UAB reinstates football for 2016

Rama Jama · Jun 8, 2015

TheAccountant said:
Why have those other cities outgrown Birmingham and gotten a pro team?
Because Birmingham and the region has had short-sighted, corrupt, and petty politicians due in part to it's sordid Civil Rights past. The issue is not local fan support but a general ineptness of our leaders in the past 30+ years.

Hopefully, the success of the Barons, Indy Race at Barber, NCAA soccer championships, and Davis Cup in the last few years will show that the region can and does support sporting events outside of Alabama and Auburn. But the 'pro' team shipped has sailed years ago. There's too many other viable cities with much larger metros and corporate interests for Birmingham ever to get an NFL franchise.

Now you're being dense in creating a straw man. Where did I ever write UAB would be some big time winner in D1 football? I simply responded to one aspect of your post showing where you were wrong in what Birmingham has/hasn't supported. I said nothing of UABs chances of major success on the field.

For the record, I do not believe UAB will ever be a major contender in football but they certainly could be competitive in their league. If they played outside of the dump that is Legion Field and offered competitive ticket packages and family friendly promotions I could easily see them filling up a 35-40k seat stadium most games, not every game but most games. There's simply too many people getting priced out of a game experience in Tuscaloosa or Auburn that would like to enjoy a game with their kids without taking out an equity loan.

I am not the one who was called ignorant. You have some points, but you want someone else to pay for it. Did you ever pay to to a UAB game? This is my point, You can't compare the Barons who are the oldest minor league affiliate in the US to UAB football. Absolutely apples to oranges. The only way UAB can draw paying customers is to have a product fans will be willing to pay to see.

I have nothing against UAB having a team, but an FCS team makes no sense. You don't compete against the big boys with big boy expenses and expect people will show up simply because you have a team. Fans want to support winning teams, not 6-6 teams. Fans go to Alabama and Auburn games because they believe they will see their team win. This is not the case here. 6 or 7 years down the road, I expect we'll be here discussing the same issues with UAB. You want to go to a UAB game in the future and I applaud you for doing so, just don't do it on the UA systems money or tax payer money. That is all I ask. You want a new stadium built, but the economics are not there. 40,000 fans 6 times a year at 25 a ticket won't pay for a 150,000 million dollar stadium. Add a half dozen concerts there and there would be another 6 million and then take out the expenses and you still have a loss. 12 million revenue won't even be close to break even on the stadium and football team. You are an accountant. Do the math.

I also agree that it is becoming too expensive to go to games for a family in Tuscaloosa. I have thought this would become an issue at Alabama, but fans continue to buy tickets at unbelievable prices. I have had tickets for probably 25 years( my wife works there) and even those are expensive. Every seat aside from the students, faculty, and visitors are Tide Pride. Eventually this has to end or we'll lose the younger generation because they will not be able to afford to go. We probably agree on more things than we disagree about, but there is not need for name calling either.

TheAccountant · Jun 8, 2015

Rama Jama said:
I am not the one who was called ignorant. You have some points, but you want someone else to pay for it. Did you ever pay to to a UAB game? This is my point, You can't compare the Barons who are the oldest minor league affiliate in the US to UAB football. Absolutely apples to oranges. The only way UAB can draw paying customers is to have a product fans will be willing to pay to see.

I have nothing against UAB having a team, but an FCS team makes no sense. You don't compete against the big boys with big boy expenses and expect people will show up simply because you have a team. Fans want to support winning teams, not 6-6 teams. Fans go to Alabama and Auburn games because they believe they will see their team win. This is not the case here. 6 or 7 years down the road, I expect we'll be here discussing the same issues with UAB. You want to go to a UAB game in the future and I applaud you for doing so, just don't do it on the UA systems money or tax payer money. That is all I ask. You want a new stadium built, but the economics are not there. 40,000 fans 6 times a year at 25 a ticket won't pay for a 150,000 million dollar stadium. Add a half dozen concerts there and there would be another 6 million and then take out the expenses and you still have a loss. 12 million revenue won't even be close to break even on the stadium and football team. You are an accountant. Do the math.

I also agree that it is becoming too expensive to go to games for a family in Tuscaloosa. I have thought this would become an issue at Alabama, but fans continue to buy tickets at unbelievable prices. I have had tickets for probably 25 years( my wife works there) and even those are expensive. Every seat aside from the students, faculty, and visitors are Tide Pride. Eventually this has to end or we'll lose the younger generation because they will not be able to afford to go. We probably agree on more things than we disagree about, but there is not need for name calling either.

There was no name calling. You made a blanket statement that showed you lacked knowledge in re: to fan support of Birmingham teams.

