Link: Let The QB Battle Begin (and other Fall Camp discussion)...

CrimsonEyeshade

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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

An 8-5 auburn team (that most thought was not very good) hung 44 points on us at BDS. That should have been a tipoff that we would have to outscore tOSU, and Oregon if we had won, because our defense was not very good.
The second weakest in the Saban era, but without question the most disappointing.
 

alwayshavebeen

All-SEC
Sep 22, 2013
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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

An 8-5 auburn team (that most thought was not very good) hung 44 points on us at BDS. That should have been a tipoff that we would have to outscore tOSU, and Oregon if we had won, because our defense was not very good.
Not at all defending the play of our defense last year because it certainly had problems, but 17 of those points were directly related to INT's from Blake. Another 8 were at the end of the game when it was over.
Blake Sims did the best he could do all season, but if you watch replays of the Ole Miss, LSU, Auburn and OSU games it IMO is pretty apparent he had problems in those big games.
In no way am I bashing Blake, but let's be honest.
 
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bamacpa

All-American
Jul 19, 2006
4,783
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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

Man for man they were better?????
No way. OSU had more determination and motivation (that was obvious). It was evident in the way Jones fielded the opening kickoff and Yeldon not starting the game. I felt like I was watching a repeat of the 2013 barn game. They showed up like their ticket had already been punched to the NC and it was all just a formality.
The Buckeyes didn't really have any weak spots. We did, not many, but they were there.
 

TiderJack

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Jul 9, 2010
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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

Not at all defending the play of our defense last year because it certainly had problems, but 17 of those points were directly related to INT's from Blake. Another 8 were at the end of the game when it was over.
Blake Sims did the best he could do all season, but if you watch replays of the Ole Miss, LSU, Auburn and OSU games it IMO is pretty apparent he had problems in those big games.
In no way am I bashing Blake, but let's be honest.
Agreed. I was not going to say anything, but we did have a highly rated defense except we did not play well against the Barn and OSU. I know the level we are used to was bad 2 of those 3 last games but if I'm not mistaken we were a top 10 defenses (even higher before the Barn). My point is people remember the last things they saw so the national talking heads and some of our posters are saying our "D" was awful last year. I wish and I know the team wishes they played better in those games. Anyway we will be much improved on "D" this year and I believe a championship season.
 

JustNeedMe81

Hall of Fame
Sep 30, 2011
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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

I came back to see if there's anything on Cornwell.. but I guess not... since ya'll talking about OHIO State game.
 

Al A Bama

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Jun 24, 2011
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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

I am so desparate for football I am currently watching lingerie football and it is a rerun.
I was watching the 2nd half of the Alabama vs Barn game on the SEC Network this evening. If I had not known that we won, it was enough to give me a heart attack. I guess we stopped them just enough in the 2nd half to win 55 - 44.

What if Coach had not stayed with #6 at QB (Sims) after 3 Ints.? I don't think we would have or could have won without him.

I want to see the D put up a goose egg this year in the cow pasture with that BIG TV screen. The cows are going to enjoy grazing with that Big screen in their pasture! Maybe they should play the Chick-fil-a commercials to entertain the cows.
 

Tidewater

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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

Not at all defending the play of our defense last year because it certainly had problems, but 17 of those points were directly related to INT's from Blake. Another 8 were at the end of the game when it was over.
I just went back and watched the Sugar Bowl 1st half and 14 of Bama's points came off OSU turnovers.
Bama's defense in that first half was atrocious. Awful. Especially on 3rd and long.
 

rtrbama1

1st Team
May 31, 2015
350
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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

Are there 30 days of practice before Wisconsin?

Which brings up the question: When do official practices begin?
Should be sometime between Aug. 5-7. My guess is August 5.
 

CullmanTide

Hall of Fame
Jan 7, 2008
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Cullman, Al
Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

Every season defenses tend to dominate early. As the season progresses offenses improve and it is reflected in higher scoring games. Had the barn game been played early it would have likely been a much lower scoring affair.
 

KrAzY3

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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

Not sure how much rest is a factor when you have almost a month between the games.
If you didn't know that Alabama went into that game with unhealthy players... well I'm not sure what you were doing but it wasn't posting here or listening to anything Alabama related. There are plenty of football related injuries that don't heal in one month and clearly didn't.

Beyond that, there is sheer physical and mental exhaustion. People that want Alabama to play more tough games, that want another playoff game, all this nonsense just don't seem to grasp how demanding a football game against top level competition is. One way to put it is that Nick Saban said a football team can only get up for so many big games a year. Almost every single game Alabama played last season was a big one.

