Steve Shaw Tells JOX's The Roundtable Matt Moore and Penn Wagers Retired

Roll Tide 57

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We all have opinions usually over one or 2 play calls in a game then the refs get branded. I don't think Wagers is crooked or out to get Bama, I think he is just a bad official & his whole crew is bad, all the time for everyone. Maybe the grades his crew got lead him to move on.

I like Matt Moores crew but they mess up sometimes just human the way I see it.

If you talked to CNS privately & he confided in you, my bet would be he would have Tom Ritters crew for every game. He uses his crew a lot for A Day & that Extra money. I like Ritters Crew.

Finally, I think the SEC has the best crews overall because of the accountability from Steve Shaw. A few years back they did suspend a entire crew.

But I'm glad to see Wagers go, I think he may have been told it was time.
 

GreatMarch

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Incompetence? I still remember Wagers throwing the flag on Lassic in the 1993 Sugar Bowl for excessive celebration.
I think it was Rogers Redding and his Southwest Conference crew that called the '93 Sugar Bowl against Miami. The call that you might be thinking of in regards to Penn Wagers was against Arkansas in Bryant Denny in 2003 in overtime. I believe that we intercepted a pass in the end zone on Arkansas' first overtime possession (and they had the ball first in overtime) and Charlie Peprah got a bit excited and was flagged for excessive celebration. That caused our drive to start from the 40 instead of the 25 yard line in our first overtime possession. We ended up attempting and missing, something like, a 45 yard game winning field goal instead of a 35 yard field goal. Then we went on to lose the game.....

Moore was a pretty good official as was his crew. Ritter seems to be pretty good as well, as his crew. Someone also mentioned Marc Curles, but I do not think that he has ever called an Alabama game. I know that he is a Georgia Tech grad but I do not recall him ever officiating one of our games. I know that alumni cannot work their alma mater games and I know coaches can petition the SEC about not having certain crews work their games. Maybe Saban does not want Curles calling any of our games? I know when Tubbs was at AU he did not want any former Bama players calling any AU games.

Wagers, I would be upset to see that guy officiating my nephews youth league games.......
 

imauafan

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I think it was Rogers Redding and his Southwest Conference crew that called the '93 Sugar Bowl against Miami. The call that you might be thinking of in regards to Penn Wagers was against Arkansas in Bryant Denny in 2003 in overtime. I believe that we intercepted a pass in the end zone on Arkansas' first overtime possession (and they had the ball first in overtime) and Charlie Peprah got a bit excited and was flagged for excessive celebration. That caused our drive to start from the 40 instead of the 25 yard line in our first overtime possession. We ended up attempting and missing, something like, a 45 yard game winning field goal instead of a 35 yard field goal. Then we went on to lose the game.....

Moore was a pretty good official as was his crew. Ritter seems to be pretty good as well, as his crew. Someone also mentioned Marc Curles, but I do not think that he has ever called an Alabama game. I know that he is a Georgia Tech grad but I do not recall him ever officiating one of our games. I know that alumni cannot work their alma mater games and I know coaches can petition the SEC about not having certain crews work their games. Maybe Saban does not want Curles calling any of our games? I know when Tubbs was at AU he did not want any former Bama players calling any AU games.

Wagers, I would be upset to see that guy officiating my nephews youth league games.......
You're right, it was Redding. Rogers, Wagers, easy to get those names confused in this old brain of mine. :)
 
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JDCrimson

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Who was the official in the LSU game back during the Shula era that completely ignored the pass interference allowing the dB to tackle the receiver and then intercept the ball for a touchdown?
 

Tidewater

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I'm no fan of the guy, but, to be fair, spinning the ball was a particular point of emphasis in the excessive celebration rule training at that time. It's a ticky-tack call, but he pretty much had to make it.
And yet he (whoever he was) failed to make the exact same call on the exact same activity by a Miami player later in the game when Miami finally scored a touchdown during the same game. Was the guidance to call the penalty on spinning the ball only during the first half?

I've heard baseball players say they do not mind a tight strike zone or a loose one, as long as it is called consistently. Without consistency, an official is worse than useless.
 
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GreatMarch

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Who was the official in the LSU game back during the Shula era that completely ignored the pass interference allowing the dB to tackle the receiver and then intercept the ball for a touchdown?
I do not know who the head linesman and side judge were as both were standing there staring at the infraction, but the ref for that game was none other than............ Penn Wagers!
 

