Could Religious Zealots Determine 2016 Presidential Outcome?

She is scary. Shows that even a nutcase can be elected to the Senate. Thank goodness she's not in the Senate now. We all need to make sure than there is Armageddon in the Middle east so that the prophecies can be fulfilled.

seebell said:

She is scary. Shows that even a nutcase can be elected to the Senate. Thank goodness she's not in the Senate now. We all need to make sure than there is Armageddon in the Middle east so that the prophecies can be fulfilled.

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Ok, I know you're being sarcastic. But Bachmann is being serious, as are so many others who share that opinion. Here's the thing. If the "end times" are real, and if Jesus is real and God is real and everything is as the Bible says it is, then there is no way human beings can determine the outcome of said events. Barack Obama isn't hastening the second coming of Jesus Christ, tribulation, and the rapture. Things will happen as they were always going to happen and we aren't going to stop it or speed it up in any way.

I know some of you don't believe, aren't religious, are atheists, etc. And so all of this is a bunch of nonsense to you. But to believers, I've never understood this thought process of "oh no, we are hastening the coming of Christ." At least, that's JMO.

TideEngineer08 said:

Ok, I know you're being sarcastic. But Bachmann is being serious, as are so many others who share that opinion. Here's the thing. If the "end times" are real, and if Jesus is real and God is real and everything is as the Bible says it is, then there is no way human beings can determine the outcome of said events. Barack Obama isn't hastening the second coming of Jesus Christ, tribulation, and the rapture. Things will happen as they were always going to happen and we aren't going to stop it or speed it up in any way.

I know some of you don't believe, aren't religious, are atheists, etc. And so all of this is a bunch of nonsense to you. But to believers, I've never understood this thought process of "oh no, we are hastening the coming of Christ." At least, that's JMO.

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i am a christian and i don't buy any of the end times stuff

92tide said:

i am a christian and i don't buy any of the end times stuff

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The end comes for everyone sooner or later! The reason Iran wants nuclear weapons is simple and I don't blame them. You got nukes people leave you alone! Not even the U.S will attack! She ain't got a chance for the White House thankfully! Where is Sarah Palin when you need her?

92tide said:

i am a christian and i don't buy any of the end times stuff

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I'm not sold on a lot of aspects of the belief myself. Although I do believe some without doubt.

Anyway, my point was, I don't understand this blaming Obama for hastening it. Sort of the same way folks used to (many probably still do) blame Jews for killing Jesus. If you believe Jesus is who he said he was, then he was going to die that way no matter what. It was pre-ordained.

I've digressed too much. I hope Bachmann comes nowhere near the presidency, and I don't believe she will.

TideEngineer08 said:

I'm not sold on a lot of aspects of the belief myself. Although I do believe some without doubt.

Anyway, my point was, I don't understand this blaming Obama for hastening it. Sort of the same way folks used to (many probably still do) blame Jews for killing Jesus. If you believe Jesus is who he said he was, then he was going to die that way no matter what. It was pre-ordained.

I've digressed too much. I hope Bachmann comes nowhere near the presidency, and I don't believe she will.

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i fully agree with your point.

TideEngineer08 said:

I'm not sold on a lot of aspects of the belief myself. Although I do believe some without doubt.

Anyway, my point was, I don't understand this blaming Obama for hastening it. Sort of the same way folks used to (many probably still do) blame Jews for killing Jesus. If you believe Jesus is who he said he was, then he was going to die that way no matter what. It was pre-ordained.

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Premillennialists have been embracing this belief for over a century and a half.
Abolitionists and Prohibitionists believed that the elimination of these sins would precipitate the Second Coming. This gave their adoption of extremist tactics all the sanction it needed: "So what if we murdered a few people. We're trying to bring about the Second Coming."

Specifically to the title of this thread, no mainstream and very few fringe groups (wherever you want to place "Religious Zealots") can be dismissed when considering the effect on the "2016 Presidential Outcome". They all have their effect to some extent or another.

TideEngineer08 said:

I'm not sold on a lot of aspects of the belief myself. Although I do believe some without doubt.