To put it another way, there's a reason that boxers don't tend to fight one month apart. If they can, boxers want months to rest, to prepare, to get healthy. No one is going to tell a heavyweight who just was in a title fight against a contender that one month is plenty of time to rest. Alabama played the #2 SoS, the only higher SoS was for a team that played Alabama. If you take Alabama's SoS and multiply it by ten, it would still have been lower than Ohio State's. Furthermore, there's a reason a few SEC teams looked so lackluster in bowl games, and it was because they were just plain worn out and beat up. Now if you don't get it, I can't make you get it...
 
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CrimSonami

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Jul 17, 2011
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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

If you didn't know that Alabama went into that game with unhealthy players... well I'm not sure what you were doing but it wasn't posting here or listening to anything Alabama related. There are plenty of football related injuries that don't heal in one month and clearly didn't.

Beyond that, there is sheer physical and mental exhaustion. People that want Alabama to play more tough games, that want another playoff game, all this nonsense just don't seem to grasp how demanding a football game against top level competition is. One way to put it is that Nick Saban said a football team can only get up for so many big games a year. Almost every single game Alabama played last season was a big one.

To put it another way, there's a reason that boxers don't tend to fight one month apart. If they can, boxers want months to rest, to prepare, to get healthy. No one is going to tell a heavyweight who just was in a title fight against a contender that one month is plenty of time to rest. Alabama played the #2 SoS, the only higher SoS was for a team that played Alabama. If you take Alabama's SoS and multiply it by ten, it would still have been lower than Ohio State's. Furthermore, there's a reason a few SEC teams looked so lackluster in bowl games, and it was because they were just plain worn out and beat up. Now if you don't get it, I can't make you get it...
LIKE............... A LOT!!!

As an example ask yourself this question. How many recent top 3-4 round NFL draft picks from Alabama have played a portion of their final CFB season with an injury which required surgery and/or therapy? Think about that!

And I still think Cornwell will emerge as starter by week 3.
 

Mystical

All-American
Sep 28, 2009
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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

If you didn't know that Alabama went into that game with unhealthy players... well I'm not sure what you were doing but it wasn't posting here or listening to anything Alabama related. There are plenty of football related injuries that don't heal in one month and clearly didn't.

Beyond that, there is sheer physical and mental exhaustion. People that want Alabama to play more tough games, that want another playoff game, all this nonsense just don't seem to grasp how demanding a football game against top level competition is. One way to put it is that Nick Saban said a football team can only get up for so many big games a year. Almost every single game Alabama played last season was a big one.

To put it another way, there's a reason that boxers don't tend to fight one month apart. If they can, boxers want months to rest, to prepare, to get healthy. No one is going to tell a heavyweight who just was in a title fight against a contender that one month is plenty of time to rest. Alabama played the #2 SoS, the only higher SoS was for a team that played Alabama. If you take Alabama's SoS and multiply it by ten, it would still have been lower than Ohio State's. Furthermore, there's a reason a few SEC teams looked so lackluster in bowl games, and it was because they were just plain worn out and beat up. Now if you don't get it, I can't make you get it...

So you think we lost that game because we didn't get enough rest? Under Chris Petersen Boise must be the greatest team ever by your thinking. They always won that first game when both teams came in very rested. I always thought it was our great depth that separated us from the Boise States of the world. By the nature of football there will always be injuries from middle school to the pros. To think Ohio State didn't have as many if not more injuries than we had is laughable. Ezekiel Elliott had wrist surgery when the season ended and they don't win any of there last 3 games with out him. Alabama has the most talent top to bottom in the country. I would say Ohio State had better players in a few positions. QB they were better no disrespect to Blake. RB they were better not by much E.E was a freak of nature those last 3 games. Joey Bosa would have been the first player taken had he come out this year. We clearly had the best WR and it was not even close. Everything else is debatable DB, Saftey, OL. Outside of Bosa I would give DL to us. Most impressive they played us in a physical game than turned around the next game and beat the pants off Oregon. When I looked up Strength of Schedule Alabama was number one. Guess who was number 2. Ohio State.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team

I don't want to take anything away from that Ohio State team. I thought they played that game the right way. No hurry up gimmicks just power football like we play in the SEC. I want to play them again and have no doubt it would be revenge against UM part 2. No one beats us back to back.
 

KrAzY3

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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

So you think we lost that game because we didn't get enough rest?
First, let me say this. I think you speak from a slight position of ignorance, so while I am going to dispute some of your points, I just don't think you've really spent that much time looking into these issues. That's nothing against you, you hold some common beliefs. Also, I do, without question believe a healthy Alabama team beats a healthy Ohio State team last year. Having said that, no I wouldn't distill what happened in that particular scenario to not enough rest, but the team was beat up, plain and simple. They say playing in a football game is like a car crash, so playing in a SEC football game much be like a car crash on the interstate.

