Question: Amtrak crash, Human error?, Infrastructure failure?

92tide

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May 9, 2000
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As another poster noted earlier, we did approve nearly $1 trillion dollars in shovel-ready infrastructure projects back in 2009. This project was apparently not a high priority for the democrat government at the time.
installing positive track control in the north east corridor is actually a stimulus infrastructure project. about 1/3 of the corridor has had it installed.



new york times article

According to the January/February issue of Amtrak Ink, a publication for employees, Amtrak had equipped about 400 miles of track with the advanced system. That included the New England Line, from Boston to New Haven; the New York Line, from New Brunswick, N.J., to Trenton; and the Mid-Atlantic Line, from Perryville, Md., to Wilmington, Del. The next step is another 1,200 miles of track, including the rest of the Northeast Corridor.
 

92tide

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I'm not sure about the 1T figure (most of whatever it was didn't go to Amtrak) but the PTC system is on Amtrak's most wanted list so it will be interesting when we find out why it hasn't been implemented more.
this was a quick glance of what went to amtrak

AMTRAK PORTION - $1.3B (funds available as of 3-13-09)
$850M - for capital improvements
$450M - for safety improvements
 

TIDE-HSV

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Wow. If that turns out to be it, then somebody's got some 'splainin' to do.
Sometimes, it develops years after the concussion which caused the condition. The son of a very good friend has it as a result of a major accident when he was a teenager. (In a coma for weeks.) He held a job for years as, first, a beer truck driver and then some transport company when the seizures showed up. After he was dxed, it was an automatic 12 month license suspension from the last incident. He never got his DL back. In this case, I actually posted that before I read about the emergency brake being applied just before the crash. In that case, even if he did have a seizure, he woke up before the crash, so his amnesia, if not contrived, must be related to the crash concussion...
 

Tidewater

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Sometimes, it develops years after the concussion which caused the condition. The son of a very good friend has it as a result of a major accident when he was a teenager. (In a coma for weeks.) He held a job for years as, first, a beer truck driver and then some transport company when the seizures showed up. After he was dxed, it was an automatic 12 month license suspension from the last incident. He never got his DL back. In this case, I actually posted that before I read about the emergency brake being applied just before the crash. In that case, even if he did have a seizure, he woke up before the crash, so his amnesia, if not contrived, must be related to the crash concussion...
I would think evidence of petit mal seizures would be disqualifying for employment as a train driver.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I would think evidence of petit mal seizures would be disqualifying for employment as a train driver.
It would be, if it were known. The boy I mentioned didn't have his first one until his early 30s - no sign nor hint before then. He rear-ended a car downtown here - and didn't remember it. Sometimes it takes a while before the condition is dxed...
 

AV8N

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Although PTC may have prevented this incident, it was operator error that caused it. Whether through neglect, malice or a real medical emergency, the engineer failed to control the speed of the train.
I don't see anyone calling to stop all routes without PTC until it is installed, and many have been operating without it, so lack of PTC must not be inherently unsafe.
 

Bama Reb

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I'm not going to argue any possible medical causes for why the conductor waited so long to put on the brakes. But if I had been in his shoes and had caused this wreck through my own negligence, and it resulted in the injuries and/or deaths of passengers, I can say for sure that after I spoke with my attorney, I'm sure I "wouldn't remember it" either.

At this point, too much about this story doesn't make sense.
 
Last edited:

92tide

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I'm not going to argue any possible medical causes for why the conductor waited so long to put on the brakes. But if I had been in his shoes and had caused this wreck through my own negligence, and it resulted in the injuries and/or deaths of passengers, I can say for sure that after I spoke with my attorney, I'm sure I "wouldn't remember it" either.

At this point, too much about this story doesn't make sense.
based on the time of the accident, i think the conductor falling asleep at the wheel is a possibility
 

TIDE-HSV

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I'm not going to argue any possible medical causes for why the conductor waited so long to put on the brakes. But if I had been in his shoes and had caused this wreck through my own negligence, and it resulted in the injuries and/or deaths of passengers, I can say for sure that after I spoke with my attorney, I'm sure I "wouldn't remember it" either.

At this point, too much about this story doesn't make sense.
If it were SD, an EEG will show that...
 

