Memphis Mayor Wants to Dig Up Dead Confederate War General

Bama Reb

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A white ancestor of President Obama owned slaves.
It shouldn't matter today who did or didn't own slaves centuries ago. It's not OK today of course, but back then it was perfectly normal and customary.
It's just as what we do today may or may not be acceptable to society in the year 2375 or even 2180. What matters today is the only thing that we can change. In that light, let's quit castigating people who lived during the early years of this nation.
 

TIDE-HSV

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It shouldn't matter today who did or didn't own slaves centuries ago. It's not OK today of course, but back then it was perfectly normal and customary.
It's just as what we do today may or may not be acceptable to society in the year 2375 or even 2180. What matters today is the only thing that we can change. In that light, let's quit castigating people who lived during the early years of this nation.
Even my Unionist GGF, member of the Union League, owned eight slaves, who were confiscated by Alabama, along with the rest of his property. I have nothing from him past 1867, which I hate. All the rest of the little diary is taken up with commercial transactions. In a personal/family tragedy, my uncle let himself get swindled out of the family farm in Berlin (near Holly Pond). Many precious family photos and documents were placed in a leaky outbuilding and were destroyed. I know my GGF sued the "new" state of Alabama twice for compensation, but they successfully defended on the grounds that the confiscation was performed by an illegal, rebel regime... ;)

Edit: Ironically, my GGF had promised his slaves manumission, no matter the outcome of the war. By being confiscated in 1862, they remained slaves for several more years. I'd love to know if they returned to him at the end of the war. He was fairly comfortable, financially...
 
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Tidewater

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I know my GGF sued the "new" state of Alabama twice for compensation, but they successfully defended on the grounds that the confiscation was performed by an illegal, rebel regime... ;)
That is chutzpah right there.
Edit: Ironically, my GGF had promised his slaves manumission, no matter the outcome of the war. By being confiscated in 1862, they remained slaves for several more years. I'd love to know if they returned to him at the end of the war. He was fairly comfortable, financially...
Post-emancipation relationships between freedmen and former slaveowners were varied widely. Some thought enough of their former owners to take the family name after emancipation. One Alabama freedman, Simon Phillips, stayed on with his former master as a sharecropper until 1886 and later told the WPA, "Sometime we loaned the massa money when he was hard pushed." That astounded me. First, that a sharecropper had enough extra money to lend to anyone, and second, that he thought enough of his former master to lend him money when he was in need. If the former master had been a jerk, Mr. Phillips could well have said, "Well, sorry to hear you need money. That's tough luck."

Others, whose masters had been cruel, could not leave fast enough when emancipated and these rarely took the family name and found a new family name. I have often wondered about Morgan Freeman's family history. "Freeman" would seem to be a good choice for someone wanting to make a clean break with the past. Or maybe the name "Freeman" was the former family name.
 

tide power fan

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My GGF from Shelby county ala, lost his life during the civil war, he only owned 75 acres so I bet he didn't own any slaves, he served in the home guard.
 

TIDE-HSV

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That is chutzpah right there.

Post-emancipation relationships between freedmen and former slaveowners were varied widely. Some thought enough of their former owners to take the family name after emancipation. One Alabama freedman, Simon Phillips, stayed on with his former master as a sharecropper until 1886 and later told the WPA, "Sometime we loaned the massa money when he was hard pushed." That astounded me. First, that a sharecropper had enough extra money to lend to anyone, and second, that he thought enough of his former master to lend him money when he was in need. If the former master had been a jerk, Mr. Phillips could well have said, "Well, sorry to hear you need money. That's tough luck."

Others, whose masters had been cruel, could not leave fast enough when emancipated and these rarely took the family name and found a new family name. I have often wondered about Morgan Freeman's family history. "Freeman" would seem to be a good choice for someone wanting to make a clean break with the past. Or maybe the name "Freeman" was the former family name.
That is interesting. I think they ran his ancestry on Gates' show. I wonder if he knows. Bet he does...
 

