Lets assume that the Big 12 dies off soon

Texas will go independent.

BYU and Baylor to the PAC 12

OU/KSU/KS/ and Okie Lite all to themselves wondering why they made the deal with the devil.

81usaf92 said:

Texas will go independent.

BYU and Baylor to the PAC 12

OU/KSU/KS/ and Okie Lite all to themselves wondering why they made the deal with the devil.

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You may be right on 3 of the 4 but OU is much too attractive to say they will be left out looking in. If this scenario goes as the OP suggests the SEC will be all over OU and either OSU or VT join to get us 16.

Loam said:

So lets play a hypothetical game.....

4 Conference, 16 Teams - Big 12 dies. If this is the assumption, the landing doesn't look so bad. Here is the math:

PAC - Needs 4 teams to reach 16
SEC - Needs 2
ACC - Needs 2
B1G - Needs 2

That is 10 teams. The Big 12 has 10 teams. Now, there are also some other possible contenders out there but you have to think that several years down the road, if this happens, the Big 12 teams have stashed some serious cash vs. the non P5 competition and be in a much better position. What is interesting to play with is the mix of teams. I guess the wildcard here could be ND? But anyway.....

PAC - UT/OU/OSU/TTU - kind of like what people thought would happen last time, PAC gets Texas with OU and their tag along state teams

ACC - ISU / WVU - geographically makes sense

B1G - KSU / KU - ? I don't really know here ... maybe SEC for these two to rekindle rivalry with Mizzou

SEC - TCU / BU - ? probably a package deal, puts SEC at 3 teams in Texas thus giving them the largest Texas presence

Who knows what will go on but if you work it from top down some interesting things could happen. You have to think if there are 10 spots out there TCU and Baylor individually and as a package would have to be Top 10.

How do some of you see it going down and who would the SEC get assuming the Big 12 dies?

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ISU = Iowa State, right? How does that make geographical sense for the ACC? maybe the same way WV did for the Big12-2. :smile: Had not thought of TCU or Baylor in the SEC . . . Not a bad idea. Think I might prefer Texas Tech to one of them, though. Larger fan base, more potential TV revenue.

Loam said:

So lets play a hypothetical game.....

4 Conference, 16 Teams - Big 12 dies. If this is the assumption, the landing doesn't look so bad. Here is the math:

PAC - Needs 4 teams to reach 16
SEC - Needs 2
ACC - Needs 2
B1G - Needs 2

That is 10 teams. The Big 12 has 10 teams. Now, there are also some other possible contenders out there but you have to think that several years down the road, if this happens, the Big 12 teams have stashed some serious cash vs. the non P5 competition and be in a much better position. What is interesting to play with is the mix of teams. I guess the wildcard here could be ND? But anyway.....

PAC - UT/OU/OSU/TTU - kind of like what people thought would happen last time, PAC gets Texas with OU and their tag along state teams

ACC - ISU / WVU - geographically makes sense

B1G - KSU / KU - ? I don't really know here ... maybe SEC for these two to rekindle rivalry with Mizzou

SEC - TCU / BU - ? probably a package deal, puts SEC at 3 teams in Texas thus giving them the largest Texas presence

Who knows what will go on but if you work it from top down some interesting things could happen. You have to think if there are 10 spots out there TCU and Baylor individually and as a package would have to be Top 10.

How do some of you see it going down and who would the SEC get assuming the Big 12 dies?

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KSU is not a member of the AAU (Association of American Universities), prerequisite for membership in the B1G. Only Iowa State, Kansas, and Texas of the Big 12 would be considered by the B1G.

TiderJ said:

You may be right on 3 of the 4 but OU is much too attractive to say they will be left out looking in. If this scenario goes as the OP suggests the SEC will be all over OU and either OSU or VT join to get us 16.

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I think OU mightve burnt the bridge with the SEC when they basically said that the academic standards of the SEC arent up to their expectations. Plus OU is a football only school unless you count softball. If the SEC were to expand it would probably be trying to take NC schools and Virginia schools. I could be dead wrong but I dont think OU and the SEC are in the cards if the Big 12 breaks up.

So that basically leaves the Big 10 and Pac 12. I think Baylor is the biggest target, after Texas, that is in the PAC 12's crosshairs for two reasons... 1) it puts the Pac 12 in Texas and 2) academics. Pac 12 is huge on academics. I think if they get in the state of Texas then, unless OU cuts ties with Okie Lite , they will pass on OU and seek either BYU or KSU.

