Link: Very interesting Foxsports take on the Longhorn Network...

Catfish

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...If LSU or Auburn's going to have a good team this year I'd kind of like to know that...
I can help you out a little. AU will be very good. LSU has the talent to be excellent, but the coaching to throw up all over themselves. So, who knows with LSU? :conf2:
 

IH8Orange

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The people in Austin like this article so much that they named their (Travis) county after him. :cool:

It wasn't just the LHN that drove off Nebraska. They weren't very happy that the Big12 officials ruled that a Colt McCoy pass out-of-bounds hit a stadium fence before the end of regulation during the 2009 B12 championship game and gave UT one second back so that they could kick a FG to win the game.

Texas is ranked #4 in all-time victories in NCAA D1 history with 881 wins. Nebraska is ranked #2 with 884 wins. Other current and former B12 (and SWC) programs are at #8 Oklahoma (848 wins), #14 West Virginia (719 wins). #18 Texas A&M (710 wins), #21 Arkansas (692 wins), #24 Colorado (683 wins), #31 Missouri (663 wins), #43 TCU (614 wins), #57 Kansas (583 wins), #60 Baylor (572 wins), #65 Okie St. (558 wins), #68 Texas Tech (544 wins), #82 Iowa State (510 wins), and #96 SMU (475 wins). If one argues that UT's hubris is responsible for the defections from the SWC (Arkansas in 1992) and the Big12, then Texas is responsible for the loss of five teams that represent 3,632 wins, 4 Big12 championships, 27 Southwest Conference championships, 38 Big 8 championships, and 9 national championships (various selectors). This is an average of 726.4 wins , 14 conference championships, and 1.8 national championships each.

The eight programs not named Texas or Oklahoma that make up the pawn set for the Big12 total 4,575 wins, 4 Big12 championships, 4 Mountain West championships, 7 Big East championships, 5 Big 8 championships, 23 Southwest conference titles. and 3 national championships. This averages out to 571.9 wins, 5.4 conference championships, and 0.22 national championships each. That's quite a drop-off in the conference's traditional power. While the SEC pulls new members from the traditional power conferences, the Big12 is now relegated to taking in escapees from the Big East and Mountain West. Who will they raid next? Better watch out MAC-12.
 

Redwood Forrest

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The people in Austin like this article so much that they named their (Travis) county after him. :cool:

It wasn't just the LHN that drove off Nebraska. They weren't very happy that the Big12 officials ruled that a Colt McCoy pass out-of-bounds hit a stadium fence before the end of regulation during the 2009 B12 championship game and gave UT one second back so that they could kick a FG to win the game.



Texas is ranked #4 in all-time victories in NCAA D1 history with 881 wins. Nebraska is ranked #2 with 884 wins. Other current and former B12 (and SWC) programs are at #8 Oklahoma (848 wins), #14 West Virginia (719 wins). #18 Texas A&M (710 wins), #21 Arkansas (692 wins), #24 Colorado (683 wins), #31 Missouri (663 wins), #43 TCU (614 wins), #57 Kansas (583 wins), #60 Baylor (572 wins), #65 Okie St. (558 wins), #68 Texas Tech (544 wins), #82 Iowa State (510 wins), and #96 SMU (475 wins). If one argues that UT's hubris is responsible for the defections from the SWC (Arkansas in 1992) and the Big12, then Texas is responsible for the loss of five teams that represent 3,632 wins, 4 Big12 championships, 27 Southwest Conference championships, 38 Big 8 championships, and 9 national championships (various selectors). This is an average of 726.4 wins , 14 conference championships, and 1.8 national championships each.

The eight programs not named Texas or Oklahoma that make up the pawn set for the Big12 total 4,575 wins, 4 Big12 championships, 4 Mountain West championships, 7 Big East championships, 5 Big 8 championships, 23 Southwest conference titles. and 3 national championships. This averages out to 571.9 wins, 5.4 conference championships, and 0.22 national championships each. That's quite a drop-off in the conference's traditional power. While the SEC pulls new members from the traditional power conferences, the Big12 is now relegated to taking in escapees from the Big East and Mountain West. Who will they raid next? Better watch out MAC-12.
The best chance for failure of the Big 12 was putting Oklahoma and Texas in the same division and what did they do? Why, put all the power in the South. The result was failure. I hope if they do expand they will split up the power and even out the divisions.
 

cuda.1973

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The LHN is such a smashing success that I notice in the U-verse program guide that they are showing...................

