If this year's secondary plays better than last year's, this defense has the potential to be unbelievably good. The front 7 will be ridiculous, if the back four are solid (or better) then this will remove a ton of pressure form there offense.
Link: post-spring secondary review - Roll Bama Roll
- Thread starter bama579
- Start date
I agree. Last year we didnt do good on third down stops. If we can do better on half of the poessions on 3rd downs this year compared to last year, we should be okay.
I remember reading Nick Perry say the issues on third down came from poor communication. Taking a fifth year senior at his word, why is there poor communication?
The complex defense can lead to it. If Kirby doesn't get the play call in to the MLB in time, players don't understand their assignment.
Younger players can lead to it. The key players in the 2014 secondary: Cyrus Jones (2nd year CB), Eddie Jackson (2nd year CB), Tony Brown (1st year CB), Bradly Sylve (3rd year CB), Landon Collins (3rd year S), Nick Perry (5th year S), Jarrick Williams (5th year S), Geno Smith (3rd year DB), Maurice Smith (2nd year DB), and Jabriel Washington (3rd year DB).
The complex defense can lead to it. If Kirby doesn't get the play call in to the MLB in time, players don't understand their assignment.
Younger players can lead to it. The key players in the 2014 secondary: Cyrus Jones (2nd year CB), Eddie Jackson (2nd year CB), Tony Brown (1st year CB), Bradly Sylve (3rd year CB), Landon Collins (3rd year S), Nick Perry (5th year S), Jarrick Williams (5th year S), Geno Smith (3rd year DB), Maurice Smith (2nd year DB), and Jabriel Washington (3rd year DB).
Exactly. We had huge issues with Running QBs.. I agree with this post. Looking at the numbers for defense last year, I'm not going to include team
Teams we struggled against Pass in 2014:
West Virginia, Southern Miss, Miss, Arkansas, Tennessee, Miss state, Auburn and Ohio State
Struggled against the Run in 2014:
Tennessee, LSU, Miss State, Auburn and Ohio State ( those are QBs that is mobile and really can run.) Most of the issues we had against those teams when we were on 2nd or 3rd down and we created a huge gap for QB to run for first down. Tennessee Qb, Dobb killed us that night.
Here's the weird part... We gave up 5 rushing touchdown in 2014, but gave up 19 touchdowns passing. RTR is right, it was lack of communication. If we had communicated better on the field, I think we would've been in top 10.... easily.
Teams we struggled against Pass in 2014:
West Virginia, Southern Miss, Miss, Arkansas, Tennessee, Miss state, Auburn and Ohio State
Struggled against the Run in 2014:
Tennessee, LSU, Miss State, Auburn and Ohio State ( those are QBs that is mobile and really can run.) Most of the issues we had against those teams when we were on 2nd or 3rd down and we created a huge gap for QB to run for first down. Tennessee Qb, Dobb killed us that night.
Here's the weird part... We gave up 5 rushing touchdown in 2014, but gave up 19 touchdowns passing. RTR is right, it was lack of communication. If we had communicated better on the field, I think we would've been in top 10.... easily.
It's kind of weird because you went from basically asserting bad coaching by Alabama, to moving more towards personnel and other reasons for struggles. That in and of itself is a point, it's not just how the secondary is coached, it's who is out there executing, it's their experience level, it's all these variables. Alabama's defense, and yes Smart, has proved fully capable of being the best, but it can't always be the best regardless of who is out there doing it.
In terms of Stanford, yes when they had two three year starters at linebacker, they were capable of being much more physical and they knew Oregon, they knew where to be. Without those guys? We saw regression, which was my point! It's not just the system! Also, your point about LSU playing Oregon actually brings experience back into the equation and I've brought that point up myself. Alabama in 2012 basically got their first real dose of a high octane HUNH team late in the season. LSU had their first dose of that much earlier, due to having Oregon on the schedule. Experience...
You really, really are trying hard to disparage Alabama and praise Chavis, despite the fact that with an equal level of talent Alabama has outdone LSU on defense, not to mention as a whole. I don't get it, it makes no sense. You are bringing up personnel again, an excuse you won't make on behalf of Alabama.
But, let's look at A&M vs. Alabama and LSU. Let's go ahead and take a look.
2012, A&M scores 20 points against Alabama in the first quarter. First real look Alabama had against that sort of an offense. They settled down and gave up only 9 points in three quarters. LSU, gave up 19 points to A&M and beat them, but the idea that it was some massive gap is a joke.
