Study concludes shuttered football program at UAB made money

4Q Basket Case

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By the stated accounting logic, it doesn't cost anything to educate anybody.

So everybody should get free tuition at UAB.

Right? :conf3:
 

Mamacalled

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Lets not forget, coaching is everything (see Bama before and after Saban.) UAB had Jimbo Fisher ready to come on board, but the BOT shot it down and forced Neil Callaway down UAB's throat. Had Jimbo been the coach, UAB would have won more games, which would have created more excitement and better fan attendance. BOT is responsible for the state of the program towards the end.
They did have him but could only guarantee one year of his salary and wanted UA to pick up the rest of his contract. That is why they rejected the deal.
 

Mamacalled

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Every time these threads pop up, the first thought to mind is "We're bigger than this".

<sigh> Shows what I know.

Roll Tide and Go Blazers...

I wonder if other flagship state school fans grumble about the goings-on of their little brothers the way ours do. Makes no sense.

By the way, I'm not in the camp of the majority opinion here, nor am I in the UAB tin-foil-hat-wearing crowd.

If they want those teams, and it's not affecting my bottom line, well then go for it. Who in the heck cares? Why do so many on here care enough to post in these threads?

I'll never understand it. I guess it wasn't meant for me to get it.
Most states don't have five FCS schools. In fact, only four states have five or more FCS schools and those are California, Texas Florida one other.... Dang, my mind has gone blank. The fact that those four states have a much larger population allows them to support that many schools and yet somehow people believe that a state with just 6 million people can support five is ridiculous. Michigan, Ohio, New York, Maryland, Louisiana, Washington, Pennsylvania, Colorado, Missouri etc do not have five FCS schools.
How many people do you know that will choose to miss an Alabama or Auburn game to watch and UAB game? No one.
 

BamaPokerplayer

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Lets not forget, coaching is everything (see Bama before and after Saban.) UAB had Jimbo Fisher ready to come on board, but the BOT shot it down and forced Neil Callaway down UAB's throat. Had Jimbo been the coach, UAB would have won more games, which would have created more excitement and better fan attendance.BOT is responsible for the state of the program towards the end.
A few wins would have made little difference; it takes a long time to build a loyal fan base. While not apples to apples, the University of Miami comes to mind.
 

Crimson1967

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I think Michigan has five. Michigan, MSU and Central, Eastern and Western Michigan.


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KrAzY3

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I think Michigan has five. Michigan, MSU and Central, Eastern and Western Michigan.
But, at least one of those shouldn't exist. I can't remember which one (we know which it isn't), but one had to have the city buy up tickets or something along those lines just to keep existing. I'm not even sure how they got away with that, because they still fell under the attendance requirement (the fact is the entire MAC is right at the minimum attendance requirement, so logically a good chunk of those schools shouldn't be allowed in the FBS at all).

Here's 2013 attendance figures:
Michigan 111,592
Michigan State 72,328
Western Michigan 17,347
Central Michigan 13,224
Eastern Michigan 4,051

By the way, UAB (thanks in part to the city of Birmingham buying tickets) had an average attendance of 10,548. Also, South Alabama was just above 15,000, so nice to see them raising the bar for FBS programs... Now, the FBS minimum is 15,000 and that's part of what irritates me. These programs are not even following the rules, not even meeting minimum requires but due to the stated agenda to "level the playing field" even those pitiful standards are not being upheld. This isn't really about UAB so much as it's about how things should be vs. how they actually are. As far as I can tell, Eastern Michigan is still in the FBS and for the life of me I can't figure out why that's even allowed.

But, you see the same thing in the state of Alabama really. The bottom three schools combined attendance doesn't match the second place team. We all know which programs are earning their keep and have support, we also know which are almost certainly a resource drain (their athletic departments sure as losing millions).
 
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Crimson1967

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I read on another board that EMU sells a lot of tickets at a very cheap rate to Pepsi, who has pouring rights at their stadium.

The NCAA has never enforced the attendance rule and never will.


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81usaf92

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One reason I said may be 3 was because of Troy. They seem to be conducting themselves in a more responsible manner. Their athletic department loses less money, their fans seem to be more supportive, their stadium is actually older but they don't whine constantly about it. South Alabama though, that's a perfect example. I attend South, that whole thing was stuffed down our throats. Their attendance is not very good, the support isn't really there (I honestly see more people at class wearing Alabama shirts), but they wanted their own team, and guess who is paying for it? I am, as a student, as a taxpayer in the city, I get to foot the bill to appease a marginal group of people.