The commencement ceremony. That will bring in recruits by the droves, I'm sure. What an amazing recruitment aid.
 

selmaborntidefan

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The LHN is such a smashing success that I notice in the U-verse program guide that they are showing...................

The commencement ceremony. That will bring in recruits by the droves, I'm sure. What an amazing recruitment aid.
Maybe they should show the movie "The Deadly Tower," starring Kurt Russell, now that WTBS doesn't do "Movies For Guys Who Like Movies" anymore.
 

81usaf92

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What was the deal that kept Oklahoma in the big 12 because I knew mizzou was ready to leave at a moments notice and would be a big 10 team had Nebraska not seen the writing on the wall. I just remember after aTm announced their intentions Oklahoma explored the PAC 12, but didn't want to go to the SeC because of academics. So was it just an act of them trying to leave or was Oklahoma also wanting to get away from Texas ?
 

BamaInBham

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What was the deal that kept Oklahoma in the big 12 because I knew mizzou was ready to leave at a moments notice and would be a big 10 team had Nebraska not seen the writing on the wall. I just remember after aTm announced their intentions Oklahoma explored the PAC 12, but didn't want to go to the SeC because of academics. So was it just an act of them trying to leave or was Oklahoma also wanting to get away from Texas ?
It's interesting that OU would reject the SEC because of academics since they would they rank in the bottom half of the SEC, tied for 7th with Tenn vs being in the upper half of the PAC 12, tied for 5th with Oregon. (Bama is the 4th ranked SEC public school: UF, UGA, A&M, Bama. i.e., upper 3rd. Btw, Bama would be the 2nd ranked program in the Big 12 and the 4th ranked program in the PAC 12 behind Cal, UCLA and Wash, tied with Col.) These rankings are courtesy of the 2015 US News & World Report Rankings of public universities. These rankings are similar to the last few years.

Or did you mean that OU felt the academic competition was too much in the SEC vs the easier PAC 12 😊 ?
 

KrAzY3

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What was the deal that kept Oklahoma in the big 12 because I knew mizzou was ready to leave at a moments notice and would be a big 10 team had Nebraska not seen the writing on the wall. I just remember after aTm announced their intentions Oklahoma explored the PAC 12, but didn't want to go to the SeC because of academics. So was it just an act of them trying to leave or was Oklahoma also wanting to get away from Texas ?
This happened in a few stages, and if break it down piece by piece you really do see how Texas is terrible for their conference.

The initial discussions had Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., Texas Tech (I believe), and Colorado all leaving to form a Pac-16. You'll notice, this included dumping Baylor, Missouri, Kansas, etc... Texas appeared to be the ringleader in this.

Now, prior to that the Big 10 kind of got the ball rolling, by peeling off Nebraska, but that largely had to do with how Texas had messed up the Big-12. Headquarters had been moved to Texas, Nebraska lost their rivalry game, the revenue sharing was unequal, etc... Oklahoma for their part chose to be Texas' sidekick. They were getting a big share of the revenue, they were getting Texas recruits, and I guess they decided to tie their fate to Texas, and push Nebraska and their own identity aside.

As a response to what was going on, Missouri flirted with the Big 10, but the Big 10 knew they had their pick and wasn't in a hurry to move beyond the single addition at the time. Now, myself and others, (Texas A&M fans, you name it) started to think about how may be the SEC was a better fit for A&M. This is where things got weird though, because apparently the SEC also flirted with Oklahoma as well (a move, that in this era makes very little sense).

Now, no one can really say for sure what happened from there. Texas didn't like the Pac's network deal, but as much as anything the threat of having to leave one of their sidekicks behind (which would expose them a bit more) probably scared them off of making the move. At the time though, the Big-12 was thought to be dead, but a lifeline was thrown to the conference and the reports were that behind the scenes people decided they didn't want to see that domino fall. The new deal, though built on uneven revenue sharing and bolstered by buyout money, promised to cut in Texas A&M at the top rate, and for a little while at least equal what the SEC would be paying. So, they held things together.

This worked for a bit, then it came out that the Longhorn Network was going to broadcast a Big-12 conference game. Now, I didn't figure out why that was allowed, but imagine how the entire conference took it. Texas was selling other team's games as their own, that's messed up and they managed somehow to pull that off. From there, the SEC just had to finally see common sense and go pick up A&M and Missouri.

