Link: post-spring secondary review - Roll Bama Roll

HartselleTider

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Alasippi

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I think he was referring to Saban hiring the secondary coach from the Bears, who actually knows how modern day secondary play should be coached.
 
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BubbaOne

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On paper New coach looks like the answer we need but until this group proves it can defend the long pass and wide open receivers we will continue to have problems.
 

bamanix

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it is about time we had a secondary position coach. todays football, involves the secondary a lot more than in the past. coverage, tackling is key. we have a coach in coach tucker that has done it in college and the pros. he will help a lot.
 

GreatDanish

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Finally, a good DB coach! We might even end up with a pass defense ranked in the top 15 nationally!
You know, like we've had in 5 of the last 6 seasons.
 

81usaf92

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Anyone who thinks Alabama's issues in the secondary are primarily a coaching issue must miss the NFL Draft every year.
There are quite a few players that make the draft on just talent. So I think it would lean toward a bit of both the coaches and the players for our issues.
 

KrAzY3

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There are quite a few players that make the draft on just talent. So I think it would lean toward a bit of both the coaches and the players for our issues.
One of a defenses' primary assets is experience. I've been over this before, but I recall people lauding Stanford and LSU's system for example and both got absolutely demolished last year by the same HUNH teams they contained the previous year. What happened? It sure wasn't a change in coaching and on LSU's part it certainly wasn't a lack of talent.

It's experience! Alabama, every single year loses guys in their secondary that leave early and they get replaced by inexperienced players. Remember, players can stay on the team for 5 years really, Alabama loses a lot after 3 or 4 years and yet some fans, for what ever reason, can't comprehend why a sophomore or freshman doesn't play like a senior or junior, or why an inexperienced player doesn't play like an experienced one. Coaching players takes time, experience takes time, for every instant impact freshman, there's a Javier Arenas who went from not playing and wanting to quit, to blowing coverage against LSU, to becoming an NFL Draft pick.

Alabama started a true freshman one game at CB last year. Now, I'm trying to come up with a shut down corner as a true freshman, but it's hard to do. There's a reason that happened though. Alabama has had a secondary guy leave early for the 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015 drafts. Prior to those seasons though, I can't recall the last time that happened. We're talking about in some cases guys who were only on campus for three years, some like Landon who only actually started one full season. It's inevitable that a secondary facing inexperience and the loss of quality players have adversity.
 
Last edited:

Con

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One of a defenses' primary assets is experience. I've been over this before, but I recall people lauding Stanford and LSU's system for example and both got absolutely demolished last year by the same HUNH teams they contained the previous year. What happened? It sure wasn't a change in coaching and on LSU's part it certainly wasn't a lack of talent.

It's experience! Alabama, every single year loses guys in their secondary that leave early and they get replaced by inexperienced players. Remember, players can stay on the team for 5 years really, Alabama loses a lot after 3 or 4 years and yet some fans, for what ever reason, can't comprehend why a sophomore or freshman doesn't play like a senior or junior, or why an inexperienced player doesn't play like an experienced one. Coaching players takes time, experience takes time, for every instant impact freshman, there's a Javier Arenas who went from not playing and wanting to quit, to blowing coverage against LSU, to becoming an NFL Draft pick.

Alabama started a true freshman one game at CB last year. Now, I'm trying to come up with a shut down corner as a true freshman, but it's hard to do. There's a reason that happened though. Alabama has had a secondary guy leave early for the 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015 drafts. Prior to those seasons though, I can't recall the last time that happened. We're talking about in some cases guys who were only on campus for three years, some like Landon who only actually started one full season. It's inevitable that a secondary facing inexperience and the loss of quality players have adversity.
Great post KrAzY.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

81usaf92

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One of a defenses' primary assets is experience. I've been over this before, but I recall people lauding Stanford and LSU's system for example and both got absolutely demolished last year by the same HUNH teams they contained the previous year. What happened? It sure wasn't a change in coaching and on LSU's part it certainly wasn't a lack of talent.