Why do you care what I as a citizen of Birmingham and Jefferson County advocate my taxes go towards? Are you a citizen here or Tuscaloosa? I believe a stadium would benefit the citizenry outside of UAB and provide another venue to attract sporting events away from the Hoover Met.

Where are you getting the $150 million quote from? Thin air? The last time a stadium was proposed a few years ago the cost was pegged at $75 million. Inflation hasn't doubled the cost in time frame. Of course it wouldn't make financial sense for one entity to fund it all but if there is a school/municipality/private partnership that shares the burden why do you care? Even if/when UAB drops down due to consolidation of the power conferences the team will still need a place to play.

cuda.1973 · Jun 8, 2015

TheAccountant said:
Where are you getting the $150 million quote from? Thin air? The last time a stadium was proposed a few years ago the cost was pegged at $75 million. Inflation hasn't doubled the cost in time frame. Of course it wouldn't make financial sense for one entity to fund it all but if there is a school/municipality/private partnership that shares the burden why do you care? Even if/when UAB drops down due to consolidation of the power conferences the team will still need a place to play.

Not trying to throw gasoline on the fire, but here are some facts about our HS stadium (the one everyone was horrified over, since it was so.............well, Texan!):

It holds 18k, and was built at a cost of $60M. (Yes, it is supposedly fixed: they held commencement there, this year.) It houses a weight training facility, and a wrestling facility. It also has indoor practice ranges for the boy and girls golf teams.

It has a scoreboard that is 75’ x 45’, with 38’ x 23’ HD screen.

Most of the seating is bench seating, with 6,500 reserved bench seats with bench backs including 5,000 on home side and 1,500 reserved on visitor side.

The press box has 3 floors. Each floor is 140' x 42'.

So, add >20k seats, all with backs, and luxury suites (can't imagine any stadium being built now without that additional revenue source), and $75M might be a bit on the low side.

Let's assume the funding is there. We won't discuss how much of it is taxpayer funded. The simple fact B'ham and Jefferson Co. will have their fingers in it pretty much dooms it to another fiasco.

Speaking as someone who used to pay taxes back there, the idea of playing FCS (or lower), at The Met, makes more sense than letting the same ol' corrupt politicians get another chance to show their ineptness.

KrAzY3 · Jun 8, 2015

cuda.1973 said:
Speaking as someone who used to pay taxes back there, the idea of playing FCS (or lower), at The Met, makes more sense than letting the same ol' corrupt politicians get another chance to show their ineptness.

Yes, but UAB deserves to have a FBS program because Alabama and Auburn get to have one...

Edit: What you won't get from people who are advocating to spend tens of millions of dollars to buy UAB a stadium is that they simply have done nothing to deserve it and don't have the fans to support it. They won't acknowledge the fact that an athletic department that wasted 19 million dollars last year, doesn't deserve another penny and rather should be put on a much, much tighter budget.

Contrast this with Alabama A&M, whose entire athletic department was run on 7.2 million (remember UAB lost 19 million) and has a FCS program with a history (and sadly more bowl games that UAB). Now, here's what it gets interesting. In 2013, UAB had an average attendance of 10,548 for a total of 52,739 (and this is with the city spending hundreds of thousands annually on tickets). Alabama A&M? 9,711 with a total of 48,555. UAB has no business in the FBS, period, end of story.

81usaf92 · Jun 8, 2015

TheAccountant said:
There was no name calling. You made a blanket statement that showed you lacked knowledge in re: to fan support of Birmingham teams.

Why do you care what I as a citizen of Birmingham and Jefferson County advocate my taxes go towards? Are you a citizen here or Tuscaloosa? I believe a stadium would benefit the citizenry outside of UAB and provide another venue to attract sporting events away from the Hoover Met.

Where are you getting the $150 million quote from? Thin air? The last time a stadium was proposed a few years ago the cost was pegged at $75 million. Inflation hasn't doubled the cost in time frame. Of course it wouldn't make financial sense for one entity to fund it all but if there is a school/municipality/private partnership that shares the burden why do you care? Even if/when UAB drops down due to consolidation of the power conferences the team will still need a place to play.

I think the two biggest questions that need to be answered are where the stadium will be built and how much will the city of Birmingham have their hands in. Birmingham is run down and congested for the most part, and its really hard to imagine where they could put a football stadium that is in a comfortable location. Hoover on the other hand is a growing city that may rival Birmingham in size in the next 20-30 years and it is well kept. If Hoover or Homewood could get the stadium then it could work but Birmingham's congestion and politics are not in favor of UAB

CB4 · Jun 8, 2015

cuda.1973 said:
Not trying to throw gasoline on the fire, but here are some facts about our HS stadium (the one everyone was horrified over, since it was so.............well, Texan!):

It holds 18k, and was built at a cost of $60M. (Yes, it is supposedly fixed: they held commencement there, this year.) It houses a weight training facility, and a wrestling facility. It also has indoor practice ranges for the boy and girls golf teams.

