And Southerners continue to over represent in today's military...hmmm...makes one think.
Alabama Governor Orders Confederate Flag Removed
- Thread starter GrayTide
- Start date
I can understand why blacks have a problem with the confederate flag. What I can't understand why some are talking about tearing down all confederate monuments. This sounds like Isis if you don't agree with history just destroy it.
It's hard for me to consider that many people were duped by the politicians and plantation owners to walk away from there small farms and young families to defend the right to own slaves. What I can believe is that they felt like their homeland was at risk from a Government that didn't listen to their elected officials; something their immediate ancestors had come across an ocean to avoid and had fought a war in the recent past to rectify. I have no doubt that some politicians and large land holders had ulterior motives, the same type that has motivated like minded men in every war ever fought. However, this still doesn't detract from the motivation of the average southerner leaving his farm or small town to rally to their cause. They might have not been very educated but I don't choose to believe that they were mindless dupes incapable of reaching their own decisions for their own reasons. It seems to me that their were a fair amount of lies told by those people dressed in blue and their Government,industrialists etc. also.
Well said. I would recommend Jams McPherson's book, For Cause and Comrades. McPherson is a northerner and a fairly radical leftist (he does interviews on the World Socialist Web Site from time to time). McPherson examined, in a statistically rigorous manner, the letters from Union and Confederate soldiers. What he found surprised him. Both said they were "fighting for the Union of our fathers." Northern soldiers for this great Union of states, united. Confederates for a Union under a Constitution with limited powers for the central government, and a Union based on consent of the people of the states.
35% of Alabama families owned slaves in the 1860 census. What could possess the 65% non-slaveowning majority to support the Confederacy? Of not, some (like Earle's GGGF), opposed secession and then fought for the Union. Many opposed secession when it was up for debate. The vote on immediate unilateral secession was 61-39. Then Unionists said to themselves, "Well, I have had my say. My side lost. I am an Alabamian, so let's busy ourselves defending our state." Most delegates who had opposed secession retroactively signed the ordinance anyway as a show of unity. Only three delegates Henry C. Sanford of Cherokee County, Elliot P. Jones of Fayette County, and Robert Guttery of Walker County never signed the ordinance of secession. That hints at the proportions of unconditional Unionism and "I didn't think the time for secession had yet come" Unionism.
the csa utilized conscription as well as relying on volunteers. iirc, men who owned over a certain number of slaves were exempt (at least for a while).
Yep. That is correct. 20 slave exemption. Either the owner or the overseer was exempt (but not both). The idea (officially) was someone needed to make the plantation run and the unstated rationale was that someone needed to stay on the plantation to protect the women. Rape was not that common, but Blazing Saddles jokes aside, that was a common fear among white women (being raped) and white men (their womenfolk being raped in their absence). After the cry went up about the 20-slave exemption, even that went away and the final conscription law drafted every white man between 17 and 45.
The Union relied on a lottery. Each state had a quota to fill with volunteers (if possible) and if not, with conscripts. If you name came up, you enlisted or you could pay some other schmo $300 to take you place. There was a cottage industry of guys who would take the money, enlist, desert a week later, go to a new community, take another enlistment bounty, enlist, desert, etc. One "bounty jumper" did it 23 times before he was recognized and caught.
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So will Alabama remove "Heart of Dixie" from it's license plates next? I mean, after all, the word "Dixie" infers racism.
Have you not noticed that they've shrunk it to where it takes a magnifying glass to find it now? There has been a lot of sentiment for removing it, but it's a hot potato, politically...
Apologies. My Civil War ancestors (on both sides of the question) were my GG GFs.Hey! Wait a minute. That was only my GGF. Not that long ago...
I'm not only older, my family goes back in long jumps - father born in 1895; mother in 1900; grandfather Self in 1860. My GGFs were born in the 1820s, mostly. Hard to imagine, I know, for most here. However, it greatly affected my upbringing. I grew up hearing family stories that most only read about in history books. (For example, fencing the hogs out, instead of in...)
Growing up and at an early impressionable age, my family was visiting a family in Northern Alabama that raised hogs. They had a wire serving as a boundary keeping those hogs contained. That wire was electrified or whatever you call it. I didn't know that. I grabbed that wire and that shock sent me into the hog pen. A lesson learned.I'm not only older, my family goes back in long jumps - father born in 1895; mother in 1900; grandfather Self in 1860. My GGFs were born in the 1820s, mostly. Hard to imagine, I know, for most here. However, it greatly affected my upbringing. I grew up hearing family stories that most only read about in history books. (For example, fencing the hogs out, instead of in...)
Fencing hogs out! How did they keep up with those hogs? Did they roam and become wild hogs or Razorbacks in Arkansas?
I can understand removing the Confederate flag from state government property (in reality the People's property - ALL the people in the specific state). I have NEVER owned a Confederate flag! Why would I? The Confederacy doesn't exist anymore.
I did have ancestors who fought on both sides of the Civil War.
If you remove ALL historical monuments of the Confederacy, etc., does anyone think that some of us and all of our descendants will forget the transgressions of the PAST that we had nothing to do with? I never owned a slave of any race! If I had been one, I would have fought to the death to gain my freedom. Will people's grave stones that reflect their participation in the Civil War be removed to satisfy people in our country.
My main point is that people who do not know the past will surely repeat its ills! This is like leaders in the New Persian Empire saying that there was no such thing as the Holocaust. In our descendants future with revisionist history, will they repeat these evils because they knew nothing about them. These monuments serve as a part of our country's entire history. Keep the monuments as a reminder of our country's past. If we are going to rid our country of some monuments, we might as well remove all except for monuments to people who lived a PERFECT life. I don't think we have anyone who lived a perfect life in our country, so keep all monuments or NONE.
I did have ancestors who fought on both sides of the Civil War.
If you remove ALL historical monuments of the Confederacy, etc., does anyone think that some of us and all of our descendants will forget the transgressions of the PAST that we had nothing to do with? I never owned a slave of any race! If I had been one, I would have fought to the death to gain my freedom. Will people's grave stones that reflect their participation in the Civil War be removed to satisfy people in our country.
My main point is that people who do not know the past will surely repeat its ills! This is like leaders in the New Persian Empire saying that there was no such thing as the Holocaust. In our descendants future with revisionist history, will they repeat these evils because they knew nothing about them. These monuments serve as a part of our country's entire history. Keep the monuments as a reminder of our country's past. If we are going to rid our country of some monuments, we might as well remove all except for monuments to people who lived a PERFECT life. I don't think we have anyone who lived a perfect life in our country, so keep all monuments or NONE.
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Folks in the South used to fence in their crop fields and let your cows and hogs roam free (especially your hogs). Come November, you'd go hunt down your hogs and butcher what you needed. With a mild climate, no need to fence them in and build a barn to shelter them. They'd be fine on their own until killin' time.
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