It's experience! Alabama, every single year loses guys in their secondary that leave early and they get replaced by inexperienced players. Remember, players can stay on the team for 5 years really, Alabama loses a lot after 3 or 4 years and yet some fans, for what ever reason, can't comprehend why a sophomore or freshman doesn't play like a senior or junior, or why an inexperienced player doesn't play like an experienced one. Coaching players takes time, experience takes time, for every instant impact freshman, there's a Javier Arenas who went from not playing and wanting to quit, to blowing coverage against LSU, to becoming an NFL Draft pick.

Alabama started a true freshman one game at CB last year. Now, I'm trying to come up with a shut down corner as a true freshman, but it's hard to do. There's a reason that happened though. Alabama has had a secondary guy leave early for the 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015 drafts. Prior to those seasons though, I can't recall the last time that happened. We're talking about in some cases guys who were only on campus for three years, some like Landon who only actually started one full season. It's inevitable that a secondary facing inexperience and the loss of quality players have adversity.
You can say experience all day long but you can't explain why chavis is great at stopping the hunh better than smart. Kirby has an extremely complicated defense that if he has the right players with that can pick it up it is nearly unstoppable. Chavis has a simplistic defense that is geared around the individual talent of the starters on his defense. He has been more successful at the hunh because he basically says our guys are better than yours rather than our scheme is better than yours.
 

81usaf92

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One of a defenses' primary assets is experience. I've been over this before, but I recall people lauding Stanford and LSU's system for example and both got absolutely demolished last year by the same HUNH teams they contained the previous year. What happened? It sure wasn't a change in coaching and on LSU's part it certainly wasn't a lack of talent.

It's experience! Alabama, every single year loses guys in their secondary that leave early and they get replaced by inexperienced players. Remember, players can stay on the team for 5 years really, Alabama loses a lot after 3 or 4 years and yet some fans, for what ever reason, can't comprehend why a sophomore or freshman doesn't play like a senior or junior, or why an inexperienced player doesn't play like an experienced one. Coaching players takes time, experience takes time, for every instant impact freshman, there's a Javier Arenas who went from not playing and wanting to quit, to blowing coverage against LSU, to becoming an NFL Draft pick.

Alabama started a true freshman one game at CB last year. Now, I'm trying to come up with a shut down corner as a true freshman, but it's hard to do. There's a reason that happened though. Alabama has had a secondary guy leave early for the 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015 drafts. Prior to those seasons though, I can't recall the last time that happened. We're talking about in some cases guys who were only on campus for three years, some like Landon who only actually started one full season. It's inevitable that a secondary facing inexperience and the loss of quality players have adversity.
You can say experience all day long but you can't explain why chavis is better at stopping the hunh than smart. Kirby has an extremely complicated defense that if he has the right players that can pick it up it is nearly unstoppable. But that hasn't always been the case in the last two years but it's a better all around defense than chavis 's defense. Chavis has a simplistic defense that is geared around the individual talent of the starters on his defense. He has been more successful at the hunh because he basically says "our guys are more talented than yours "rather than "our scheme is better than yours."
 
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Alasippi

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I like the fact that it looked like this new guy teaches our kids to turn, find the ball, and try to make a play on it.
That simplifies things so much. Sometimes you have to eliminate complicated coverage schemes and techniques and just let the guys use their incredibly incredible God given talent. I think we'll be better, way better, in the secondary.
 

BamaInBham

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You can say experience all day long but you can't explain why chavis is better at stopping the hunh than smart. Kirby has an extremely complicated defense that if he has the right players that can pick it up it is nearly unstoppable. But that hasn't always been the case in the last two years but it's a better all around defense than chavis 's defense. Chavis has a simplistic defense that is geared around the individual talent of the starters on his defense. He has been more successful at the hunh because he basically says "our guys are more talented than yours "rather than "our scheme is better than yours."
Come on. You explained it. Saban knows, but it's hard to change, especially when you think you have a chance of remedying the situation.
 

KrAzY3

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You can say experience all day long but you can't explain why chavis is great at stopping the hunh better than smart.
Didn't Chavis give up 41 to Auburn? The fact is last year, the LSU and Alabama defenses were nearly identical. So, sure you can disparage Smart and say how well Chavis did, but on the field LSU didn't do any better last year, so...