It has a scoreboard that is 75’ x 45’, with 38’ x 23’ HD screen.

Most of the seating is bench seating, with 6,500 reserved bench seats with bench backs including 5,000 on home side and 1,500 reserved on visitor side.

The press box has 3 floors. Each floor is 140' x 42'.

So, add >20k seats, all with backs, and luxury suites (can't imagine any stadium being built now without that additional revenue source), and $75M might be a bit on the low side.

Let's assume the funding is there. We won't discuss how much of it is taxpayer funded. The simple fact B'ham and Jefferson Co. will have their fingers in it pretty much dooms it to another fiasco.

Speaking as someone who used to pay taxes back there, the idea of playing FCS (or lower), at The Met, makes more sense than letting the same ol' corrupt politicians get another chance to show their ineptness.

UCF spent $55 million to build their on campus stadium (capacity 45K) in 2007 (which is about $65 million in 2015 dollars). Plus they are spending another $8 million in 2015 to renovated it. They got $15 million in naming rights from Brighthouse. And this stadium is nothing super special so I could see UAB needing $75-80 million to build one.

Two big differences: First UCF has 52,000 undergraduate to support the program. Second, they have a population base in Orlando that can help support the program even after you remove the Gator, Seminole, and Hurricane fans.

And I agree with you, Cuda. These are the same people that put the County in bankruptcy with crooked dealings with the Sewer project. How the heck can you trust them to do the right thing?

If the Blazers want a stadium, tell the student body, the alumni, and the administration to have a bake sale.

rolltide7854 · Jun 8, 2015

Let's think about this. Does anyone think that the same city and county that built a sewer for about bajillion dollars can be counted on building a football stadium for a dollar less than 500 million is kidding themselves.

BamaInBham · Jun 9, 2015

I am a Bham resident and a UAB grad and I care very much that NO TAX dollars be spent for a stadium and as a Bama fan I want not a penny spent from the UA system athletic fund.

A few years ago a presidential election exit poll in Bham included a question asking what collegiate football/athletic program the voter supported, if any. The results were 48% Bama, 20% AU and 8% UAB. It is amazing that the UAB athletic admin would be so stupid so as to alienate such a large potential market. It is one thing for a fanbase to be batty, it's another for the school officials to be. I guess Gene Bartow and Gary Sanders can be thanked for creating such an atmosphere and attitude of entitlement and confrontation as well as a general anti-Bama bias. I used to occasionally attend basketball and football games with a friend who though a UAB professor, was primarily a Bama fan. I, a UAB grad as I said, would never go now and I'm sure there are others like me. Their sense of entitlement is exceeded only by their lack of wisdom - 48 to 8.

81usaf92 · Jun 9, 2015

BamaInBham said:
I am a Bham resident and a UAB grad and I care very much that NO TAX dollars be spent for a stadium and as a Bama fan I want not a penny spent from the UA system athletic fund.

A few years ago a presidential election exit poll in Bham included a question asking what collegiate football/athletic program the voter supported, if any. The results were 48% Bama, 20% AU and 8% UAB. It is amazing that the UAB athletic admin would be so stupid so as to alienate such a large potential market. It is one thing for a fanbase to be batty, it's another for the school officials to be. I guess Gene Bartow and Gary Sanders can be thanked for creating such an atmosphere and attitude of entitlement and confrontation as well as a general anti-Bama bias. I used to occasionally attend basketball and football games with a friend who though a UAB professor, was primarily a Bama fan. I, a UAB grad as I said, would never go now and I'm sure there are others like me. Their sense of entitlement is exceeded only by their lack of wisdom - 48 to 8.

I think the entitlement factor came from two things 1) the city of bham more or less made the iron bowl a spectacle 2) Hoover under propst. Bds and jhs were not as big as legion field and bham was thriving in the 60s to 80s. I do enjoy the nostalgia of the games being in bham and that it was a neutral crowd amidst a divided hostile state but legion field and bham have regressed big time over the years and bds and jhs are super nice stadiums. One of the biggest reasons uab got a team was to keep legion field.

