Lets assume that the Big 12 dies off soon

Since this is a what if thread let's see from a purely logistical stand point:
Iowa St and WVU to the Big 16.
Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas and Okie St to the PAC 16.
KState, Texas Tech, Baylor and TCU to either CUSA or MWC.

If you don't like that then:
Texas and OU to the PAC14.
Kansas and WVU to the Big 16.
OKState, ISU, KState, TCU, Baylor and TTU to CUSA, MWC, or Sunbelt.

Or the current Big 12 adds: Houston, BYU, SMU, Boise State and re-aligns with Texas and Oklahoma in different divisions.

Lots of possibilities, but it apparently all hinges on the arrogance of Texas.

"Lets assume that the Big 12 dies off soon..."

... I'm awake now. Man, now this is how you get someone's attention with a thread title... :biggrin:

Ian Fitzsimmons was on the radio Sunday as I went to work. Said he interviewed Tubby (whom he said always has an agenda when speaking) and Tubs said it could go down in 1-2 years. Not sure what he's basing that on, but he does have contacts. He also wants Cincy in the Big12, so...

NationalTitles15 said:

Ian Fitzsimmons was on the radio Sunday as I went to work. Said he interviewed Tubby (whom he said always has an agenda when speaking) and Tubs said it could go down in 1-2 years. Not sure what he's basing that on, but he does have contacts. He also wants Cincy in the Big12, so...

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I would take anything Tubby says about the Big 12 with a grain of salt since Cincy is lobbying hard for Power Five status. IMO Texas will do nothing but keep the status quo. It depends on what Oklahoma, Baylor and TCU want to do about leaving or staying. Now there is a package deal for the MWC. Add Oklahoma, Okla St, Bayor and TCU and automatic Power Five and Big new TV contract and Network. Throw in Kansas and Kan St and there is your first 16 team Power 5 conference.

Now were do Texas Tech, Iowa St and W Virginia wind up?

After Cowherd tweeted Finebaum last week about the Big XII dissolving and OU going to the SEC, Texas to PAC, we knew that If legit it would grow legs and the media would scramble to find out more. Now almost a week later and nothing substantive has been found, I think we can all agree there was nothing to it. Until I see something out of David Boren that tells me he has changed his mind about wanting in the SEC, then I will assume that it is a dead issue.
Absent BMD's getting in his ear about wanting to join the SEC, which is being speculated around here as OU is in the middle of a stadium renovation fund drive, then I have to feel that he has not changed his mind. I think Boren does not want to spend the monies on facilities for all sports that is required if in the SEC. In his mind it detracts from the University's mission, and that mission is academics first.

Lastly when OU announced a 371 Million dollar stadium renovation last year, within 60 days Boren announced a 500 Million academic fundraiser. So now they compete against each other for dollars that are not there like they were when 100 a barrel oil prices were in play a year or so ago. Why those campaigns were not staggered more is really bewildering. So sleep well my Bama brethren, OU is not coming to the SEC IMO.

I suspect Tubby saying Cincy is headed for the Big XII is a recruiting ploy.


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champions77 said:

After Cowherd tweeted Finebaum last week about the Big XII dissolving and OU going to the SEC, Texas to PAC, we knew that If legit it would grow legs and the media would scramble to find out more. Now almost a week later and nothing substantive has been found, I think we can all agree there was nothing to it. Until I see something out of David Boren that tells me he has changed his mind about wanting in the SEC, then I will assume that it is a dead issue.

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Well, for the record I never really thought this was some sort of imminent occurrence, Finebaum likes to get people talking. It has been mentioned here a few times, but there are contracts that would complicate moves, and furthermore there are package deals that would complicate things further. I just enjoy the discussion, heh.

Anyway, by far the most likely thing would be the Big 12 moving to 12 teams. That would be the easiest thing, and that would create some lasting consequences. Would it be a good move or further destabilize things? Time will tell. Of course though, not moving to 12 teams would create lasting consequences as well.