Big 10 is probably going to wait and see if the SEC or ACC try to expand to 16 before they do. I think this might be the most likely destination for OU if the Big 12 breaks. That is unless the Big 10 considers ND or Cincy. If that happens then OU must either drop Okie Lite or beg the ACC to take them.

Its a bunch of hypothethicals, but I just dont see the overwhelming value that OU brings that conferences should be lining up to get them. the OKC market is an Ok market to get into but personally I think Mizzou and aTm have far bigger markets than Oklahoma.

TiderJ said:

You may be right on 3 of the 4 but OU is much too attractive to say they will be left out looking in. If this scenario goes as the OP suggests the SEC will be all over OU and either OSU or VT join to get us 16.

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No way the sec takes okie state. They bring absolutely nothing to the table. A spot in the sec is way too valuable to waste on a school simply as pawn to get a big fish(OU)....too many other options out there that offer a much better ROI for the sec

81usaf92 said:

I think OU mightve burnt the bridge with the SEC when they basically said that the academic standards of the SEC arent up to their expectations. Plus OU is a football only school unless you count softball. If the SEC were to expand it would probably be trying to take NC schools and Virginia schools. I could be dead wrong but I dont think OU and the SEC are in the cards if the Big 12 breaks up.

So that basically leaves the Big 10 and Pac 12. I think Baylor is the biggest target, after Texas, that is in the PAC 12's crosshairs for two reasons... 1) it puts the Pac 12 in Texas and 2) academics. Pac 12 is huge on academics. I think if they get in the state of Texas then, unless OU cuts ties with Okie Lite , they will pass on OU and seek either BYU or KSU.

Big 10 is probably going to wait and see if the SEC or ACC try to expand to 16 before they do. I think this might be the most likely destination for OU if the Big 12 breaks. That is unless the Big 10 considers ND or Cincy. If that happens then OU must either drop Okie Lite or beg the ACC to take them.

Its a bunch of hypothethicals, but I just dont see the overwhelming value that OU brings that conferences should be lining up to get them. the OKC market is an Ok market to get into but personally I think Mizzou and aTm have far bigger markets than Oklahoma.

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This makes the most sense.

The Pac-12 has an interesting geographical limitation. Even Oklahoma is a bit of a stretch, but look at a map. They don't have that many options. They know full well that if they pick up Oklahoma and Texas, they've done all they can. That's why for them, Texas has to be really the only target on their radar. I'm sure they'd take Oklahoma as well to seal the deal. I have to admit I hoped for this all along, because I think it will be very trying for that sort of long distance relationship to exist. But, what Texas and Oklahoma once had is gone, there is no conference centered around them anymore really, there's just the flaming remains. Neither will ever have a conference that's a really good fit, they'll be on the outskirts, or kings of a small kingdom.

Anyway, the thing is the Pac-12 can finish off the Big 12, without actually creating many ripples for other conferences. The Big 12 has already been picked over, there's only two really desirable programs left. Now, if the Big 12 did die, perhaps the ACC would pick over the remains. Kansas has a strong basketball program, there might be interest there. It's not out of the question that the ACC look at a team left behind, perhaps Baylor or Oklahoma State. That's hard to say for sure, but I will say I don't see the Big 10 or the SEC bothering with anything left of the Big 12 if Oklahoma or Texas have joined the Pac-12

Now, there's a slight chance things could go another way, and I'd really prefer they didn't. One is that Texas could join the Big 10, which seems crazy at first but I've heard that at least one party looked into this. It's an odd pairing, but the egos on both sides are pretty big. If that did happen, it might force the Pac-12's hand somewhat. As I said before their options are limited, if they've sat there as two potential additions got snatched up (Texas and Texas A&M), they might just move to grab what ever piece of Texas they can.

The other of course is the SEC and Oklahoma talk. I hope that's done, but if that can be rekindled somehow, it would obviously destabilize the Big 12 to the point that Texas joins another conference and the other programs are left looking for a home. I really don't see a second Big 12 program to add alongside Oklahoma, heck, I don't see the first, so I'd have to assume that if the SEC did decide to do this, they must have gone football rabid and they're going to add Virginia Tech to.

Another interesting and plausible (though perhaps unlikely) scenario would be Kansas and OU to the SEC. I think KU would prefer the Big10. AAU status and b-ball might overcome the fb deficiencies. OU to the west, KU to the east to resume the rivalry with Mizzou.