Hoover added to the entitlement because of propst made a football factory right outside of bham. In the early 2000s if you started at Hoover you would be recruited by an sec team very quick. Look at bama and auburn's rosters in that time period and you will see loads of bucs players. Hoover then got the mtv show that painted bham as the highschool football city, USA when I'm reality it's more or less Hoover, homewood, and then everyone else. Hoover gave bham natives a reason to beat their chest, and they haven't stopped even though Hoover isn't quiet as dominant as they were under propst, and fewer recruits on our roster come from Hoover, homewood, or briarwood than they did under Shula. Most of them go to uab if they don't get serious looks from ua or au.

lowend · Jun 9, 2015

81usaf92 said:
I think the two biggest questions that need to be answered are where the stadium will be built and how much will the city of Birmingham have their hands in. Birmingham is run down and congested for the most part, and its really hard to imagine where they could put a football stadium that is in a comfortable location. Hoover on the other hand is a growing city that may rival Birmingham in size in the next 20-30 years and it is well kept. If Hoover or Homewood could get the stadium then it could work but Birmingham's congestion and politics are not in favor of UAB

I'll vehemently disagree with this. Getting into and out of the Met was an absolute mess. It could take an hour or more. With Regions Field you have many options for getting back on the interstate.

CB4 · Jun 9, 2015

BamaInBham said:
I am a Bham resident and a UAB grad and I care very much that NO TAX dollars be spent for a stadium and as a Bama fan I want not a penny spent from the UA system athletic fund.

A few years ago a presidential election exit poll in Bham included a question asking what collegiate football/athletic program the voter supported, if any. The results were 48% Bama, 20% AU and 8% UAB. It is amazing that the UAB athletic admin would be so stupid so as to alienate such a large potential market. It is one thing for a fanbase to be batty, it's another for the school officials to be. I guess Gene Bartow and Gary Sanders can be thanked for creating such an atmosphere and attitude of entitlement and confrontation as well as a general anti-Bama bias. I used to occasionally attend basketball and football games with a friend who though a UAB professor, was primarily a Bama fan. I, a UAB grad as I said, would never go now and I'm sure there are others like me. Their sense of entitlement is exceeded only by their lack of wisdom - 48 to 8.

I too am a UAB grad and B'ham resident. I grew up an Alabama fan but I supported both programs for many years. And you are correct about one thing. It is the sports fan in Birmingham, not the UAB fan, that has historically supported that program. The basketball program was successful because B'ham basketball fans (many that were Alabama fans) supported the program. When Gene acted like a spoiled child and fired off the letter to the NCAA, I was done with UAB athletics even as a UAB grad. The line was drawn and I was asked to make a choice. And I did.

If UAB wants a football program, training facilities, and a stadium then find a way to pay for them without reaching into my wallet as a tax payer. Look at the basketball program. It didn't get off the ground by UAB students, alumni, or administration making it happen. It happened via the support of Birmingham businesses and influential people in the city that had nothing to do with UAB. And I just do not see that with UAB football.

You can take this to the bank: Once the first few games have been played, the hash tag activists and the Free UAB crowd will, for the most part, disappear. And the media talking heads that continued to fan the flames will move on to the next great sports "social injustice". And UAB football will once again be "the puppy that the children, for the most part, ignore".

Capt. Jack · Jun 9, 2015

Over the last 20-25 years, Birmingham has gone from "The Football Capital of the South" to "The Armpit of the South."

81usaf92 · Jun 9, 2015

lowend said:
I'll vehemently disagree with this. Getting into and out of the Met was an absolute mess. It could take an hour or more. With Regions Field you have many options for getting back on the interstate.

Parking at the Met is better than Legion Field and it is 100% nicer location. The met is bad getting out of during the SEC tourney but aside from that its not too bad. Regions is nicer but that is Bham controlling so thats not the point I was making. Im saying that Hoover and Homewood would take care of UAB far better than Bham and they are better locations than Bham

formersoldier71 · Jul 21, 2015

Almost two months after UAB president Ray Watts announced football was being reinstated, in large part due to $17.2 million in pledges from supporters, only $28,000 has actually been given to the program, according to a source close to the athletic department.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/07/majority_of_uab_pledge_dollars.html#incart_river

The money's coming though, just like butts in seats.

Redwood Forrest · Jul 21, 2015

I see what they are getting at, but still I would be worried about counting them chickens before they hatch. I don't know what the national average is of fulfilling a pledge but I imagine many B'hamers got caught up in the "underdog" emotion and pledged.

TideEngineer08 · Jul 21, 2015

People are so stupid. I still fail to see what the University of Alabama had to gain by torpedoing UAB football. Someone please explain that to me in a way other than oh Paul Bryant Jr. is on the BOT (like that explains anything at all). I can see how much they have to lose since UAB doesn't put 10,000 people in the stands on average. Have any of these media types who have championed UAB's return even ever been to a UAB game?