These last two rounds, we've seen things happen pretty fast. However, before that things moved slowly. VT begging/litigating their way into the ACC expansion was several years ago. The formation of the Big 12 and expansion of the SEC was quite a while ago to. So, eventually something will happen, but it could be years...

KrAzY3 said:

Well, for the record I never really thought this was some sort of imminent occurrence, Finebaum likes to get people talking. It has been mentioned here a few times, but there are contracts that would complicate moves, and furthermore there are package deals that would complicate things further. I just enjoy the discussion, heh.

Anyway, by far the most likely thing would be the Big 12 moving to 12 teams. That would be the easiest thing, and that would create some lasting consequences. Would it be a good move or further destabilize things? Time will tell. Of course though, not moving to 12 teams would create lasting consequences as well.

These last two rounds, we've seen things happen pretty fast. However, before that things moved slowly. VT begging/litigating their way into the ACC expansion was several years ago. The formation of the Big 12 and expansion of the SEC was quite a while ago to. So, eventually something will happen, but it could be years...

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It certainly will be years unless someone contests the GOR the BIG XII has in place. I don't know how bullet proof the Agreement is, but if some school(s) feel desperate to leave, then you can bet they will have their best Attorney's looking into ways to defeat it. Absent that, I have a hard time believing that any changes are going to be made until that Agreement expires in ten years. Maybe in 7-8 years when it is getting closer to expiring some schools will push for an extension. I guess at that time any schools planning on exiting will have to show their hand.

champions77 said:

It certainly will be years unless someone contests the GOR the BIG XII has in place. I don't know how bullet proof the Agreement is, but if some school(s) feel desperate to leave, then you can bet they will have their best Attorney's looking into ways to defeat it. Absent that, I have a hard time believing that any changes are going to be made until that Agreement expires in ten years. Maybe in 7-8 years when it is getting closer to expiring some schools will push for an extension. I guess at that time any schools planning on exiting will have to show their hand.

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What happens if Oklahoma does bolt? Does the Agreement still stand or is it contingent on having 10 members? A Big 9 sans Oklahoma would not be worth nearly as much $$$ in the marketplace.

Redwood Forrest said:

What happens if Oklahoma does bolt? Does the Agreement still stand or is it contingent on having 10 members? A Big 9 sans Oklahoma would not be worth nearly as much $$$ in the marketplace.

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I assume it still stands so as to keep anyone other team from bolting too. I think the fine is stiff enough to keep any school from leaving. What's ironic is that I believe the GOR was David Boren's brainchild to keep the conference together. And now his own creation is keeping OU from doing what is in their best interest?

champions77 said:

I assume it still stands so as to keep anyone other team from bolting too. I think the fine is stiff enough to keep any school from leaving. What's ironic is that I believe the GOR was David Boren's brainchild to keep the conference together. And now his own creation is keeping OU from doing what is in their best interest?

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They all did sign off on the contract so now I guess they are stuck for awhile.

I wish they would get two or four more and have a championship game. I don't think it is right to let them play one less tough game and the let them play some games on the championship weekend. Conference championship weekend should be just that. I can't figure out why the other conferences agreed to them have a championship game without the 12 teams.

We have ACC, B1G, Pac12, SEC, MWC, AAC, CUSA and MAC championship games that weekend. Then we have three Big12 games and a couple of SunBelt games thrown in the mix. I know they play these games that last weekend because they are afraid they will take a hit in the polls if they are idle. Too bad. Get a conference game.

Redwood Forrest said:

They all did sign off on the contract so now I guess they are stuck for awhile.

I wish they would get two or four more and have a championship game. I don't think it is right to let them play one less tough game and the let them play some games on the championship weekend. Conference championship weekend should be just that. I can't figure out why the other conferences agreed to them have a championship game without the 12 teams.

We have ACC, B1G, Pac12, SEC, MWC, AAC, CUSA and MAC championship games that weekend. Then we have three Big12 games and a couple of SunBelt games thrown in the mix. I know they play these games that last weekend because they are afraid they will take a hit in the polls if they are idle. Too bad. Get a conference game.