2013, Alabama had to play A&M very, very early in the season. They had a very inexperienced secondary, but they still won. Not just that, but a lot of A&M's offense when Alabama was just sitting on a lead. They scored 21 points in the first three quarters, totaling 6 quarters of giving up 30 points to A&M, which is your idea of Alabama getting "embarrassed". Just so you can get what embarrassed actually is, Alabama scored 35 in one quarter against A&M in 2014. Almost all of A&M's offense over three years also happened to come in two quarters.
2014, Alabama dominated A&M in a fashion no one has.
So, what does this all add up to? Over the three years, Alabama was 2-1 against A&M and LSU was 3-0. I suppose one could give Chavis credit for that. However, scores? 137-66 vs. 81-46. It was just completely different approaches, but the most different approach was not on defense at all! It was on offense, and you alluded to that, but you seem to mistakenly insinuate that LSU's offense made things harder on Chavis. That's not true, they ran a more pure ball control offense and made it easier.
Let's look at the middle game, 2013, the game in which Alabama's defense appeared to be much worse. Alabama had the ball for 35 minutes, LSU had it for 40. Alabama ran 66 plays, LSU ran 75. LSU ran the ball 55 times, Alabama ran it 37 times. LSU just stuffed the ball down A&M's throats, they controlled the clock, and that was of considerable benefit to the defense. You can look at Alabama's score and mistakenly think the offense did more to help the defense, but ball control helps a defense (in terms of scoring defense at least) far more than simply scoring.
I never said Alabama did far better, but I was arguing against the notion Alabama's coaching was worse. I think that's ridiculous and based on a fantasy world of entitled fandom. It, like the other game I just alluded to, was a completely different style game. It was a 41-7 game, Chavis and his defense didn't even keep them in that game, Alabama's defense did what it take to win, which they have a habit of doing. They, regardless of what they give up, always keep Alabama in the game.
Youth and inexperience are related, but not necessarily one and the same. Most defenses kind of rise and fall, they are inexperienced, in a couple years those guys mature and they get better. Alabama plays at a high level constantly, but not without some weaknesses. Guys like Jarrick for example have been around a long time, but there are issues there both in terms of his on-field experience and his ability to play the position. Alabama has been cherry picked, and it's inevitable that it starts to hurt. Let's not even bring up Eddie, who was at least by one service Alabama's top recruit overall, not just the secondary.
I suspect that the secondary will be better, primarily because the talent is there and they have had some time to mature. It really hurt when Vinny left early to be a late draft pick, I think he would have been the leader, the communicator, but there's no question Alabama had to kind of patch things for the past couple years. They started a true freshman in a big game, in another big game they were running a very inexperienced CB out there the previous year, I think it will be better though.
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I never said Chavis's defense is better than Smart's. I said he has faired better against the HUNH. You cant argue that. Smart's defense works better as a whole but without talented players that can quickly pick up the complexity of his defense then the HUNH will have more success against us. In the two rematch games against aTm and GusBus those teams put up over 600 yards on us when they did 100- 200 yards less in the games before. Chavis has tore thru Johnny twice, destroyed Oregon, and has beat Gus without letting him light up the scoreboard (13). I think they are by far the two best defensive coordinators in the SEC but they both have their weaknesses: Chavis (power run) and Smart (HUNH)
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Actually, he didn't. Stats
LSU benefited from 4 turnovers in that game. One of which was the strip by Tyrann Mathieu at the Oregon 3 and returned for a touchdown. Another was a fumble by DeAnthony Thomas on a kickoff.
they beat them 40-27 with a so so offense and the game was closer because of Oregon's garbage points. Oregon averaged 522 yards per game that year and LSU held them about 200 under that. I would say it was a close first half LSU 16-13 but LSU dominated them in the second half and a few garbage points made the game look better than it was.
Well first to be clear I tend to argue with general sentiments and things I've heard, vs. with an actual poster. So, if I try to credit Alabama's coaching, I'm not trying to say you are saying otherwise in every respect, it's just that I've heard a lot of negative comments cumulatively over the past couple years that I think are unwarranted.
There's no question that the Alabama defense has some of if not the best coaching in all of college football. Some fans kind of forget that when they start picking at "weaknesses" (which in reality just means that Alabama wasn't great at something). To your points, I would agree that with inexperienced players Smart's defense probably does have more issues with the HUNH than Chavis does. But, there's no way around the fact that both LSU and Standford gave up 40+ to HUNH teams last year, after a lot of talk about how superior those defenses were against the HUNH teams. So, it can't all be the system.