That's part of my annoyance, I had to hear how much better Standard was for a couple years, until they gave up 45 to Oregon and people realized there wasn't some magical better against the HUNH fairy dust they were sprinkling on their field, rather it might have had something to do with those 5th year senior All American linebackers. The annoying thing though is that it seems people become blind to reality. LSU was nearly the mirror image to Alabama's defense last year statistically, yet some people will still say they did better, or that the Alabama coaches did worse? Really? Which team shut out Texas A&M? This is the epitome of fans thinking the grass is greener, but the numbers just don't bear that out.

This isn't to say that there are not some issues created by the HUNH that exacerbate inexperience, clearly, but we've also seen that mature, experienced players can deal with this situation far better. It's made to confuse, to mislead. Furthermore, obviously some schemes are going to be more effective than others in certain scenarios. That's a given, but the reality is Alabama can and has shut down some HUNH teams.

Let's get back to LSU and Alabama's defense. Last year both averaged 4.87 yards per play given up. Last year both gave up 27 touchdowns. LSU gave up 92 to Miss State/Auburn/A&M and Alabama gave up 64, but sure, I can't explain why Chavis is better at stopping the HUNH because I don't think he is.
 
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gtgilbert

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I like the fact that it looked like this new guy teaches our kids to turn, find the ball, and try to make a play on it.
That simplifies things so much. Sometimes you have to eliminate complicated coverage schemes and techniques and just let the guys use their incredibly incredible God given talent. I think we'll be better, way better, in the secondary.
I think our corner play will be much better, if only because corners tend to make a lot of improvement between season one as a starter where they take a lot of lumps and season two where they have some experience. We shouldn't have any completely new faces at CB out there.

that said, I'm still scared stiff of the situation at S. Moving Jackson over helps some, but he's still got to learn a lot about the S position.
 

luvthat_TIDE

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On paper New coach looks like the answer we need but until this group proves it can defend the long pass and wide open receivers we will continue to have problems.
LOL. How does one defend a wide open receiver? Tackle them after the catch.
 

81usaf92

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Didn't Chavis give up 41 to Auburn? The fact is last year, the LSU and Alabama defenses were nearly identical. So, sure you can disparage Smart and say how well Chavis did, but on the field LSU didn't do any better last year, so...

That's part of my annoyance, I had to hear how much better Standard was for a couple years, until they gave up 45 to Oregon and people realized there wasn't some magical better against the HUNH fairy dust they were sprinkling on their field, rather it might have had something to do with those 5th year senior All American linebackers. The annoying thing though is that it seems people become blind to reality. LSU was nearly the mirror image to Alabama's defense last year statistically, yet some people will still say they did better, or that the Alabama coaches did worse? Really? Which team shut out Texas A&M? This is the epitome of fans thinking the grass is greener, but the numbers just don't bear that out.

This isn't to say that there are not some issues created by the HUNH that exacerbate inexperience, clearly, but we've also seen that mature, experienced players can deal with this situation far better. It's made to confuse, to mislead. Furthermore, obviously some schemes are going to be more effective than others in certain scenarios. That's a given, but the reality is Alabama can and has shut down some HUNH teams.

Let's get back to LSU and Alabama's defense. Last year both averaged 4.87 yards per play given up. Last year both gave up 27 touchdowns. LSU gave up 92 to Miss State/Auburn/A&M and Alabama gave up 64, but sure, I can't explain why Chavis is better at stopping the HUNH because I don't think he is.
First off. Oregon's weakness has been and always will be physical teams. Stanford was the most physical team two out of the last three years. Also consider that mason bolted to vandy last year as well. Oregon also was punked by Chavis in 2011.

As far as chavis you also have to consider that the talent of the defense was no where near what it was in 11,12,and 13. And also while Johnny embarrassed us in 12 and 13 chavis put his butt in timeout. Also consider that last year, lsu's defense was in a constant battle against their offense who early on was a turnover machine.The difference between Chavis and smart is that smart lives off a complex defense that requires talented and smart players and Chavis in his later career has made his defenses to be based on individual talent over scheme. You can judge the talent of a player but you can't judge how long a person is going to stay or how long it's going to pick up the complexity of his defense.