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Is a complete round robin NINE game conference schedule really "one less tough game"? The last weekend of the season was just that, the last weekend of the season, long long before it became championship weekend. They have more right to play that weekend than do Army-Navy two weeks after the season is over.

ALA2262 said:

Is a complete round robin NINE game conference schedule really "one less tough game"?

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Yes

By the way, you do know Baylor and TCU's SoS right? Let's put it this way, if you took Alabama's SoS, and you multiplied it by 25, it would still have been lower (and lower=stronger) than TCU or Baylor's SoS. Just think about that...

ALA2262 said:

Is a complete round robin NINE game conference schedule really "one less tough game"? The last weekend of the season was just that, the last weekend of the season, long long before it became championship weekend. They have more right to play that weekend than do Army-Navy two weeks after the season is over.

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After Four of the Power 5 season ends, guess what? There is a another TOUGH (if you consider division champs tough) game to play BEFORE final ranking and seeding released. On that day TCU played a 2-9 team, Iowa State.

Just my thoughts on the eventual collapse of the Big 12.

Italics - New Member to the conference
Underlined - Changed divisions same conference

No More independents!!!!!!! You want to be respected then you need to join a conference like everybody else.
64-Power 4 Schools
30-Mid-Majors
38-Lower Level FBS
132 - Total FBS Schools


ACC

Atlantic
Boston College
Clemson
Florida State
Louisville
Cincinnati
Syracuse
Wake Forest


Coastal
Duke
Georgia Tech
Miami
North Carolina
Pitt
Virginia
West Virginia
The ACC loses its pipe dream of Notre Dame joining as a full member. Never was a chance of that happening. Then the blue collar not blue blood duo of NC State and Va Tech leave for greener pastures south…specifically THE SEC. Reluctantly the blue-bloods of tobacco road allow the heathens of WVU to join….it bolsters football and basketball. Cincinnati helps the basketball brand and gets the ACC into Big 16 territory and adds TVs. ACC Remains the king of College Basketball.



SEC

WEST
Alabama
Auburn
Arkansas
LSU
Missouri
Mississippi State
Ole Miss
Texas A&M

EAST
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
North Carolina State
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Virginia Tech

The SEC strengthens its footprint in the south with the addition of Va Tech & NC State. Adds millions of TV in the Carolina, Virginia, DC area. NCState helps basketball and baseball. Va Tech just happy to be here. Missouri moves to the more appropriate western division and their dreams of returning to Atlanta for the SEC championship game is just that a Dream.



BIG 16

EAST
Indiana
Maryland
Michigan
Michigan State
Rutgers
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue

WEST
Kansas
Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Wisconsin

The Big 16 or Big 10 or whatever finally get the elitists from South Bend to join the Big Ten. However the Big 16 must make concessions to the Golden Domers and place them in the much much weaker Western Division. The biggest winner of realignment is Kansas. The football team is awful but with basketball it brings the Big 16 much closer to the ACC.



PAC 16

WEST
California
Oregon
Oregon State
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Washington
Washington State

EAST
Arizona
Arizona State
Colorado
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas Tech
Utah

Well it finally happens. ESPN pulls the plug on the longhorn network and Texas looks to repair its image and wallet. By entering into the Pac 16 Texas gains exposer on the West Coast. Tech, OU and Okie State are part of the deal. It allows the Pac 16 to put the original Pac 8 teams in the same division. An added bonus Colorado is placed with Texas in the East which will lead to some bad blood, especially after the comments the Buffs made about the Longhorns after they exited the Big 12. Pac 16 is now stronger in all three major men sports. The gap is shrinking between 1-2-3 in regards to which conference is the best football conference.


The next two conferences will have some type of clause that will allow them into the final four if something devastating happens in one of the POWER 4 conferences. They have good football but not great.

