Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
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France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, both recorders found
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Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
He was. He was being treated for depression. His illness had caused him to be demoted several times during his training. Not confirmed yet, but it's also being reported that he had just broken up with a long-term GF. How many would have boarded that plane, if they knew his condition and background? I'll bet some US airline execs are taking a hard look at their own screening procedures...
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
Seems like something is broken in the system if the doctor can determine him unfit to fly, but is not required to report that to the airline so that they can ensure he doesn't. Sounds like they just gave him a note so he could be excused if he wanted to be, but apparently he decided otherwise.
I wonder if he saw the writing on the wall that his flying career, that he had always wanted, was going to be over once his mental state got reported to his employer. If that seemed imminent, the stress of that may have been what pushed him over the edge.
It's tricky, I guess - you don't want to knowingly put a pilot suffering from something like depression behind the controls, but you also don't want them covering it up (and not being treated for it) and continuing to fly.
Seems like something is broken in the system if the doctor can determine him unfit to fly, but is not required to report that to the airline so that they can ensure he doesn't. Sounds like they just gave him a note so he could be excused if he wanted to be, but apparently he decided otherwise.
I wonder if he saw the writing on the wall that his flying career, that he had always wanted, was going to be over once his mental state got reported to his employer. If that seemed imminent, the stress of that may have been what pushed him over the edge.
It's tricky, I guess - you don't want to knowingly put a pilot suffering from something like depression behind the controls, but you also don't want them covering it up (and not being treated for it) and continuing to fly.
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
This is dead on. There were actually two notes, as I understand it. One was just a general note from his MD saying he was unfit to fly, period. In addition, there was a "sick note" declaring he was unfit to fly on the day of the crash. I agree and had already thought of the angle that his career was basically over, as soon as the real state of his condition came out. To me, the question is how tight are our rules, as well. Is it all just "honor system?"
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
Realizing these are enormously broad brush strokes, but a doctor deciding that a pilot is unfit, yet relying on the pilot himself to notify his employer seems a bit, well, unGerman.
This surprises me. Continental Europeans do not seem nearly as concerned with personal privacy as Anglo-Saxons. Continentals seem to be more willing to err on the side of safety for society.
Realizing these are enormously broad brush strokes, but a doctor deciding that a pilot is unfit, yet relying on the pilot himself to notify his employer seems a bit, well, unGerman.
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
I think you're being misled, as I have been, with the German past. I'd say that they're much more privacy-obsessed now. They are the ones leading the charge against the NSA and Google and Microsoft. Nevertheless, there has to be a balance between public safety and privacy concerns. I'm just afraid we're also on a sort of honor system...
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
I have to wonder if mental ailments are treated differently than physical ones for some reason. In my job, if I don't pass a Class III FAA physical, I can't fly even as an observer. Pilots have to pass a more stringent Class I annually. But these exams don't cover mental health. There aren't - to my knowledge - any aviation medical examiners who determine if someone is mentally fit to fly.
If a pilot is having suicidal thoughs or hearing voices, that's every bit as important to his fitness for duty as whether he has high blood pressure or narcolepsy.
I have to wonder if mental ailments are treated differently than physical ones for some reason. In my job, if I don't pass a Class III FAA physical, I can't fly even as an observer. Pilots have to pass a more stringent Class I annually. But these exams don't cover mental health. There aren't - to my knowledge - any aviation medical examiners who determine if someone is mentally fit to fly.
If a pilot is having suicidal thoughs or hearing voices, that's every bit as important to his fitness for duty as whether he has high blood pressure or narcolepsy.
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
Here, for example, if a pilot has to take an SSRI or similar class drug for depression, he had to stand down for a full year. Recently, that was changed to six months. However, that doesn't get to the root of my question - who notifies the FAA or airline? If it has to be self-reported, how many people are just going to give up six months of income? This guy had a known problem and it had delayed his progress in training and we don't even know how many times that happened. If there's not a mandatory HIPAA exception requiring the employer to be automatically added as receiving medical information, then it needs to be enacted. IMO. I don't view this as discriminatory. Public safety always has to rule...
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
If an FAA designated doctor doesn't find you physically fit to fly, you don't get your medical certificate renewed. The airline wouldn't need to know the exact medical reason, just that your status changed. No HIPAA problems there.
But I don't think there is something similar in place for mental issues.
If an FAA designated doctor doesn't find you physically fit to fly, you don't get your medical certificate renewed. The airline wouldn't need to know the exact medical reason, just that your status changed. No HIPAA problems there.
But I don't think there is something similar in place for mental issues.
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
Then that's a huge flaw, not only in Germany, but here also...
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
No, these incidents demand that ALL potential explanations be explored, not just the ones that track with your own knee-jerk reactions. Only then will we HAVE the facts.
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Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
I agree. I just said what I SUSPECTED. An investigation starts and all possibilities are explored. I just get annoyed at certain aspects of the media and govt officials the world over who tie themselves into knots trying to avoid the very mention of Islamic terrorism of even being a possibility. That's all. Sorry if I offended.