Tidewater

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That is interesting. I think they ran his ancestry on Gates' show. I wonder if he knows. Bet he does...
I watched that episode. What Freeman told Gates was that family tradition was that they had some Native-American ancestors. DNA test showed no Native-American ancestry. Gates hypothesized that freedmen wanted to claim some heritage of a people who had resisted the dominant white culture and Native Americans fit the bill, so some freedmen "adopted" that as part of their heritage. Who would ever know? They never dreamed of anything like DNA testing to confirm or deny the hypothesis.
Actually, Morgan Freeman is on my "beer list." (Folks I would like to sit down and have a beer with). I don't care for too many modern celebrities, but he seems like and interesting guy to have a chat with.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I watched that episode. What Freeman told Gates was that family tradition was that they had some Native-American ancestors. DNA test showed no Native-American ancestry. Gates hypothesized that freedmen wanted to claim some heritage of a people who had resisted the dominant white culture and Native Americans fit the bill, so some freedmen "adopted" that as part of their heritage. Who would ever know? They never dreamed of anything like DNA testing to confirm or deny the hypothesis.
Actually, Morgan Freeman is on my "beer list." (Folks I would like to sit down and have a beer with). I don't care for too many modern celebrities, but he seems like and interesting guy to have a chat with.
*LIKE*
 

seebell

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Knew a black man named Sconiers. He was from around Demopolis. Dummy that I am I asked him if he was French or had French ancestry. He said that Sconiers was probably the name of his family's slave masters from long ago. He said if he had French blood it was because a slave owner had raped one of his ancestors.

I had never thought of things quite that way!:eek2:
 

TIDE-HSV

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Knew a black man named Sconiers. He was from around Demopolis. Dummy that I am I asked him if he was French or had French ancestry. He said that Sconiers was probably the name of his family's slave masters from long ago. He said if he had French blood it was because a slave owner had raped one of his ancestors.

I had never thought of things quite that way!:eek2:
Well, American blacks are about 25% white on the average, so obviously there was a lot of inter-ethnic sex. Funny thing is that it wasn't really thought about as "rape," any more than "droit du seigneur" was in medieval England...

 

Crimson1967

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Even my Unionist GGF, member of the Union League, owned eight slaves, who were confiscated by Alabama, along with the rest of his property. I have nothing from him past 1867, which I hate. All the rest of the little diary is taken up with commercial transactions. In a personal/family tragedy, my uncle let himself get swindled out of the family farm in Berlin (near Holly Pond). Many precious family photos and documents were placed in a leaky outbuilding and were destroyed. I know my GGF sued the "new" state of Alabama twice for compensation, but they successfully defended on the grounds that the confiscation was performed by an illegal, rebel regime... ;)

Edit: Ironically, my GGF had promised his slaves manumission, no matter the outcome of the war. By being confiscated in 1862, they remained slaves for several more years. I'd love to know if they returned to him at the end of the war. He was fairly comfortable, financially...
I am not familiar with the community of Berlin. Was that settled by Germans? (I believe you have said you are of German descent).

Just wondering, I find name origins interesting. I agree Morgan Freeman would be interesting to talk to.


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TIDE-HSV

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I am not familiar with the community of Berlin. Was that settled by Germans? (I believe you have said you are of German descent).

Just wondering, I find name origins interesting. I agree Morgan Freeman would be interesting to talk to.


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Since Cullman County was settled by Germans, it's a good bet that Berlin was settled by them. In fact, it's just a crossroads - blink and you miss it. They pronounced it "Ber'-lin." (Interestingly, the Germans pronounce it "Behr-leen'") Yes we are intermixed with the Cullman Germans and I am partially of German descent, but I've got a lot of southern mongrel in me also. I'm about half British (Irish/English), with the rest of it spread around among Scandinavian, French/German, with a sliver of NA, 3.1% Neanderthal and a mysterious 1.5% Ashkenazim Jewish...
 

TideEngineer08

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And now this:
US House of Representatives votes to ban privately-provided and placed Confederate flags on Confederate soldiers' graves in Federal cemeteries.

The feeding-frenzy lynch mob continues...
These are truly going too far.

In this context such a ban, if enacted, smells unconstitutional.
Indeed.
 

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