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Another "Cop Kills a Guy" thread

jthomas666

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clicky

OK, The cops are chasing this guy (about to be arrested for attempting to sell a gun to an undercover cop), he gets out of his car and keeps running, cops tackle him, are in the process of cuffing him...

...and a SEVENTY-THREE YEAR-OLD reserve deputy comes up to try and subdue the guy with his taser.

But he accidentally pulls his firearm, and not noticing that he has a pistol in his hand and not a taser, shoots the guy in the back. The guy subsequently dies at the hospital.

The other cops show utter indifference to the shooting, as one cop kneels on the guy's head. I can kind of chalk that part up to adrenaline, as it looks to have been a crazy situation.

Video (from police body cam) at the link. The original video (which I viewed on another site) has some NSFW language; I'm guessing that the language has been bleeped out at the above link, as it's an NBC affiliate, but work filters won't let me confirm.
 
uafan4life

uafan4life

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jthomas666 said:
Charged w/ 2nd degree manslaughter; 2-4 years in the state pen or 1 year in county lockup. Or they could let him off w/ a $1000 fine, which would make things REALLY entertaining.
Click to expand...

I think the manslaughter charge is appropriate, given the circumstances and that it was obviously not done intentionally.

Also, given both the circumstances and his age, I think it's fair to give him a somewhat lighter sentence but not merely a fine and/or a suspended sentence; he needs to do some jail time. While it was a simple mistake made with good intentions, simple mistakes with major repercussions should still have major consequences regardless of who it is that made the mistake.
 
jthomas666

jthomas666

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uafan4life said:
I think the manslaughter charge is appropriate, given the circumstances and that it was obviously not done intentionally.

Also, given both the circumstances and his age, I think it's fair to give him a somewhat lighter sentence but not merely a fine and/or a suspended sentence; he needs to do some jail time. While it was a simple mistake made with good intentions, simple mistakes with major repercussions should still have major consequences regardless of who it is that made the mistake.
Click to expand...
The department might also want to take a look at its policy of making large donors deputies.
 
bamacon

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Short of a public execution of the guy within hours nothing seems to be enough. They are still demanding "justice" in the SC incident. What the hell else can they do?

I wonder if white officers shot any white suspects this year. Haven't heard about any. Wonder why?


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bamacon

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One thing that shocked me and that I bet will change is that the federal govt does not have or keep an official count of the number of people who are shot or killed by the police. Any data a state sends is voluntary not reporting that is mandatory. I'm guessing legislation will be introduced to fix that. We should at least have the data to look at.


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tide power fan

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bamacon said:
Short of a public execution of the guy within hours nothing seems to be enough. They are still demanding "justice" in the SC incident. What the hell else can they do?

I wonder if white officers shot any white suspects this year. Haven't heard about any. Wonder why?


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Click to expand...

For sure one in Fla around Daytona, Volusia County.
 
uafan4life

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Bamaro said:
Yeah, it seems clear that this guy had no business being a LEO with a gun.
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I have to disagree with you there, for two reasons.

First, our nation was founded on several concepts strongly tied to this situation which gives citizens the right, if not in some instances the responsibility, to act as law enforcement officers if and when the need arises.

There has arisen an attitude that condemns such behavior, often referencing words and phrases like "The Wild West", "vigilante justice" or vigilantism, and "lynch mobs" or posses.

While vigilantism and lynch mobs - where an individual or group of individuals act not just as law enforcement officers but also as judge and jury - are morally, ethically, and wrong that does not apply to individuals or groups of individuals who are simply acting as law enforcement officers when the need arises, regardless of whether or not they have been "deputized".

Individual citizens and posses acting as LEOs were often necessary in the "Wild West" and there was nothing morally, ethically, or legally wrong with them doing so - as long as they only acted as LEOs and not also as judge and jury.

And there is nothing wrong with them doing so today, either, if the need arises.


Second, this guy had more experience than you're probably assuming:

Bates, who worked as a police officer for a year in the 1960s, had been a reserve deputy since 2008, with 300 hours of training and 1,100 hours of community policing experience, according to the Sheriff's Office.
Click to expand...
 
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Bamaro

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uafan4life said:
I have to disagree with you there, for two reasons.

First, our nation was founded on several concepts strongly tied to this situation which gives citizens the right, if not in some instances the responsibility, to act as law enforcement officers if and when the need arises.

There has arisen an attitude that condemns such behavior, often referencing words and phrases like "The Wild West", "vigilante justice" or vigilantism, and "lynch mobs" or posses.

While vigilantism and lynch mobs - where an individual or group of individuals act not just as law enforcement officers but also as judge and jury - are morally, ethically, and wrong that does not apply to individuals or groups of individuals who are simply acting as law enforcement officers when the need arises, regardless of whether or not they have been "deputized".

Individual citizens and posses acting as LEOs were often necessary in the "Wild West" and there was nothing morally, ethically, or legally wrong with them doing so - as long as they only acted as LEOs and not also as judge and jury.

And there is nothing wrong with them doing so today, either, if the need arises.


Second, this guy had more experience than you're probably assuming:
Click to expand...
Results speak for themselves.
 
uafan4life

uafan4life

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Bamaro said:
Results speak for themselves.
Click to expand...
Touche. :)

Of course, I'm sure there have been police officers with years or even decades of experience who've made a similar mistake.

A single mistake is not necessarily a good enough reason - in and of itself - to scrap a policy or program.
 
bamacon

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If you are doing a sting where you are buying FIREARMS illegally I would think you would assume the suspect might be armed. That said, doesn't a far more advanced team do these types of stings and raids? Just asking because you see most of these depts. with violent offender task forces being used whenever they think weapons will be present or used potentially.
 
dWarriors88

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To whomever believes the department should no longer allow "reserve" officers, I don't think you are looking at this the right way. The reason for reserve officers is to allow the department to expand its force without affecting their budget. The reserve officers are trained to the same standards as the full time deputies. The department utilizes these deputies in variety of situations ranging from community relations, bike patrol, and large events to mounted patrol for search and rescues in rough terrain. Many (read: not all) are qualified for 'Advanced Reserves' which comes with the same authority as full time deputies. Advanced reserves are able to be placed in situations to help with sting operations like the one that ended up with the unintentional shooting death of Eric Harris. I live here in Tulsa, so you guys can say what you want, IMO I could care less that another criminal, an ex con, is permanently off the street. The last thing I want is a man running around the ghetto here selling STOLEN guns to 16, 17 year stupid kids down the street from my own neighborhood.
 
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