Anyway, my point was, I don't understand this blaming Obama for hastening it. Sort of the same way folks used to (many probably still do) blame Jews for killing Jesus. If you believe Jesus is who he said he was, then he was going to die that way no matter what. It was pre-ordained.

I've digressed too much. I hope Bachmann comes nowhere near the presidency, and I don't believe she will.

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92tide said:

i fully agree with your point.

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Me too.

I would add, when someone tells me that something was hastening the end of times after saying something to that effect, I normally say "if I am wrong, then OK, I am ready."

As to the point of the thread. Religious beliefs, or lack thereof almost always have an impact in how leaders are chosen. Zealots are almost always the vocal ones.

She would not be a choice I could easily embrace at practically any level for many reasons outside of these beliefs. But, I will go there for a single statement. Having a middle east policy based on premillenialism and protecting against or hastening the end of times is as problematic as ISIS.

She's not that hawt.

GrayTide said:

This thread did not mean to imply she would be a candidate, but rather that people with this type of hardcore belief will not be helpful to the Republican efforts to defeat Clinton.

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Oh yes, and I certainly agree with you. It's going to make it near impossible for a Republican victory, IMO. We'll see.

GrayTide said:

This thread did not mean to imply she would be a candidate, but rather that people with this type of hardcore belief will not be helpful to the Republican efforts to defeat Clinton.

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At this point in time, I don't think they cause any more problems for Republicans than zealots cause for Democrats. We are pretty polarized right now and even the middle seems to be pretty divided. It will obviously have an effect as any significantly large group of zealots pulling candidates toward their position tend to.

As for Clinton, I think she in particular has as many or more problem pullers as the Republicans in general do right now. Once the campaigns get started in earnest we will get a better idea of whether or not particular core constituencies cause a general election problem for candidates that are garnering support. I just don't see the referenced group being a core problem.

I am not worried at all about Clinton right now. I personally don't see her making it out of the primary with all of her baggage.

they will certainly help determine the Republican candidate

and no, Bachman is not Hot, unless you are into crazy eyes

TideEngineer08 said:

Ok, I know you're being sarcastic. But Bachmann is being serious, as are so many others who share that opinion. Here's the thing. If the "end times" are real, and if Jesus is real and God is real and everything is as the Bible says it is, then there is no way human beings can determine the outcome of said events. Barack Obama isn't hastening the second coming of Jesus Christ, tribulation, and the rapture. Things will happen as they were always going to happen and we aren't going to stop it or speed it up in any way.

I know some of you don't believe, aren't religious, are atheists, etc. And so all of this is a bunch of nonsense to you. But to believers, I've never understood this thought process of "oh no, we are hastening the coming of Christ." At least, that's JMO.

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A great number of Christians would disagree with you TE08. Google "hastening the rapture". Many believe that the Second Coming can be hastened. Just requires that all parts of the Prophecy be fulfilled. Rebuilding the Temple is a biggie that is left to do. No wonder so many evangelicals were happy when Israel took control of Jerusalem.

I am an agnostic and I don't consider the "hastening" to be non sense. Those beliefs scare me in a way that nonsense never could.

If the second coming is a good thing believers should look forward to it. Thanks Obama?

This is a relevant article from 2004. http://grist.org/article/scherer-christian/

Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land — of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ,” writes reconstructionist George Grant. Christian dominion will be achieved by ending the separation of church and state, replacing U.S. democracy with a theocracy ruled by Old Testament law, and cutting all government social programs, instead turning that work over to Christian churches

DeLay is also a self-declared member of the Christian Zionists, an End-Time faction numbering 20 million Americans. Christian Zionists believe that the 1948 creation of the state of Israel marked the first event in what author Hal Lindsey calls the “countdown to Armageddon” and they are committed to making that doomsday clock tick faster, speeding Christ’s return.
In 2002, DeLay visited pastor John Hagee’s Cornerstone Church. Hagee preached a fiery message as simple as it was horrifying: “The war between America and Iraq is the gateway to the Apocalypse!” he said, urging his followers to support the war, perhaps in order to bring about the Second Coming. After Hagee finished, DeLay rose to second the motion. “Ladies and gentlemen,” he said, “what has been spoken here tonight is the truth from God.”