Under Chris Petersen Boise must be the greatest team ever by your thinking. They always won that first game when both teams came in very rested. I always thought it was our great depth that separated us from the Boise States of the world
I won't really dispute your last point, but no it's not merely great depth. It's better coaching, better players, etc... so why did Boise State perform as well as they were able to? I've made that exact point on this forum and it's funny you bring it up! It was because they were so well rested and focused! Let's say you are a general, and you are leading your men into battle. If you have only two tough battles for the entire year, do you think you and your men will be able to better prepare than if you have say ten tough battles in a year? Perhaps the occasional skirmish will sharpen your army a bit, but tough, weary battles only wear you down. People don't draw the correlation to football for some reason.

You see, what Boise St. did was play very well a couple times a year. But, that's so much easier to do when it's only a couple times a year! It's so much easier for Ohio State as well by the same comparison. If Alabama had more cupcakes on their schedule, they'd have more games to rest up, and more games in which they could afford to plan ahead. Alabama simply did not have that luxury, almost every team on Alabama's schedule was capable of beating a top 10 team. There were virtually no breathers, no easy games, no games in which Alabama could relax or shift their focus. Boise State thrived on that, they had so many easy games, and basically they could put all their energy and focus on those couple big games a year. That worked, there's no question that works, so it's funny that you brought that up as a counter point because it's actually part of the basis for my opinion on the matter.

To think Ohio State didn't have as many if not more injuries than we had is laughable...

When I looked up Strength of Schedule Alabama was number one. Guess who was number 2. Ohio State.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team
First, I think you are still missing the core point. CrimSonami alluded to it though. It's actually hurt Alabama in the draft a little bit, year after year we've found out that Alabama players who were playing were in fact injured, and required lengthy recoveries. Now, you are trying to paint football games are being equal, but they simply are not. Playing an SEC game is not like playing Boise State's schedule, it's just not. Boise State played games that were less physically and mentally demanding. And yes, playing in the Big 10 is less demanding as well, not by as much, but come on. We saw the cakewalk Ohio State had the past few seasons, just like FSU. Anyway, Alabama players, the ones that seem healthy are in fact often walking wounded, on a level that's not on par with most other schools. That's just how it is, because Alabama plays against tougher competition and is also afforded less rest playing better competition.

Now, I don't know what the team of chimps are up to at the esteemed "teamrankings.com", but I've seen plenty of bogus SoS and they obviously got their formula wrong. They put Oregon at #3 as well, which is also a joke but I believe I know what they did so I'll explain. You see, like RPI, SoS actually needs to be neutral towards the number of games played. It skews it in a way, yes, but it skews it more to take that extra game anything other than averaged with the rest of the games. So, Ohio State and Oregon by the merit of playing in the additional game got bumped all the way to #2 and #3. Even if you agree with that, the fact is Alabama played Ohio State prior to that game, so that bump doesn't factor in.

I use Sagarin, well respected, who uses you know, like real math and stuff, and was part of the BCS formula. He's too much of a professional to let his numbers get skewed that easily:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/2015/team/

As you can see, Alabama is #2, Ohio State is #29, Oregon is #20 and Auburn is #1 in SoS.

I don't want to take anything away from that Ohio State team. I thought they played that game the right way.
I do not disagree with you. My point, really is far beyond that game. Alabama fans have developed unrealistic expectations which include expecting superhuman efforts from players. For instance, Alabama had the #2 SoS in 2009 as well. GMac played the BCSCG game broken ribs. A: He broke those ribs against Florida is a very tough SECCG, B: Alabama would have almost certainly lost in a playoff. Would that team have been any worse of a team had they lost a playoff? No, they wouldn't have, they simply would have been pushed beyond their limits, and that is exactly my point. Sometimes that happens, it doesn't mean the team did anything wrong really.
 
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Mystical

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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

I will leave it at that. The only thing I care about is University of Alabama doing great athletically and academically in all areas. I believe we agree on more than we disagree. Those areas we disagree we can agree to disagree and move on.
 

alwayshavebeen

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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

I just went back and watched the Sugar Bowl 1st half and 14 of Bama's points came off OSU turnovers.
Bama's defense in that first half was atrocious. Awful. Especially on 3rd and long.
FWIW the part of my comment you quoted pertained only to the Auburn game.
 