.
The problem with arguing against USA is that USA is growing. USA had an average of 17k last year and that was a 10% increase. Mobile is a growing city and joey jones is doing a good job at USA since their creation.

While uab had a big increase in fan support this year, they really haven't fielded good teams. Watson brown didn't keep them relevant and that added with Birmingham being a dying city has really not kept people excited enough to support them.

Also consider apart from auburn having a pharmacy at USA, USA is independent compared to uab who is a satellite to alabama.

I'm not saying USA will be on the same level as ua and au, but I think given a decade they will be equal to Troy. Also look how long it took Troy to get as big as they are in athletics. I remember that they scheduled teams like Nebraska for a few years and then turned the corner in 04 or 05 when they beat mizzou, I think.

USA has gotten considerably bigger in the last 20 years.

mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/writer/jon-solomon/24891415/college-football-attendance-home-crowds-drop-to-lowest-in-14-years
 

Tide1986

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Most states don't have five FCS schools. In fact, only four states have five or more FCS schools and those are California, Texas Florida one other.... Dang, my mind has gone blank. The fact that those four states have a much larger population allows them to support that many schools and yet somehow people believe that a state with just 6 million people can support five is ridiculous. Michigan, Ohio, New York, Maryland, Louisiana, Washington, Pennsylvania, Colorado, Missouri etc do not have five FCS schools.
How many people do you know that will choose to miss an Alabama or Auburn game to watch and UAB game? No one.
As a note, the population of Alabama is less than 5 million.
 

BamaMoon

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While uab had a big increase in fan support this year, they really haven't fielded good teams. Watson brown didn't keep them relevant and that added with Birmingham being a dying city has really not kept people excited enough to support them.
I'm not a UAB apologist, but downtown Birmingham is actually showing great signs of revitilizaiton, especially around the UAB campus. Now, where Legion Field is located is not desirable at all, near UAB the downtown is doing quite well.

Again, not arguing that UAB is financially sound at all, but if they played near downtown it would help their attendence....not sure how much...but it would help.
 

81usaf92

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I'm not a UAB apologist, but downtown Birmingham is actually showing great signs of revitilizaiton, especially around the UAB campus. Now, where Legion Field is located is not desirable at all, near UAB the downtown is doing quite well.

Again, not arguing that UAB is financially sound at all, but if they played near downtown it would help their attendence....not sure how much...but it would help.
The problem is Birmingham has lost it's size since the suburbs (Hoover, homewood,etc) broke off from its control and have flourished. About the biggest thing Birmingham has these days is UAB, but legion field is in one of the worst parts of bham. If uab played there games in Hoover or homewood they might of gotten better attendance, but then again you are competing with bama traffic on 459. Mobile and Huntsville are growing faster than Birmingham is revitalizing and that is a fact. Mobile is far enough from a major university to grow and flourish. In 10 years USA will probably have the support and size of Troy.
 

Moro Creek

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I have not lived in Birmingham for many years but I have a question. Why didn't UAB play their home games in the new baseball facility on Southside? Won't it hold at least 5k people?
 

RTR91

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I have not lived in Birmingham for many years but I have a question. Why didn't UAB play their home games in the new baseball facility on Southside? Won't it hold at least 5k people?
I said the same thing to my dad, a UAB alum. He replied "they still wouldn't be satisfied." He's right. That wouldn't make the UAB folks happy.


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81usaf92

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I have not lived in Birmingham for many years but I have a question. Why didn't UAB play their home games in the new baseball facility on Southside? Won't it hold at least 5k people?
The Hoover met would've probably have been their best option, but 459 would be worse than it usually is when them and bama both have home games on the same day
 

KrAzY3

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Looking at this issue as a whole, it never should have been about whether or not having a football team was feasible. We are talking about athletic departments (at South, Troy and UAB) that lose millions every year. We are talking about public universities which ultimately rely on taxpayers to help make sure their bills are paid. They should have had a compelling reason to start their football programs, not just because they could. In the case of UAB though, they were basically told not to, and they kept going to the UA system with their hand held out expecting to just be given money because they wanted a football program.

In the case of both South Alabama and UAB, there was talk of a on campus stadium. We're talking about an athletic department already losing millions every year, wanting to spend tens of millions more, because once again, they just decided they wanted a football team. Why did they want one? It wasn't the hoards of fans lining up and demanding it, it was born of their sense of entitlement. After all, they can make Alabama and Auburn fans pay for it, so why not?