Oklahoma and Texas have decided for better or worse that their fates should be tied together. Texas doesn't care about other programs, they never have, they don't even care about Oklahoma. They do, however feel very self important and having Oklahoma follow them around seems to cater to that. Oklahoma? They're a tiny state, Texas players make up almost half their roster, Texas provides a much larger audience. I suppose they feel as long as they're relevant in Texas, they're relevant period.
 

81usaf92

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This happened in a few stages, and if break it down piece by piece you really do see how Texas is terrible for their conference.

The initial discussions had Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., Texas Tech (I believe), and Colorado all leaving to form a Pac-16. You'll notice, this included dumping Baylor, Missouri, Kansas, etc... Texas appeared to be the ringleader in this.

Now, prior to that the Big 10 kind of got the ball rolling, by peeling off Nebraska, but that largely had to do with how Texas had messed up the Big-12. Headquarters had been moved to Texas, Nebraska lost their rivalry game, the revenue sharing was unequal, etc... Oklahoma for their part chose to be Texas' sidekick. They were getting a big share of the revenue, they were getting Texas recruits, and I guess they decided to tie their fate to Texas, and push Nebraska and their own identity aside.

As a response to what was going on, Missouri flirted with the Big 10, but the Big 10 knew they had their pick and wasn't in a hurry to move beyond the single addition at the time. Now, myself and others, (Texas A&M fans, you name it) started to think about how may be the SEC was a better fit for A&M. This is where things got weird though, because apparently the SEC also flirted with Oklahoma as well (a move, that in this era makes very little sense).

Now, no one can really say for sure what happened from there. Texas didn't like the Pac's network deal, but as much as anything the threat of having to leave one of their sidekicks behind (which would expose them a bit more) probably scared them off of making the move. At the time though, the Big-12 was thought to be dead, but a lifeline was thrown to the conference and the reports were that behind the scenes people decided they didn't want to see that domino fall. The new deal, though built on uneven revenue sharing and bolstered by buyout money, promised to cut in Texas A&M at the top rate, and for a little while at least equal what the SEC would be paying. So, they held things together.

This worked for a bit, then it came out that the Longhorn Network was going to broadcast a Big-12 conference game. Now, I didn't figure out why that was allowed, but imagine how the entire conference took it. Texas was selling other team's games as their own, that's messed up and they managed somehow to pull that off. From there, the SEC just had to finally see common sense and go pick up A&M and Missouri.

Oklahoma and Texas have decided for better or worse that their fates should be tied together. Texas doesn't care about other programs, they never have, they don't even care about Oklahoma. They do, however feel very self important and having Oklahoma follow them around seems to cater to that. Oklahoma? They're a tiny state, Texas players make up almost half their roster, Texas provides a much larger audience. I suppose they feel as long as they're relevant in Texas, they're relevant period.
Yeah I was living in Omaha when this stuff started happening. I remember Missouri, Nebraska, and ou were all friendly to each other but it all changed when ou supported Texas. I just don't get ou. If the sec truly offered them refuge then why didn't they take it? Was it something to do with okie lite, ou too proud to do it, or fear of competition. Personally I'm sorta glad they did t come here but they look really stupid for flirting with the PAC 12 publicly after aTm had enough only to come begging daddy to take them back a week later
 

GrayTide

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http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/swc/schools.html

Just a little history of the SWC, its members and records. Notice Oklahoma and Oklahoma State (then Oklahoma A&M) were original members founded in 1914. They plus Arkansas were the only non Texas members. Arkansas left after the 1991 season for the SEC and Houston, Rice, TCU and SMU where dumped after the 1995 season. So the original Big 12 had only 4 teams from the old SWC ( Texas, TAMU, Baylor and TTU ) plus all the Big 8 schools.

It would have appeared that the Big 8, led by its two powers Nebraska and Oklahoma, would have had far more power and could have exerted their influence on the new conference. Somewhere in the initial formation and for reasons already mentioned by KrAzY; Oklahoma switched its allegiance and forever tied itself to the coat tails of Texas. It betrayed its fellow Big 8 schools which over time led to Nebraska, Colorado, TAMU and Missouri bailing for much better and more lucrative conferences. I would not be surprised at some point to see Texas and Oklahoma jumping to the PAC 12 and leaving the Big 12 to dissolve.
 