Tidewater

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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

FWIW the part of my comment you quoted pertained only to the Auburn game.
Apologies for misquoting you.
That said, the Bama D gave up 44 points and 630 yards against Auburn, even if you ignore the final "oh, by the way" drive by the Barn, that is still a lot of yards (565) and points (36).
Last year's was just not one of the better Bama Ds. There were some great players, but man, were they frustrating to watch sometimes.
 

alwayshavebeen

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Re: Link: Let The Battle Begin: David Cornwell (speaks very highly of his progress)

Apologies for misquoting you.
That said, the Bama D gave up 44 points and 630 yards against Auburn, even if you ignore the final "oh, by the way" drive by the Barn, that is still a lot of yards (565) and points (36).
Last year's was just not one of the better Bama Ds. There were some great players, but man, were they frustrating to watch sometimes.
No problem. I agree it was hard to watch our D at times last year, especially the secondary. But, again 17 more of those points were directly attributed to INT's. IMO other than JK Scott we didn't have one of our better anythings last season but won 12 games, the SEC and made the playoff. Overachievers.
Really (as always) looking forward to what our team looks like this year. RTR
 

81usaf92

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Apr 26, 2008
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First, let me say this. I think you speak from a slight position of ignorance, so while I am going to dispute some of your points, I just don't think you've really spent that much time looking into these issues. That's nothing against you, you hold some common beliefs. Also, I do, without question believe a healthy Alabama team beats a healthy Ohio State team last year. Having said that, no I wouldn't distill what happened in that particular scenario to not enough rest, but the team was beat up, plain and simple. They say playing in a football game is like a car crash, so playing in a SEC football game much be like a car crash on the interstate.


I won't really dispute your last point, but no it's not merely great depth. It's better coaching, better players, etc... so why did Boise State perform as well as they were able to? I've made that exact point on this forum and it's funny you bring it up! It was because they were so well rested and focused! Let's say you are a general, and you are leading your men into battle. If you have only two tough battles for the entire year, do you think you and your men will be able to better prepare than if you have say ten tough battles in a year? Perhaps the occasional skirmish will sharpen your army a bit, but tough, weary battles only wear you down. People don't draw the correlation to football for some reason.

You see, what Boise St. did was play very well a couple times a year. But, that's so much easier to do when it's only a couple times a year! It's so much easier for Ohio State as well by the same comparison. If Alabama had more cupcakes on their schedule, they'd have more games to rest up, and more games in which they could afford to plan ahead. Alabama simply did not have that luxury, almost every team on Alabama's schedule was capable of beating a top 10 team. There were virtually no breathers, no easy games, no games in which Alabama could relax or shift their focus. Boise State thrived on that, they had so many easy games, and basically they could put all their energy and focus on those couple big games a year. That worked, there's no question that works, so it's funny that you brought that up as a counter point because it's actually part of the basis for my opinion on the matter.


First, I think you are still missing the core point. CrimSonami alluded to it though. It's actually hurt Alabama in the draft a little bit, year after year we've found out that Alabama players who were playing were in fact injured, and required lengthy recoveries. Now, you are trying to paint football games are being equal, but they simply are not. Playing an SEC game is not like playing Boise State's schedule, it's just not. Boise State played games that were less physically and mentally demanding. And yes, playing in the Big 10 is less demanding as well, not by as much, but come on. We saw the cakewalk Ohio State had the past few seasons, just like FSU. Anyway, Alabama players, the ones that seem healthy are in fact often walking wounded, on a level that's not on par with most other schools. That's just how it is, because Alabama plays against tougher competition and is also afforded less rest playing better competition.

Now, I don't know what the team of chimps are up to at the esteemed "teamrankings.com", but I've seen plenty of bogus SoS and they obviously got their formula wrong. They put Oregon at #3 as well, which is also a joke but I believe I know what they did so I'll explain. You see, like RPI, SoS actually needs to be neutral towards the number of games played. It skews it in a way, yes, but it skews it more to take that extra game anything other than averaged with the rest of the games. So, Ohio State and Oregon by the merit of playing in the additional game got bumped all the way to #2 and #3. Even if you agree with that, the fact is Alabama played Ohio State prior to that game, so that bump doesn't factor in.

I use Sagarin, well respected, who uses you know, like real math and stuff, and was part of the BCS formula. He's too much of a professional to let his numbers get skewed that easily:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/2015/team/

As you can see, Alabama is #2, Ohio State is #29, Oregon is #20 and Auburn is #1 in SoS.


I do not disagree with you. My point, really is far beyond that game. Alabama fans have developed unrealistic expectations which include expecting superhuman efforts from players. For instance, Alabama had the #2 SoS in 2009 as well. GMac played the BCSCG game broken ribs. A: He broke those ribs against Florida is a very tough SECCG, B: Alabama would have almost certainly lost in a playoff. Would that team have been any worse of a team had they lost a playoff? No, they wouldn't have, they simply would have been pushed beyond their limits, and that is exactly my point. Sometimes that happens, it doesn't mean the team did anything wrong really.
It's hard to use the strength of schedule argument in this case when tOSU and bama played mizzou and whisky in the championship game and had the same amount of time to prepare for the game, and tOSU's injuries throughout the year trumps ours. As far as the sec being worn out... I guess ole miss is the only one that can make that claim with their injuries because MSU just played a complicated offense and auburn was playing a hall of fame coach with a heisman finalist running back going against auburn's horrible defense. So I'm not sure if being worn out truly applies to anybody outside of ole miss.
 

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