CB4 · Jul 21, 2015

TideEngineer08 said:
People are so stupid. I still fail to see what the University of Alabama had to gain by torpedoing UAB football. Someone please explain that to me in a way other than oh Paul Bryant Jr. is on the BOT (like that explains anything at all). I can see how much they have to lose since UAB doesn't put 10,000 people in the stands on average. Have any of these media types who have championed UAB's return even ever been to a UAB game?

They probably have been to a game (maybe). But media types don't pay to get in. That's why I chuckle when media talking heads champion a cause like UAB football. Of course they are all about it. They don't have to reach in their wallet to pay for anything.

4Q Basket Case · Jul 21, 2015

A few points:

First, news media don't pay to get in anywhere. As a group, they're notorious freeloaders with a seriously annoying sense of entitlement.

Second, they naturally gravitate to the underdog because that's what they themselves have always been.

Finally, they have ignored what Watts actually said, and interpreted it as they wish it were.

Watts didn't say football was coming back. He said UAB would support the football team going forward to a specified extent (which, BTW, if he'd done from the outset, he would have avoided all this mess). He further said the rest would have to come from private pledges.

What he left out was the part about collected private pledges.

After all the hoo-rah died out, and we heard nothing for months, I remarked to Mrs. Basket Case that the part about collections was deafeningly silent, and that I thought the collections part wasn't materializing.

Comes today's article saying that less than two-tenths of a percent of the $17 million+ in pledges had actually been collected. Coincided nicely with a push on this morning's news by UAB boosters that the corporate community needed to support UAB football for the economic impact it has on the city (?!?).

I've never seen my two main questions answered:

First, how many football tickets has the UAB athletic department sold, at face, to the end users whose butts are in the seats?

Second, given that almost nobody pays anything (or at least, anything close to face), and almost nobody comes in from out of town to eat, drink, and sleep anywhere other than their own bed, what is the economic impact of UAB football, and what are the assumptions underlying the number?

81usaf92 · Jul 21, 2015

4Q Basket Case said:
A few points:

After all the hoo-rah died out, and we heard nothing for months, I remarked to Mrs. Basket Case that the part about collections was deafeningly silent, and that I thought the collections part wasn't materializing.

Comes today's article saying that less than two-tenths of a percent of the $17 million+ in pledges had actually been collected. Coincided nicely with a push on this morning's news by UAB boosters that the corporate community needed to support UAB football for the economic impact it has on the city (?!?).
?

Well I think the saying" Everyone wants to save the whales, but noone wants to help mom with the dishes" applies here.

I really dont care about the taxpayer arguement or the attendence argument like some here do. I think the support is the real issue. Ive seen small town highschools have better support systems than UAB. Bham has never been able to support anything on its own so why expect it now. Alabama and Auburn were smart to get the heck out of dodge when the did. But you cant tell some of these people that Bham will stab UAB in the back. How can you trust a city that spent a fortune of taxpayer money on a sewer system that never got built and pocketed all the cash. Tony Kuric keeps the crazies beleiving its going to be different, but we all know where this is going.

4Q Basket Case · Jul 21, 2015

81usaf92 said:
Well I think the saying" Everyone wants to save the whales, but noone wants to help mom with the dishes" applies here.

I really dont care about the taxpayer arguement or the attendence argument like some here do. I think the support is the real issue. Ive seen small town highschools have better support systems than UAB. Bham has never been able to support anything on its own so why expect it now. Alabama and Auburn were smart to get the heck out of dodge when the did. But you cant tell some of these people that Bham will stab UAB in the back. How can you trust a city that spent a fortune of taxpayer money on a sewer system that never got built and pocketed all the cash. Tony Kuric keeps the crazies beleiving its going to be different, but we all know where this is going.

The taxpayer argument is the inverse of the one for school and private support. If neither the school (which is largely taxpayer supported), nor the private sector (whether individuals or the business community) contribute, you have two choices: taxpayer support beyond what's already there via the school, or shutdown.

Attendance, most especially paid attendance, is a significant barometer of the support a program has.

Absent the extremes: no-shows for a major program (attendance at the Charleston Southern game this fall in Tuscaloosa), or rampant purchase-and-give-away welfare (as UAB has benefitted from in the Birmingham community since inception of the D-1 program) it's pretty dang accurate for the significant majority of programs.

If by neither the need for taxpayer support, nor attendance / purchase of tickets by actual users, how would you measure "support"?

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