Tidewater

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Then there is this.
Washington Post was, well, not entirely truthful about Amtrak funding.

And then there’s the blatantly false and deliberately deceitful claim by Philip Bump that Congress hasn’t passed any funding for Amtrak since 2013. That’s a complete lie. If Philip Bump read his own newspaper, he’d know that the $1.1 trillion spending bill signed by President Barack Obama last December included nearly $1.4 billion in funding for Amtrak.
 

Bamaro

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IMO, this is reflective of a larger overall problem with the deterioration of our aging infrastructure. We can argue all we want about a bloated government, slacker civil servants, waste, welfare queens, huge misuse of SS disability payments, $500 toilet seats, defense contracts that the military doesn't want but congress does, wasteful laws relating to union contractors, huge deficits etc but in the end, something must be done to fix our infrastructure. Roads, bridges, sewer lines, electric grid, waste treatment plants, railroads etc. Somehow, I'm not sure how or where, we need to come up with the funding to fix these growing problems. It will be money well spent with benefits to everyone including employment in worthwhile endeavors. Its shouldn't be a partisan issue. Rich and poor, left and right, male and female, all will benefit IF the money is spent well and these benefits will last for years and years.
 

jthomas666

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IMO, this is reflective of a larger overall problem with the deterioration of our aging infrastructure. We can argue all we want about a bloated government, slacker civil servants, waste, welfare queens, huge misuse of SS disability payments, $500 toilet seats, defense contracts that the military doesn't want but congress does, wasteful laws relating to union contractors, huge deficits etc but in the end, something must be done to fix our infrastructure. Roads, bridges, sewer lines, electric grid, waste treatment plants, railroads etc. Somehow, I'm not sure how or where, we need to come up with the funding to fix these growing problems. It will be money well spent with benefits to everyone including employment in worthwhile endeavors. Its shouldn't be a partisan issue. Rich and poor, left and right, male and female, all will benefit IF the money is spent well and these benefits will last for years and years.
There you go talking sense again...
 

Tide1986

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Nov 22, 2008
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IMO, this is reflective of a larger overall problem with the deterioration of our aging infrastructure. We can argue all we want about a bloated government, slacker civil servants, waste, welfare queens, huge misuse of SS disability payments, $500 toilet seats, defense contracts that the military doesn't want but congress does, wasteful laws relating to union contractors, huge deficits etc but in the end, something must be done to fix our infrastructure. Roads, bridges, sewer lines, electric grid, waste treatment plants, railroads etc. Somehow, I'm not sure how or where, we need to come up with the funding to fix these growing problems. It will be money well spent with benefits to everyone including employment in worthwhile endeavors. Its shouldn't be a partisan issue. Rich and poor, left and right, male and female, all will benefit IF the money is spent well and these benefits will last for years and years.
Priorities, priorities...
 

Tide1986

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Here's a good article. It quickly touches on the political reasons why Amtrak funding is challenged, but it also explains the underlying technical reason:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stancol...-amtrak-funding-is-so-difficult-for-congress/

...there’s also a far more technical reason Amtrak funding – or indeed spending for any infrastructure project — is exceedingly difficult for Washington: the federal government has a cash-based budget that treats everything [sic] an operating expense.
 

Bamafaninco1

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IMO, this is reflective of a larger overall problem with the deterioration of our aging infrastructure. We can argue all we want about a bloated government, slacker civil servants, waste, welfare queens, huge misuse of SS disability payments, $500 toilet seats, defense contracts that the military doesn't want but congress does, wasteful laws relating to union contractors, huge deficits etc but in the end, something must be done to fix our infrastructure. Roads, bridges, sewer lines, electric grid, waste treatment plants, railroads etc. Somehow, I'm not sure how or where, we need to come up with the funding to fix these growing problems. It will be money well spent with benefits to everyone including employment in worthwhile endeavors. Its shouldn't be a partisan issue. Rich and poor, left and right, male and female, all will benefit IF the money is spent well and these benefits will last for years and years.
This wasn't a funding problem, the money is there, this was a human problem. The FCC was holding up some upgrades to technology that maybe would have helped save lives in this.
 

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