150 years ago today, Lee's surrender at Appomattox

Wow, seems like yesterday.

I read a very interesting book last year: Stealing Lincoln's Body. It had a lot of good info on Lincoln's assassination, formation of the Secret Service, counterfeiting from colonial times until after Lincoln's death, and of course the attempt to steal Lincoln's body. IIRC, the last man to see Lincoln's face died in 1963.

Also, this month's National Geographic has an interesting article about Lincoln.

I had not put together that this was the 150th anniversary of the end of the Civil War. I was in the fifth grade on the 100th anniversary and remember that well. Thanks, Bamaro, for the heads up.

Over the years, between this little event, the Titanic, Waco (koresh), OKC Bombing, the Texas City Explosion in 1947, Civil War started and ended, Lincoln's death, West, Texas explosion, Doolittle's Tokyo raid in WWII, UofA founded, Bay of Pigs Apollo 13 exploded, Mississippi flood in 1927, Boston marathon bombed, these two weeks were some of the most historic events in US and world history.

One of my great great grandfathers was in the III Corps Artillery. Present for roll call on the evening of April 8th. Was not on the list of the Confederate soldiers given a parole slip at Appomattox starting on April 9th. He was from two counties over, so I gather he just said "To heck with waiting for a parole slip. I can be at home tomorrow night if I step out." So, apparently he just took off on his own. I assume he took the oath later in his home county.

History channel just started a series called "Blood and Glory, The Civil War In Color." I watched the first two hour episode I think Tuesday. Anyway, it was real good. It was about the lead up to the war but the best part is how they show all the old really clear photographs of the war in color. Really amazing!

150 Years ago, Robert E. Lee issued his farewell to the ANV.

Marse Robert said:

Headquarters, Army of Northern Virginia, 10th April 1865.
General Order No. 9
After four years of arduous service marked by unsurpassed courage and fortitude, the Army of Northern Virginia has been compelled to yield to overwhelming numbers and resources.
I need not tell the survivors of so many hard fought battles, who have remained steadfast to the last, that I have consented to the result from no distrust of them.
But feeling that valour and devotion could accomplish nothing that could compensate for the loss that must have attended the continuance of the contest, I have determined to avoid the useless sacrifice of those whose past services have endeared them to their countrymen.
By the terms of the agreement, officers and men can return to their homes and remain until exchanged. You will take with you the satisfaction that proceeds from the consciousness of duty faithfully performed, and I earnestly pray that a merciful God will extend to you his blessing and protection.
With an unceasing admiration of your constancy and devotion to your Country, and a grateful remembrance of your kind and generous consideration for myself, I bid you an affectionate farewell.
— R. E. Lee, General, General Order No. 9

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Tidewater said:

150 Years ago, Robert E. Lee issued his farewell to the ANV.

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Do they make men like this anymore? I seems not or if they do they don't make it to a large stage. Sad. Sad that the civil war took many such men from both sides. What an experience it would have been to sit around a camp fire w/Lee, Jackson, Mosby, Stuart, etc. Sad that we so seldom get such leaders these days. Maybe the modern environment just does not allow the building of such leaders?

dvldog said:

Do they make men like this anymore? I seems not or if they do they don't make it to a large stage. Sad. Sad that the civil war took many such men from both sides. What an experience it would have been to sit around a camp fire w/Lee, Jackson, Mosby, Stuart, etc. Sad that we so seldom get such leaders these days. Maybe the modern environment just does not allow the building of such leaders?

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Such leaders were usually built starting in their childhood years. Look around you at what has become of the family environment these days and you'll have your answer. Such men (and women) are still being built. They are just fewer and farther in between.

TideEngineer08 said:

Such leaders were usually built starting in their childhood years. Look around you at what has become of the family environment these days and you'll have your answer. Such men (and women) are still being built. They are just fewer and farther in between.

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At the risk of sounding immodest, I would suggest that the Virginia Military Institute (and to a lesser extent, the Virginia Polytechnic Institute) are places where such young men and women are being built.

Tidewater said:

At the risk of sounding immodest, I would suggest that the Virginia Military Institute (and to a lesser extent, the Virginia Polytechnic Institute) are places where such young men and women are being built.

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I agree. And there are other places. I also should have added the education system's decay as another reason (other than the decay of the family).

It used to be the mission of schools to create young men and women ready to take on and conquer the world. Too often, nowadays, the mission is to create leftist robots.

TideEngineer08 said:

I agree. And there are other places. I also should have added the education system's decay as another reason (other than the decay of the family).

It used to be the mission of schools to create young men and women ready to take on and conquer the world. Too often, nowadays, the mission is to create leftist robots.

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Victor Davis Hanson recently wrote an article in NRO in which he wrote, in part:

Should students remain perennial weepy adolescents, requiring constant sheltering, solicitousness, and self-esteem building?

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I think the question answers itself.

A trend on college campuses today to to put a rainbow-colored triangle outside an office door to declare that office a "safe zone" in which students, (presumably gay ones) can be protected from the horrors of free speech out in the rest of the world.

Outside my office was a sign with a black square and the message "Unsafe Zone. If you want me to coddle you and tell you your sexuality is okay, my message is, 'Grow up.'"

Tidewater I'm not trying to hijack, but can you give me a quick top three list, of what it would have taken for the south to win the war? If you don't feel like it I understand.