I'm footing the bill for the South Alabama football program, and someone can tell me all the reasons why they might not be a complete and utter train wreck, and instead settle for a modest failure, but they get rent free use of Ladd Stadium, they get a cut of my tuition, and I didn't want the stupid team! Most people in the city don't care, but hey, a few people did and they had the ability to make it happen. But, let's not fool ourselves, here's the type of thing that goes on. Someone who was immediate family to one of the most prominent figures in South Alabama sports bought, on behalf of their company, an entire section of seats for a game. Now think about that, the interest was so low that South Alabama was willing to let someone buy up a whole section, and that's how programs like that can claim even the modest attendance they do. It's all a joke.

The thing is, yes the NCAA should do their job and eliminate teams below 15K in attendance (notice the media didn't even allude to this?). But, just because a program like Troy, or South Alabama is barely above the minimum doesn't mean they deserve a pat on their back. Given the implications of Title IX, they're still almost certainly losing money, they're still ultimately having a detrimental effect. The state has enough programs without propping up these wanna bes, and that I'm sure is the same for other states like Michigan and so on.
 

81usaf92

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Looking at this issue as a whole, it never should have been about whether or not having a football team was feasible. We are talking about athletic departments (at South, Troy and UAB) that lose millions every year. We are talking about public universities which ultimately rely on taxpayers to help make sure their bills are paid. They should have had a compelling reason to start their football programs, not just because they could. In the case of UAB though, they were basically told not to, and they kept going to the UA system with their hand held out expecting to just be given money because they wanted a football program.

In the case of both South Alabama and UAB, there was talk of a on campus stadium. We're talking about an athletic department already losing millions every year, wanting to spend tens of millions more, because once again, they just decided they wanted a football team. Why did they want one? It wasn't the hoards of fans lining up and demanding it, it was born of their sense of entitlement. After all, they can make Alabama and Auburn fans pay for it, so why not?

I'm footing the bill for the South Alabama football program, and someone can tell me all the reasons why they might not be a complete and utter train wreck, and instead settle for a modest failure, but they get rent free use of Ladd Stadium, they get a cut of my tuition, and I didn't want the stupid team! Most people in the city don't care, but hey, a few people did and they had the ability to make it happen. But, let's not fool ourselves, here's the type of thing that goes on. Someone who was immediate family to one of the most prominent figures in South Alabama sports bought, on behalf of their company, an entire section of seats for a game. Now think about that, the interest was so low that South Alabama was willing to let someone buy up a whole section, and that's how programs like that can claim even the modest attendance they do. It's all a joke.

The thing is, yes the NCAA should do their job and eliminate teams below 15K in attendance (notice the media didn't even allude to this?). But, just because a program like Troy, or South Alabama is barely above the minimum doesn't mean they deserve a pat on their back. Given the implications of Title IX, they're still almost certainly losing money, they're still ultimately having a detrimental effect. The state has enough programs without propping up these wanna bes, and that I'm sure is the same for other states like Michigan and so on.
I have an easier time at agreeing that uab shouldn't continue football due to location of the stadium, it being so close to alabama, and it being a mediocre on good years of a team. But USA and Troy are different situations entirely. They are their own universities and their growth rate is going up. If you go to USA then you would know that their biggest push on USA day is all about growing. They aren't going to be as big as bama and auburn but they both are a good programs in their own right. I'll accept that they probably would be better in the fcs but it will probably never happen due to the NCAA losing tons of money in their own right because USA and Troy won't be the only ones downgraded.
 
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GP for Bama

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I would just say "who cares about UAB"...except their program cost the already cash strapped state of Alabama and the UA system a lot of money.
 

Mystical

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I have an easier time at agreeing that uab shouldn't continue football due to location of the stadium, it being so close to alabama, and it being a mediocre on good years of a team. But USA and Troy are different situations entirely. They are their own universities and their growth rate is going up. If you go to USA then you would know that their biggest push on USA day is all about growing. They aren't going to be as big as bama and auburn but they both are a good programs in their own right. I'll accept that they probably would be better in the fcs but it will probably never happen due to the NCAA losing tons of money in their own right because USA and Troy won't be the only ones downgraded.
I agree South and UAB not even in the same ball park. I have been to a few South games, with my family and a bunch of friends, just to have something to do on a Saturday. This is convenient when I can not get tickets or afford to drive to and from T-town. Funny thing is you go to a game and you still see tons of people wearing Alabama and Auburn gear. If Lad was not such a dump they would probably get better turn out.
 

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