CB4

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"Hello...Mr. Wagers? Frank Costanza with the Del Boca Vista Condo Association. Listen, we've got some real problems with you so we're shipping you off to the Atlantic Coast Conference. No hard feelings....."
 

deltatider

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I don't pay enough attention to know one crew from another, but I will say this...It seems to me that in every big SEC game the refs seem to make at least one call that affects the outcome of the game. In my opinion a good crew is one that is not noticed throughout the game. It seems that is not usually the case with sec refs. They always seem to put themselves right in the middle of the outcome. I will say though that I personally can't tell that one team in particular gets most of the calls. They seem to be equally incompetent...
 

selmaborntidefan

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And yet he (whoever he was) failed to make the exact same call on the exact same activity by a Miami player later in the game when Miami finally scored a touchdown during the same game. Was the guidance to call the penalty on spinning the ball only during the first half?

I've heard baseball players say they do not mind a tight strike zone or a loose one, as long as it is called consistently. Without consistency, an official is worse than useless.
Yes and no.

At the 2:13:26 mark on the above post, y'all can see this. There is a SLIGHT difference although I concur with you. Lassic spun the ball on the ground like a top. Granted, I thought even that was too "ticky" and should not have been called; it cost us four points. Kevin Williams DID spin the ball slightly coming out of his hand ("dropping" it as opposed to, say, spiking it, but that might have been considered "incidental").

However - my problem with that is that the ONLY reason that Lassic's penalty even got called was because MIAMI was the team that had gotten flagged for over 200 yards of penalties in the 1991 Cotton Bowl against Texas. Officials were trying to tone down the nonsense. Ok, fair enough....but then you DON'T call something ticky against the team that CAUSED all of this?

What makes it nuts is that Lassic honestly thought he'd scored a TD or he would not have spun the ball. Williams DID score a TD and apparently that was the difference in deciding to call it. What I'm saying is that I can see a "very slight" difference in it (which would merit a non-call) but I don't think the one on Lassic should have been called anyway. Williams's spin drop was MILD for Miami back then - ref might not have even noticed and was probably waiting for the backflip/high five/California Quake/Fun Bunch routine.

Johnny Bench remarked that the only time catchers get angry at home plate umpires is when you been setting up a guy all game long in the same spot and all of a sudden a strike is called a ball on an "out" pitch. And that's all anyone wants.


However.......I don't have any sympathy with those here who are somehow wanting to pretend officials cost teams games. It RARELY happens - and might I add, I'm always amused by fans willing to overlook 50 different mistakes made by their own players (missed blocks, missed coverages, missed open receivers) and then haul off and blame an official for a bad call. Granted - there's LESS EXCUSE nowadays with the instant replay (and there are times I'm going..."what video are THEY watching?"). But it simply rarely happens. (I get no end of flack here for pointing out we still had a chance to score in the 1983 Penn State game and failed).

To me, it's like the Red Sox fans blaming Buckner and conveniently forgetting the score was already tied when he made his error......and that game 7 was rained out and delayed a day, which enabled the Sox to come back with their post-season ace Bruce Hurst and spot him a 3-0 lead.

Good post, though.
 

JessN

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Who was the official in the LSU game back during the Shula era that completely ignored the pass interference allowing the dB to tackle the receiver and then intercept the ball for a touchdown?
That would be Blake Parks. He was the side judge. The referee on the crew was indeed Wagers and the look on his face after the play was that it was definitely interference and should have been called. But a referee isn't supposed to step in and call something like that when it wasn't in his zone. For that matter, Wagers shouldn't have even been looking down there.

Here's the Tuscaloosa News story on the no-call. If you can't click through, the short of it is that Bobby Gaston, then the SEC chairman of officials, said it was a blown call: http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20041115/NEWS/41115001

As for Parks, I believe he is a UK grad but lives now in middle Tennessee.
 

crimsonaudio

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That would be Blake Parks.
It weird that Wagers' crews have made so many bad / missed calls over the years, considering the crews rotate. That's why I'm happy to see him go - at this point, I have to believe there's something about his leadership that brings out the worst in his fellow officials.
 

TrampLineman

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I've heard baseball players say they do not mind a tight strike zone or a loose one, as long as it is called consistently. Without consistency, an official is worse than useless.
You are correct. If an ump has a terrible zone you at least want him to call it consistently. If you go up as a batter and have no idea what you can swing at and not swing at, you are already in a hole and will more than likely get out. If he is at least consistent you figure out the zone and adjust. If he is all over the place then look out.
 

selmaborntidefan

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You are correct. If an ump has a terrible zone you at least want him to call it consistently. If you go up as a batter and have no idea what you can swing at and not swing at, you are already in a hole and will more than likely get out. If he is at least consistent you figure out the zone and adjust. If he is all over the place then look out.
Somehow it brought this game to mind.



You give me that big a strike zone and I could have fanned 15 Braves.
 

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