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I agree. I just said what I SUSPECTED. An investigation starts and all possibilities are explored. I just get annoyed at certain aspects of the media and govt officials the world over who tie themselves into knots trying to avoid the very mention of Islamic terrorism of even being a possibility. That's all. Sorry if I offended.
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Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
So far, this one really doesn't appear so far to be related to religious or ideological goals. So far, it seems to be related to a troubled kid, possibly looking at the end of his lifelong career goal and, from reports, having lost a girlfriend of some significant period. There was another search today and who knows what will come out? But right now it seems simpler or, JMO, religious motives, etc. would have already been brought out. However, nothing's certain at this time...
So far, this one really doesn't appear so far to be related to religious or ideological goals. So far, it seems to be related to a troubled kid, possibly looking at the end of his lifelong career goal and, from reports, having lost a girlfriend of some significant period. There was another search today and who knows what will come out? But right now it seems simpler or, JMO, religious motives, etc. would have already been brought out. However, nothing's certain at this time...
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
^^^ That's what I am seeing as well ^^^
Check this out:
“He understood that because of his health problems, his big dream of a job at Lufthansa as captain and as a long-haul pilot was practically impossible,” his ex, a 26-year-old flight attendant identified only as Maria W., told Bild.
She also told Bild that he told her, “One day I will do something that will change the whole system, and then all will know my name and remember it.”
Revelations about Lubitz’s battle with depression and a “mental illness” — which he allegedly hid from his employers — came as investigators searched his home for clues about what motivation could have been for deliberately crashing the plane.
A note found in Lubitz’s trash said he was “was declared by a medical doctor unfit to work,” Dusseldorf prosecutor Christoph Kumpa said Friday, according to CNN.
His former girlfriend confirmed to Bild that Lubitz had a “problem” which ultimately led them to split up. She noted that when they spoke about work, “he became upset about the conditions we worked under: too little money, fear of losing the contract, too much pressure.”
He was also plagued by nightmares and would wake up in the middle of the night screaming, “we’re going down,” she added, according to the BBC. He was introverted, she said, and knew how to hide his feelings from the rest of the world.
Maria now understands Lubitz’s eerie prediction that “one day everyone will know my name.”
“I never knew what he meant, but now it makes sense.”
LINK
^^^ That's what I am seeing as well ^^^
Check this out:
“He understood that because of his health problems, his big dream of a job at Lufthansa as captain and as a long-haul pilot was practically impossible,” his ex, a 26-year-old flight attendant identified only as Maria W., told Bild.
She also told Bild that he told her, “One day I will do something that will change the whole system, and then all will know my name and remember it.”
Revelations about Lubitz’s battle with depression and a “mental illness” — which he allegedly hid from his employers — came as investigators searched his home for clues about what motivation could have been for deliberately crashing the plane.
A note found in Lubitz’s trash said he was “was declared by a medical doctor unfit to work,” Dusseldorf prosecutor Christoph Kumpa said Friday, according to CNN.
His former girlfriend confirmed to Bild that Lubitz had a “problem” which ultimately led them to split up. She noted that when they spoke about work, “he became upset about the conditions we worked under: too little money, fear of losing the contract, too much pressure.”
He was also plagued by nightmares and would wake up in the middle of the night screaming, “we’re going down,” she added, according to the BBC. He was introverted, she said, and knew how to hide his feelings from the rest of the world.
Maria now understands Lubitz’s eerie prediction that “one day everyone will know my name.”
“I never knew what he meant, but now it makes sense.”
LINK
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
Not to belittle the severity of this incident but I was thinking about another knee jerk reaction that is likely to come out of this. This suicide / mass killing surpasses any that I can think of by several times over. We we ban airline travel? Will green tipped planes be removed from American service? Will planes that look like they can be crashed into a plane be discriminated against? What about black planes in general?
I worried that I will have to drive everywhere now.
Not to belittle the severity of this incident but I was thinking about another knee jerk reaction that is likely to come out of this. This suicide / mass killing surpasses any that I can think of by several times over. We we ban airline travel? Will green tipped planes be removed from American service? Will planes that look like they can be crashed into a plane be discriminated against? What about black planes in general?
I worried that I will have to drive everywhere now.
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
Gee, if somebody I knew was a pilot and making statements like those and acting like that, I think I might let somebody know before the did something crazy, like maybe, I don't know, flying a plane full of people into the side of a mountain.
Gee, if somebody I knew was a pilot and making statements like those and acting like that, I think I might let somebody know before the did something crazy, like maybe, I don't know, flying a plane full of people into the side of a mountain.
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
Some people don't want to 'get involved' I guess.
I agree.
Some people don't want to 'get involved' I guess.
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
No, the solution will be remove the pilots, automation has made them unnecessary.
Re: France crash: Germanwings plane obliterated, data recorder found
Until they get hacked.
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