Bachman is just one of many!

seebell said:

A great number of Christians would disagree with you TE08. Google "hastening the rapture". Many believe that the Second Coming can be hastened. Just requires that all parts of the Prophecy be fulfilled. Rebuilding the Temple is a biggie that is left to do. No wonder so many evangelicals were happy when Israel took control of Jerusalem.

I am an agnostic and I don't consider the "hastening" to be non sense. Those beliefs scare me in a way that nonsense never could.

If the second coming is a good thing believers should look forward to it. Thanks Obama?

This is a relevant article from 2004. http://grist.org/article/scherer-christian/

Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land — of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ,” writes reconstructionist George Grant. Christian dominion will be achieved by ending the separation of church and state, replacing U.S. democracy with a theocracy ruled by Old Testament law, and cutting all government social programs, instead turning that work over to Christian churches

DeLay is also a self-declared member of the Christian Zionists, an End-Time faction numbering 20 million Americans. Christian Zionists believe that the 1948 creation of the state of Israel marked the first event in what author Hal Lindsey calls the “countdown to Armageddon” and they are committed to making that doomsday clock tick faster, speeding Christ’s return.
In 2002, DeLay visited pastor John Hagee’s Cornerstone Church. Hagee preached a fiery message as simple as it was horrifying: “The war between America and Iraq is the gateway to the Apocalypse!” he said, urging his followers to support the war, perhaps in order to bring about the Second Coming. After Hagee finished, DeLay rose to second the motion. “Ladies and gentlemen,” he said, “what has been spoken here tonight is the truth from God.”

Bachman is just one of many!

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i had more than a few family members that would say with a straight face that the iraq war was fulfilling biblical prophesy. apparently this particular prophesy has been being fulfilled for a while as my infamous bircher uncle had vhs tapes (this was 2 years ago at christmas) he was willing to share that proved it.

seebell said:

A great number of Christians would disagree with you TE08. Google "hastening the rapture". Many believe that the Second Coming can be hastened. Just requires that all parts of the Prophecy be fulfilled. Rebuilding the Temple is a biggie that is left to do. No wonder so many evangelicals were happy when Israel took control of Jerusalem.

I am an agnostic and I don't consider the "hastening" to be non sense. Those beliefs scare me in a way that nonsense never could.

If the second coming is a good thing believers should look forward to it. Thanks Obama?

This is a relevant article from 2004. http://grist.org/article/scherer-christian/

Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land — of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ,” writes reconstructionist George Grant. Christian dominion will be achieved by ending the separation of church and state, replacing U.S. democracy with a theocracy ruled by Old Testament law, and cutting all government social programs, instead turning that work over to Christian churches

DeLay is also a self-declared member of the Christian Zionists, an End-Time faction numbering 20 million Americans. Christian Zionists believe that the 1948 creation of the state of Israel marked the first event in what author Hal Lindsey calls the “countdown to Armageddon” and they are committed to making that doomsday clock tick faster, speeding Christ’s return.
In 2002, DeLay visited pastor John Hagee’s Cornerstone Church. Hagee preached a fiery message as simple as it was horrifying: “The war between America and Iraq is the gateway to the Apocalypse!” he said, urging his followers to support the war, perhaps in order to bring about the Second Coming. After Hagee finished, DeLay rose to second the motion. “Ladies and gentlemen,” he said, “what has been spoken here tonight is the truth from God.”

Bachman is just one of many!

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there is a Nebraska Rancher that is actively trying to breed the Red Heifer that is apparently needed to hasten the Apocalypse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_heifer#Christians

and for fun reading look into Ted Cruz's Dad, Rafael and his bit of crazy... He believes his son to be one of the anointed "kings" that will usher in the end times
http://aattp.org/flashback-rafael-c...ponsible-for-the-end-time-transfer-of-wealth/

Jon said:

there is a Nebraska Rancher that is actively trying to breed the Red Heifer that is apparently needed to hasten the Apocalypse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_heifer#Christians

and for fun reading look into Ted Cruz's Dad, Rafael and his bit of crazy... He believes his son to be one of the anointed "kings" that will usher in the end times
http://aattp.org/flashback-rafael-c...ponsible-for-the-end-time-transfer-of-wealth/

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im guessing these guys have dog-eared copies of all of the left behind books