NationalTitles15 said:

Another interesting and plausible (though perhaps unlikely) scenario would be Kansas and OU to the SEC. I think KU would prefer the Big10. AAU status and b-ball might overcome the fb deficiencies. OU to the west, KU to the east to resume the rivalry with Mizzou.

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While Kansas does have a good basketball program I would be extremely hesitant at taking them. The sec dominates kc with the addition of Missouri.

I know some of you would think it absurd but Oklahoma St. makes better sense for the SEC than Oklahoma. You get the state without further disrupting the balance of competition in the league. When schools leave for another conference their status changes according to where they go. Just look at A&M and how they helped themselves and the SEC. The SEC has enough great football programs. North Carolina is and should be the SEC's top priority if expansion happens again.

CrimsonPassion said:

I have no sources but I, for one, would love to have TCU and Oklahoma in the SEC. Big Mouth Bob has trashed the conference so much, I would love to get him inside Bryant-Denny!

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I see your point and don't disagree. But it's not so much "inside Bryant Denny" by itself as it is the relentless pounding and grinding virtually every SEC team experiences throughout their regular conference season.

ALA2262 said:

KSU is not a member of the AAU (Association of American Universities), prerequisite for membership in the B1G. Only Iowa State, Kansas, and Texas of the Big 12 would be considered by the B1G.

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I don't believe that is true. It's a preference, not a requisite. Nebraska was AAU and then lost it shortly after joining the Big Ten. Notre Dame is not AAU and don't think for a second that the Big Ten wouldn't accept them if they wanted in.

I can't see Texas joining any conference, unless their hand is forced regarding their Olympic sports. If they can't find a suitable home for those, they won't be able to go Independent. So, they'll hang on to the Big 12 as long as they can. It seems the only Big 12 member that is truly upset is Oklahoma. Sure, the rest of the schools probably don't like it, but they're powerless to do anything. Frankly, they got a raise when the Big 12 was saved this last time so I doubt very seriously that schools like Iowa State and Kansas are unsatisfied with the arrangement at all. So Oklahoma is the only one with clout that has misgivings. I agree with the others that their opportunity to get out was lost when they spurned Mike Slive. That was a really stupid thing to have done. The nonsense over academics was laughable as well.

But if we're going to play this exercise, I would say that Oklahoma will only go where they can maintain a presence in Texas for recruiting purposes. That means trying to get into the SEC, or following Texas to the PAC 12 or Big Ten. I think Texas would probably require whatever conference they joined to also accept Oklahoma (Pac 12 already turned down OU as a stand alone entry and the Big Ten would do the same). So, I think Texas and OU go together wherever Texas goes. I believe Kansas will have a home in either the Big Ten or ACC. I'm not sure they can persuade either conference to also accept Kansas State, though the ACC might just to get the Jayhawks. Iowa State is left out in the cold. Some combination of Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State might be able to follow Texas if the Longhorns choose the Pac 12 over the Big Ten, but not all four. West Virginia might be able to find a home in the ACC and if not, the SEC is a long shot. I can't see the SEC taking Oklahoma State or Texas Tech, and I doubt seriously they'd consider Baylor or TCU either.

In the end, Texas is guaranteed a home. Oklahoma most likely gets to follow Texas. Kansas is guaranteed a home, and K-State has a good chance of following them. West Virginia has a decent chance at ACC membership, and a long shot chance at the SEC. The rest will be begging for table scraps.

81usaf92 said:

I think OU mightve burnt the bridge with the SEC when they basically said that the academic standards of the SEC arent up to their expectations. Plus OU is a football only school unless you count softball. If the SEC were to expand it would probably be trying to take NC schools and Virginia schools. I could be dead wrong but I dont think OU and the SEC are in the cards if the Big 12 breaks up.

So that basically leaves the Big 10 and Pac 12. I think Baylor is the biggest target, after Texas, that is in the PAC 12's crosshairs for two reasons... 1) it puts the Pac 12 in Texas and 2) academics. Pac 12 is huge on academics. I think if they get in the state of Texas then, unless OU cuts ties with Okie Lite , they will pass on OU and seek either BYU or KSU.

Big 10 is probably going to wait and see if the SEC or ACC try to expand to 16 before they do. I think this might be the most likely destination for OU if the Big 12 breaks. That is unless the Big 10 considers ND or Cincy. If that happens then OU must either drop Okie Lite or beg the ACC to take them.

Its a bunch of hypothethicals, but I just dont see the overwhelming value that OU brings that conferences should be lining up to get them. the OKC market is an Ok market to get into but personally I think Mizzou and aTm have far bigger markets than Oklahoma.