Against Auburn last year, I think the loss of Vinny was devastating. Vinny was Alabama's most experienced defender, which speaks to the lack of experience, but losing a leader in the secondary, and a sure tackler was costly against Auburn. Furthermore, his leaving early also contributed to a lot of the issues we saw. Vinny's role would have been to make sure they were in position, not to mention his other contributions, but he left early, something that there's just no way he would have done had he been at Standford or most schools. At Alabama, if you start over a year on defense, you'll probably get drafted, and that's an issue. I do though, firmly believe that if Smart had players used to facing the HUNH, his defense would actually fair quite well, and we have seen indications that his defense can actually shut down HUNH team's under the right conditions.
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The problem with Stanford is that they lost their edge with Derek Mason taking the Vandy job. Yeah most wont say that because he had an abysmal season even for normal Vandy standards, but something obviously clicked when he became the full time DC for them in 2013 and 14. Because before it was your typical Oregon game where you try to outscore them and Harbaugh think Luck was enough, pun intended. I think its obvious how to beat Oregon and no one wants to try doing it. I think people actually overrate Stanford because they are known as the spoiler team. Oregon is like USC was in the early 2000's where it was USC and the 11 dwarfs.
LSU and Alabama actually have had similar numbers against Auburn the last two years but they flip flop in what needed to happen in both years. In 13, Cameron actually called a great game for once, shocking, and Chavis bet the farm on his talented defense against Auburn's talent on offense and LSU wins. Alabama calls a terrible offensive game plan, we bet the farm on our talent and scheme of our defense against their scheme and we lose on the most improbable play that shouldve never happen had we let AJ and Cooper loose.
Then go to 2014, LSU had a horrible offense with a decently talented defense go against Auburn. Auburn did throttle them. Then in the Ironbowl we had a talented defense that got too complex at times and had a great offense behind a great OC and we outscored them in a shootout. That game reminded me of when Stallings finally unleashed Homer Smith and Jay Barker to beat Georgia in 94. Sometimes a great offense is your best defense. had LSU had an offense they probably would traded blows with Auburn, and possibly won. But we did they didnt.
I think our defense will be improved this year, but the question is how improved? I will give our coaches the benefit of the doubt and say much improved, but Im not going to say we will win it all just yet. but soon
Here is another good article from RBR, that actually breaks down the breakdowns:
exec summary is that some of it was physical talent issue: i.e only one confident CB, but that a lot of it was player mistakes. Sure some player mistakes are related to coaching, but the ones called out are pretty simple reads the players certainly should have known given the call and formations. The issues are spread pretty evenly between S and CB play...
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2015/5/20/8628481/alabama-football-2015-preview-fixing-the-secondary
exec summary is that some of it was physical talent issue: i.e only one confident CB, but that a lot of it was player mistakes. Sure some player mistakes are related to coaching, but the ones called out are pretty simple reads the players certainly should have known given the call and formations. The issues are spread pretty evenly between S and CB play...
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2015/5/20/8628481/alabama-football-2015-preview-fixing-the-secondary
The most frustrating thing about that is the guys making the mistakes were upperclassmen like Perry and Trey. Those guys should know what to do.
Also, look at the picture of the rub. That appears to be offensive pass interference. Might just be the angle.
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completely agree those guys should know better. There's no way they were not coached on these things.The most frustrating thing about that is the guys making the mistakes were upperclassmen like Perry and Trey. Those guys should know what to do.
Also, look at the picture of the rub. That appears to be offensive pass interference. Might just be the angle.
The rub is always borderline PI. the receiver just has to establish position first and not head directly at the WR and they usually get the benefit of the doubt.
And my issue on that play Depriest was watching backfield, not knowing what was going on around him... He could've taken away that first read, given that Marashall was staring hard at his WRs... It would've resulted in him throwing the ball away or trying to scramble.
The most frustrating thing about that is the guys making the mistakes were upperclassmen like Perry and Trey. Those guys should know what to do.
Also, look at the picture of the rub. That appears to be offensive pass interference. Might just be the angle.
He may have been spying Marshall. The way Marshall ran the ball you had to keep any eye on him or pay the consequences.
I believe he was spying marshall... but he could've at least recognize the play though. I don't think the S and CB knew what was going on that play.
Another thing is.. as the play develops, Another thing is... Tony Brown got picked on this play.. and OSU did same thing to him. or was it LSU or Auburn? not sure? That pick play is going to be real popular against Alabama early in the season.
Mizzou did it to us but matty mauk was just up and down on us so they couldn't take full advantage on it.
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