NoNC4Tubs

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This may be a well written article, but I'm going to avoid clicking on his site. He is certainly no friend of Alabama. Clay Travis falls into the category of "flame thrower journalism" and really likes to stir things up when he can. I also don't like Fox Sports so I'll pass.
Clay Travis is a moron! :cool2:
 

NoNC4Tubs

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What was the deal that kept Oklahoma in the big 12 because I knew mizzou was ready to leave at a moments notice and would be a big 10 team had Nebraska not seen the writing on the wall. I just remember after aTm announced their intentions Oklahoma explored the PAC 12, but didn't want to go to the SeC because of academics. So was it just an act of them trying to leave or was Oklahoma also wanting to get away from Texas ?
OU isn't going anywhere without OSU........:rolleyes:
 

81usaf92

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OU isn't going anywhere without OSU........:rolleyes:
and that makes no sense either. Oklahoma would opt out of more money to preserve a rivalry that is more lopsided than Tennessee-Kentucky. Atleast Kentucky has got in the twenties of wins over tennessee and that is with a 26 game losing streak. and the UK-UT have played 110 times with Tennessee winning 70 percent of the games and Bedlam has been played 109 times with OU winning 77.06 percent of the times. I understand having a rivalry is neccessary for most teams not named LSU but its not like aTm,Florida,and Alabama couldnt been a rivalry with them. But just that alone seems to point that OU wouldve been a pain in the butt for the SEC. If we expand again we need to pass on OU.
 

CullmanTide

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I agree Oklahoma would have been a bad decision for the SEC. Adding a team with similar tradition to Alabama that brought fewer TV sets than Missouri and A&M is one sided.
 

KrAzY3

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I just don't get ou. If the sec truly offered them refuge then why didn't they take it? Was it something to do with okie lite, ou too proud to do it, or fear of competition. Personally I'm sorta glad they did t come here but they look really stupid for flirting with the PAC 12 publicly after aTm had enough only to come begging daddy to take them back a week later
Well, as far as the Pac thing, it seemed to me that Texas was the ringleader and at that point OU already committed to be be their sidekick. As to the SEC? I'd like to think it was just some strategic move by the SEC, that there never was a commitable offer, but more realistically it probably had to do with leaving Okie State and Texas behind. I do think the SEC is better off without them. I suppose OU just sees themselves are reliant on Texas and that's that. But, if Texas ever does bolt to the Big 10 or Pac-12, there's no guarantee Oklahoma can come along...

I guess that gets into the genius of the ESPN deal. ESPN now can influence the Big 12's ability to form a network, as well as Texas' ability to move to the Pac-12 or Big 10. Both have networks, neither are likely to let Texas have a competing network, so ESPN holds a lot of power there.

Somewhere in the initial formation and for reasons already mentioned by KrAzY; Oklahoma switched its allegiance and forever tied itself to the coat tails of Texas. It betrayed its fellow Big 8 schools which over time led to Nebraska, Colorado, TAMU and Missouri bailing for much better and more lucrative conferences. I would not be surprised at some point to see Texas and Oklahoma jumping to the PAC 12 and leaving the Big 12 to dissolve.
There's no doubt that the Big-12 schools do not trust Texas or Oklahoma this point. Baylor, Kansas, etc... all know they were almost left out in the cold once, and the Longhorn Network is a constant reminder. One need look no further than the fact that Colorado, Nebraska, and Missouri left to see how they took OU's betrayal, and if Kansas had any option to leave they'd take it to (I feel sorry for them, they're a productive school getting taken advantage of). Those bridges are all burned, but either side needs a viable option I guess.

The Big 12 stuff had just been so weird. Back when the Big 12 still appeared very week, the SEC throws them a lifeline for inexplicable reasons (since the Big 12 just backstabbed them anyway, by backing conference champion criteria) and makes a bowl agreement. Then when FSU was upset with the ACC, you had that talk of FSU and Clemson to the Big 12, which was averted by a combination of a massive buyout and Notre Dame (which the Big 12 apparently wanted) coming to the ACC's rescue. Some of the conference stuff I get, some I don't...

I agree Oklahoma would have been a bad decision for the SEC. Adding a team with similar tradition to Alabama that brought fewer TV sets than Missouri and A&M is one sided.
Oklahoma was always a bad addition for the SEC. I think at the time a lot of people thought otherwise, but now with the SEC Network, it's not so hard to explain why taking team's from the two biggest Big 12 states made the most sense.
 

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