You keep bringing up Chavis vs Auburn but here is Auburns offensive production last year game by game
Date
Opponent
Surface
Result
Rush Yards
Pass Yards
Plays
Total Yards
08/30/14
Arkansas
Grass
W 45-21
302
293
70
595
09/06/14
San Jose St.
Grass
W 59-13
358
135
73
493
09/18/14
@ 18 Kansas St.
Turf
W 20-14
128
231
76
359
09/27/14
Louisiana Tech
Grass
W 45-17
254
219
70
473
10/04/14
LSU
Grass
W 41-7
298
268
74
566
10/11/14
@ 11 Mississippi St.
Grass
L 23-38
232
209
78
441
10/25/14
South Carolina
Grass
W 42-35
395
156
62
551
11/01/14
@ 17 Mississippi
Turf
W 35-31
248
254
68
502
11/08/14
Texas A&M
Grass
L 38-41
363
219
80
582
11/15/14
@ 9 Georgia
Grass
L 7-34
150
142
63
292
11/22/14
Samford
Grass
W 31-7
200
186
69
386
11/29/14
@ 4 Alabama
Grass
L 44-55
174
456
90
630

It seems had Chavis had the fortune of having Lane Kiffin instead of having Cam "I cant Coach" Cameron as an OC. We are possibly seeing a LSU victory instead of a romping.
 
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bama579

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Didn't Chavis give up 41 to Auburn? The fact is last year, the LSU and Alabama defenses were nearly identical. So, sure you can disparage Smart and say how well Chavis did, but on the field LSU didn't do any better last year, so...

That's part of my annoyance, I had to hear how much better Standard was for a couple years, until they gave up 45 to Oregon and people realized there wasn't some magical better against the HUNH fairy dust they were sprinkling on their field, rather it might have had something to do with those 5th year senior All American linebackers. The annoying thing though is that it seems people become blind to reality. LSU was nearly the mirror image to Alabama's defense last year statistically, yet some people will still say they did better, or that the Alabama coaches did worse? Really? Which team shut out Texas A&M? This is the epitome of fans thinking the grass is greener, but the numbers just don't bear that out.

This isn't to say that there are not some issues created by the HUNH that exacerbate inexperience, clearly, but we've also seen that mature, experienced players can deal with this situation far better. It's made to confuse, to mislead. Furthermore, obviously some schemes are going to be more effective than others in certain scenarios. That's a given, but the reality is Alabama can and has shut down some HUNH teams.

Let's get back to LSU and Alabama's defense. Last year both averaged 4.87 yards per play given up. Last year both gave up 27 touchdowns. LSU gave up 92 to Miss State/Auburn/A&M and Alabama gave up 64, but sure, I can't explain why Chavis is better at stopping the HUNH because I don't think he is.
The first sentence . . . Don't forget that WE gave up 44 to the Barn. Certainly more likely when we hung over half-a-hundred on them, but maybe not the better way to start. :wink:
 
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CraigD

All-American
Aug 8, 2006
2,322
747
137
Columbus, GA
I won't try too hard to analyze what has happened / hasn't happened in the defensive backfield in recent years. I don't have that great a football-analytical mind. I am aware that we send lots of kids to the NFL - but that's true of all positions (not just in the defensive backfield). I have been disappointed in the DB play the past few years. Not finding the ball (this appears to be technique; a.k.a. coaching) is a complaint of mine. Tackling, to my eye, has fallen off the past couple of years. The inexplicable long-ball vulnerability we saw last year was maddening. Not sure what to say about that.

I believe that we do have the talent, year after year, to have a good/great defensive backfield. We're signing good players (especially the past two years) but for some reason many of them haven't developed (or haven't been developed). To me, the argument that we're not good in the backfield because we lose too many players to the NFL just doesn't carry a lot of water. We have plenty of talent. Well, we SIGN plenty of talent anyway. I DO wonder why (before the past two years) we haven't had the top DBs in the country waiting in line to play for coach Saban - who is considered to be a top DBs coach. The past two years we have finally had some success in getting the elite players.

I am glad for the coaching change and look forward to seeing what the new coach can do with all the talent he will have on hand - even if much of it is inexperienced. Having our D-line be so good will hopefully help the backfield while they gain experience.
 

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