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Despite OU's uppity comments about academic standards, they are not a member of AAU and wouldn't even get a Christmas card from the B1G much less an invitation to join. The B1G is the one huge on academics. Several Pac-12 schools are not members of AAU. ALL B1G schools are members and would not consider a school that was not a member.

NationalTitles15 said:

Another interesting and plausible (though perhaps unlikely) scenario would be Kansas and OU to the SEC. I think KU would prefer the Big10. AAU status and b-ball might overcome the fb deficiencies. OU to the west, KU to the east to resume the rivalry with Mizzou.

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Kansas is not very desirable as an addition. During the first round of talk, I heard 0 talk of their going to a major conference, they were one of the schools that risked not having a place to go. Less than 3 million population, without a major football program. They're just not worth that much. I mean Oklahoma+Kansas has only a slightly larger population than Missouri. That's not good. They are not worthless, but they're not all that important either.

CajunCrimson said:

Okla City would be one of the bigger markets we have. Plus inroads to recruiting in the area. Big backers. Ugly Orange Unis. What's not to love as a new member

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Let's see, you can make inroads into states twice as big... or that. Remember, with the conference networks, major markets are taking a backseat to total population.

CullmanTide said:

I know some of you would think it absurd but Oklahoma St. makes better sense for the SEC than Oklahoma. You get the state without further disrupting the balance of competition in the league. When schools leave for another conference their status changes according to where they go. Just look at A&M and how they helped themselves and the SEC. The SEC has enough great football programs. North Carolina is and should be the SEC's top priority if expansion happens again.

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I don't like Oklahoma St. as an addition, but your point is valid. I think they could be less disruptive, however unless T. Boone Pickens wants to buy their way into the SEC with a few hundred million, I still think even Virginia Tech is worth more. Agreed on the North Carolina thing, that's the place to go. A population of almost ten million and a program that actually attracts a lot of attention in their own right.

TideEngineer08 said:

But if we're going to play this exercise, I would say that Oklahoma will only go where they can maintain a presence in Texas for recruiting purposes. That means trying to get into the SEC, or following Texas to the PAC 12 or Big Ten. I think Texas would probably require whatever conference they joined to also accept Oklahoma (Pac 12 already turned down OU as a stand alone entry and the Big Ten would do the same). So, I think Texas and OU go together wherever Texas goes.

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I think you're correct. Oklahoma is trying to leverage their way into getting the changes they want in the Big 12, but they're married to Texas now.

ALA2262 said:

ALL B1G schools are members and would not consider a school that was not a member.

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The Big 10 has changed their approach on a few things recently. And, as has been noted they would take Notre Dame (unless they're tired of Notre Dame's shenanigans, from what I understand though they already offered them). I don't think the Big 10 really wants Oklahoma though, but if Texas and Oklahoma showed up at their front door, it might be hard for them to say no.

KrAzY3 said:

Kansas is not very desirable as an addition. During the first round of talk, I heard 0 talk of their going to a major conference, they were one of the schools that risked not having a place to go. Less than 3 million population, without a major football program. They're just not worth that much. I mean Oklahoma+Kansas has only a slightly larger population than Missouri. That's not good. They are not worthless, but they're not all that important either.


Let's see, you can make inroads into states twice as big... or that. Remember, with the conference networks, major markets are taking a backseat to total population.



I don't like Oklahoma St. as an addition, but your point is valid. I think they could be less disruptive, however unless T. Boone Pickens wants to buy their way into the SEC with a few hundred million, I still think even Virginia Tech is worth more. Agreed on the North Carolina thing, that's the place to go. A population of almost ten million and a program that actually attracts a lot of attention in their own right.


I think you're correct. Oklahoma is trying to leverage their way into getting the changes they want in the Big 12, but they're married to Texas now.


The Big 10 has changed their approach on a few things recently. And, as has been noted they would take Notre Dame (unless they're tired of Notre Dame's shenanigans, from what I understand though they already offered them). I don't think the Big 10 really wants Oklahoma though, but if Texas and Oklahoma showed up at their front door, it might be hard for them to say no.

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When has Notre Dame not been the exception to any rule? I do agree about Texas AND Oklahoma together.

KrAzY3, If Texas and Oklahoma showed at the SEC's door they'd be extremely hard to turn down, much like having a couple of beauty queens come to your door, but man how disruptive that'd be to your family.