliner...
 
A

AV8N

1st Team
Sep 18, 2013
751
0
35
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

I would imagine we can rule out hypoxia, as the captain would not have been able to try to take out the door if the cabin had decompressed. Most aircraft I've seen have a keypad to open the flight deck door, but maybe there is an override switch that prevents someone on the outside from opening the door even with the proper code. Of course, setting that switch when there's not a known emergency (e.g., hijacker threatening FA to enter the code) seems like the copilot didn't want the pilot letting himself back in.

We will probably learn a lot more about the copilot than we ever wanted to know, as I am sure they are digging into his background pretty deeply right now.
 
92tide

92tide

TideFans Legend
May 9, 2000
58,308
45,148
287
54
East Point, Ga, USA
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

AV8N said:
I would imagine we can rule out hypoxia, as the captain would not have been able to try to take out the door if the cabin had decompressed. Most aircraft I've seen have a keypad to open the flight deck door, but maybe there is an override switch that prevents someone on the outside from opening the door even with the proper code. Of course, setting that switch when there's not a known emergency (e.g., hijacker threatening FA to enter the code) seems like the copilot didn't want the pilot letting himself back in.

We will probably learn a lot more about the copilot than we ever wanted to know, as I am sure they are digging into his background pretty deeply right now.
Click to expand...
according to the report i heard this morning, that is the case and the door was set to that mode. but i was driving and only marginally paying attention to all of the discussion
 
Bamaro

Bamaro

TideFans Legend
Oct 19, 2001
26,619
10,714
287
Jacksonville, Md USA
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

92tide said:
according to the report i heard this morning, that is the case and the door was set to that mode. but i was driving and only marginally paying attention to all of the discussion
Click to expand...
That is true and it is an anti hijacking measure.
 
TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,624
39,849
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

AV8N said:
I would imagine we can rule out hypoxia, as the captain would not have been able to try to take out the door if the cabin had decompressed. Most aircraft I've seen have a keypad to open the flight deck door, but maybe there is an override switch that prevents someone on the outside from opening the door even with the proper code. Of course, setting that switch when there's not a known emergency (e.g., hijacker threatening FA to enter the code) seems like the copilot didn't want the pilot letting himself back in.

We will probably learn a lot more about the copilot than we ever wanted to know, as I am sure they are digging into his background pretty deeply right now.
Click to expand...
Flight rules here specify that, when one pilot leaves, another member of the flight crew take his place, so there're always two warm bodies in the cockpit. It's not just for situations like this; it's for medical emergencies also. I don't know know about German/European rules, but I have a friend who works for Lufthansa cargo and I'm going to ask her. 92, you are correct...
 
Bamaro

Bamaro

TideFans Legend
Oct 19, 2001
26,619
10,714
287
Jacksonville, Md USA
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

TIDE-HSV said:
Flight rules here specify that, when one pilot leaves, another member of the flight crew take his place, so there're always two warm bodies in the cockpit. It's not just for situations like this; it's for medical emergencies also. I don't know know about German/European rules, but I have a friend who works for Lufthansa cargo and I'm going to ask her. 92, you are correct...
Click to expand...
FWIW, its being reported that: (a) Lufthansa has no such rule or (b) there is a rule but it is left up to the pilots discretion
 
Catfish

Catfish

Hall of Fame
Oct 11, 2005
6,566
2
45
60
Birmingham
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

Bamaro said:
FWIW, its being reported that: (a) Lufthansa has no such rule or (b) there is a rule but it is left up to the pilots discretion
Click to expand...
In either case, there is, effectively, no rule.
 
Gr8hope

Gr8hope

All-American
Nov 10, 2010
3,408
1
60
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

Displaced Bama Fan said:
Pathetic. Kill yourself if it's that bad, don't kill 150 as well.
Click to expand...
Agree, can't imagine what would cause someone to do something so horrendous.
The reports are stating he had to intentionally lock out the other pilot and set the plane to crash.
 
Bamaro

Bamaro

TideFans Legend
Oct 19, 2001
26,619
10,714
287
Jacksonville, Md USA
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

Catfish said:
In either case, there is, effectively, no rule.
Click to expand...
True. I should also add that the pilot would also have the override code to get in if the co-pilot was incapacitated and unable to open the door. Once the code is keyed in a signal goes off in the cockpit and the door will unlock in 30 seconds if the co-pilot does nothing. The person in the cockpit could also, within the 30 seconds, push the lock button to keep the door locked or push the unlock button to unlock it immediately.
 
TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,624
39,849
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

Bamaro said:
FWIW, its being reported that: (a) Lufthansa has no such rule or (b) there is a rule but it is left up to the pilots discretion
Click to expand...
My friend with Lufthansa reports that there is no two person in cockpit rule in intra-European flights. She expects that to change soon...
 
TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,624
39,849
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

Bamaro said:
True. I should also add that the pilot would also have the override code to get in if the co-pilot was incapacitated and unable to open the door. Once the code is keyed in a signal goes off in the cockpit and the door will unlock in 30 seconds if the co-pilot does nothing. The person in the cockpit could also, within the 30 seconds, push the lock button to keep the door locked or push the unlock button to unlock it immediately.
Click to expand...
It's pretty obvious at this point that the co-pilot kept the door locked. Only the "two crew" rule could have prevented it. In that case, at least the co-pilot would have to have taken out the other crew member in order to execute his plan. My understanding of our rule presently is that any crew member could do, even an attendant. I'm not really comfortable with that. If a female of 120 lb or so is put up against the co-pilot, and she has no MA or similar training, how different would the outcome have been?
 
A

AV8N

1st Team
Sep 18, 2013
751
0
35
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

TIDE-HSV said:
It's pretty obvious at this point that the co-pilot kept the door locked. Only the "two crew" rule could have prevented it. In that case, at least the co-pilot would have to have taken out the other crew member in order to execute his plan. My understanding of our rule presently is that any crew member could do, even an attendant. I'm not really comfortable with that. If a female of 120 lb or so is put up against the co-pilot, and she has no MA or similar training, how different would the outcome have been?
Click to expand...
I guess a 120lb female could also be the pilot-in-command, in which case the same theoretical vulnerability would be present the entire flight. Perhaps the two person rule is more about preventing an incapacitated pilot being alone in a locked cockpit, rather than having someone to keep the remaining pilot in check should they snap.
 
TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,624
39,849
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

AV8N said:
I guess a 120lb female could also be the pilot-in-command, in which case the same theoretical vulnerability would be present the entire flight. Perhaps the two person rule is more about preventing an incapacitated pilot being alone in a locked cockpit, rather than having someone to keep the remaining pilot in check should they snap.
Click to expand...
I think that you're absolutely correct. I think the tactic is really aimed at incapacity. However, even a light female might, in this incident, have been able to prevent the co-pilot from repeatedly locking the pilot out...
 
TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,624
39,849
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

AV8N said:
I guess a 120lb female could also be the pilot-in-command, in which case the same theoretical vulnerability would be present the entire flight. Perhaps the two person rule is more about preventing an incapacitated pilot being alone in a locked cockpit, rather than having someone to keep the remaining pilot in check should they snap.
Click to expand...
I had a friend on another site post that, on a domestic flight, the pilot called for an attendant. She went to the front, rolled out the beverage cart to partially block the door. The pilot then exited for the restroom and the attendant took his place and the door was locked until he returned. That would indicate that a main purpose is also to hinder unauthorized access. All seems to be secondary to pilot or co-pilot losing it...
 
Bamaro

Bamaro

TideFans Legend
Oct 19, 2001
26,619
10,714
287
Jacksonville, Md USA
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

The only real question now is motive. Other than a severely misguided suicide, I can think of nothing else unless a passenger was boinking the wife/girlfriend/significant other of the co-pilot and that pushed him over the edge.
 
92tide

92tide

TideFans Legend
May 9, 2000
58,308
45,148
287
54
East Point, Ga, USA
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

TIDE-HSV said:
I had a friend on another site post that, on a domestic flight, the pilot called for an attendant. She went to the front, rolled out the beverage cart to partially block the door. The pilot then exited for the restroom and the attendant took his place and the door was locked until he returned. That would indicate that a main purpose is also to hinder unauthorized access. All seems to be secondary to pilot or co-pilot losing it...
Click to expand...
i routinely see them using the cart to block access, especially on the long haul flights.
 
64met

64met

All-American
Oct 12, 2007
2,539
166
87
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

This isn't suicide, its murder.
 
Bazza

Bazza

TideFans Legend
Oct 1, 2011
35,798
21,534
187
New Smyrna Beach, Florida
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

Aside from the mass murder aspect.......I can't fathom how one could sit in a pilot's seat and just watch as the plane slowly got closer and closer and closer to the mountainous terrain....until it crashed.

You'd have to have some VERY serious mental heath issues to do something like that.
 
Bazza

Bazza

TideFans Legend
Oct 1, 2011
35,798
21,534
187
New Smyrna Beach, Florida
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found

Something made this guy snap.

Anyone else wonder if it's related to a relationship issue?

There's still a lot more to come out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New Posts

Latest threads

TideFans.shop - NEW Stuff!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a> <br /> <!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \--> <p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.

Top Bottom