BamaPokerplayer said:

Tidewater I'm not trying to hijack, but can you give me a quick top three list, of what it would have taken for the south to win the war? If you don't feel like it I understand.

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Wow. The south winning was always a long shot.
Okay, here's my best guess:
1. Stonewall Jackson does not get killed at Chancellorsville, the ANV wins at Gettysburg, either (a) takes Philadelphia* or (b) isolates Washington's rail connections with the rest of the US, the Federal government moves to New York. (This latter one would have been easier and more dramatic.) The embarrassment of this finally moves France and Great Britain to offer their good offices to secure a ceasefire and negotiations.
2. British recognition. (We have a long border with Canada, and they have really big, really good navy). This one would be tough, since the British Prime Minister would have been loathe to recognize a slaveholding republic. If, in 1861, the Confederates had heeded Patrick Cleburne’s advise and offered to free the slaves in exchange for British recognition and assistance, John Bull might have taken the bait.
3. John Wilkes Booth gets really ticked off in 1862, not 1865. Lincoln's security was poor through most of the war, getting only marginally better late in the conflict. Problem is, who knows how effective Hannibal Hamlin would have been as commander-in-chief? Would Hamlin have had the stone to bench Little Mac? With Little Mac in command of the AoP, the war could have dragged on until northerners got tired of it. Lincoln was quite poor in 1861-2, but by 1864 was functioning pretty well as C-in-C. He learned on the job. As an aside, Lincoln’s murder in 1865 was a catastrophe for the South, because only Lincoln had the clout to hold off the Radical a-holes in Congress (evil, hateful men like Thaddeus Stevens, Edwin Stanton and John Sherman). Johnson never had any clout with the Radicals and they beat him like a rented mule.

All of these were long shots.


* In 1864, looking back at the previous year, Lee told Harry Heth, “The legitimate fruits of a victory, if gained in Pennsylvania, could be more readily reaped than on our own soil. We would have been in a few days' march of Philadelphia, and the occupation of that city would have given us peace.” (S.H.S.P., volume 4, pg. 153.) Plus, Lee’s army brought 600 feet of pontoon bridging with them enough bridging to cross the Susquehanna River (O.R. XXV, Part 2, pg. 735).

Doomed by logistics or lack thereof.

dvldog said:

Doomed by logistics or lack thereof.

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Certainly a big part of it.
I read an account of a Georgia soldier who arrived at the Federal supply depot at Manassa's Junction in August 1862. He found ice cream.

Let that sink in for a second.

Ice cream. Army supply depot. August. In an era before refrigeration.

That is how well supplied the Yankees were.

Tidewater said:

Certainly a big part of it.
I read an account of a Georgia soldier who arrived at the Federal supply depot at Manassa's Junction in August 1862. He found ice cream.

Let that sink in for a second.

Ice cream. Army supply depot. August. In an era before refrigeration.

That is how well supplied the Yankees were.

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Yankee could have used the cream dragging tail back to DC.

Tidewater said:

Certainly a big part of it.
I read an account of a Georgia soldier who arrived at the Federal supply depot at Manassa's Junction in August 1862. He found ice cream.

Let that sink in for a second.

Ice cream. Army supply depot. August. In an era before refrigeration.

That is how well supplied the Yankees were.

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Interesting, considering the number of Generals Lincoln went through before he finally got Grant off his duff.

Thanks TW.

Letter from a British scholar, John Lord Acton, to R. E. Lee after the war.

Bologna
November 4, 1866
Sir,
… I saw in State Rights the only availing check upon the absolutism of the sovereign will, and secession filled me with hope, not as the destruction but as the redemption of Democracy. The institutions of your Republic have not exercised on the old world the salutary and liberating influence which ought to have belonged to them, by reason of those defects and abuses of principle which the Confederate Constitution was expressly and wisely calculated to remedy. I believed that the example of that great Reform would have blessed all the races of mankind by establishing true freedom purged of the native dangers and disorders of Republics. Therefore I deemed that you were fighting the battles of our liberty, our progress, and our civilization; and I mourn for the stake which was lost at Richmond more deeply than I rejoice over that which was saved at Waterloo.
…Meantime I remain, with sentiments stronger than respect, Sir,
Your faithful servant
John Dalberg Acton

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To which Lee responded:

Lexington, Vir.,
15 Dec. 1866
Sir,
… while I have considered the preservation of the constitutional power of the General Government to be the foundation of our peace and safety at home and abroad, I yet believe that the maintenance of the rights and authority reserved to the states and to the people, not only essential to the adjustment and balance of the general system, but the safeguard to the continuance of a free government. I consider it as the chief source of stability to our political system, whereas the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded it. … The South has contended only for the supremacy of the constitution, and the just administration of the laws made in pursuance to it. Virginia to the last made great efforts to save the union, and urged harmony and compromise. Senator Douglass, in his remarks upon the compromise bill recommended by the committee of thirteen in 1861, stated that every member from the South, including Messrs. Toombs and Davis, expressed their willingness to accept the proposition of Senator Crittenden from Kentucky, as a final settlement of the controversy, if sustained by the Republican party, and that the only difficulty in the way of an amicable adjustment was with the Republican party. Who then is responsible for the war? …
With sentiments of great respect, I remain your obt. servant,
R.E. Lee

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