MOUNTAIN WEST

WEST
Boise State
Fresno State
Hawaii
Nevada
San Diego State
San Jose State
UNLV
Utah State

EAST
Air Force
Baylor
BYU
Colorado State
Kansas State
New Mexico
TCU
Wyoming

Boise and Utah St move divisions. Three former Big 12 teams join in the East as well as the Mormons from BYU. Concessions will have to be made in scheduling to accommodate BYU but they are in the division with two other religion affiliated universities. Media days should be fun. The football brand immediately gets an upgrade. Basketball is better with Baylor, KSU, and BYU. Kansas State is the loser here when the Big 16 says hell no when the Jayhawks ask if they can be a package deal.



AMERICAN

WEST
Houston
Iowa State
Marshall
Memphis
SMU
Tulane
Tulsa

EAST
Army
Central Florida
Connecticut
East Carolina
Navy
South Florida
Temple

There is some good football but there is some bad football too. Army joins the conference and is placed in the same division with Navy. The biggest loser in the realignment is Iowa State, but it’s Iowa State. Ever been to Ames? It’s awful. Marshall upgrades its conference affiliation leaving CUSA. Not a bad conference but not great either. Iowa State vs Memphis in basketball should be good.



The next three conferences are not very appealing. Some will debate about moving back down to FCS status but at the end of the day they will remain FBS schools and survive.

CUSA

WEST
Louisiana Tech
North Texas
Rice
Southern Miss
Texas –San Antonio
UTEP
(Texas State – 2016/2017)

EAST
Charlotte
FAU
FIU
Middle Tennessee State
Old Dominion
Western Kentucky
(UAB -2016/2017)

Texas State comes over from the Sun Belt Conference and UAB rejoins after…well whatever happened in Birmingham. There will be a lot of Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday games. These teams will travel to the Power 4 schools for a huge payday to keep their programs afloat. Nothing to see here.



MID-AMERICAN

WEST
Ball State
Central Michigan
Eastern Michigan
Northern Illinois
Toledo
Western Michigan
(Future FCS member that moves up....Southern Illinois or Youngstown State???)

East
Akron
Bowling Green
Buffalo
Kent State
Miami (OH)
Ohio
UMass

Well Coach Saban did spend some time in this conference. I’m sure that Buster Brown (Terry Bowden) is taking in somebody’s rejects for a chance to win. Is there a Northern Michigan or a Southern Michigan? There will be a lot of Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday games. These teams will travel to the Power 4 schools for a huge payday to keep their programs afloat. Nothing to see here.



SUN BELT
Appalachian State
Arkansas State
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Idaho
Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Monroe
New Mexico State
South Alabama
Troy

This conference has more FCS championships than any other conference. How in the world the powers that be allow Idaho and NMSU into this mainly southern conference?

The ACC has only 14 teams, while the SEC, Big 16 and PAC 16 have uh, 16 teams.

colbysullivan said:

The Mountain West East? Is this another Key and Peele episode?

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Can we put North Texas in the Mountain West East? And where do we put UAB and their three fans?

Am I the only one that doesn't like conference expansion? I think we're already too big. It would prevent us from playing teams like Tennessee, UGA, and UF unless we meet in a conference playoff.

The SEC would still be the most brutal conference. The playoff would need to change to allow a 2 loss LSU or Alabama with a top 10 SOS to get into the playoffs even if a BYU or you name the team with a 96-SOS that wins more games than any SEC team while playing North TX and UAB.

It may go back toward the old days when Notre Dame was always top 3 until a Big Ten school beat them and immediately jumped over every SEC school into the top 3.

I guess nothing stays the same. Once they put a cap on the number of players a team can have it was inevitable. Especially with population growth and TV money.

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. Teams like Arkansas that Field top 10 or better teams each year(usually) but just cant run thru the SEC West like a TCU can run thru their schedule, will be getting the shaft big time. That may go double for Missouri which has shown it can play ball with the best on most Saturdays, if it gets placed into the SEC West.

I may be off base as I do not study other conferences and their SOS.

AlabasterBama, I think the ACC would attempt to get Kansas, and would accept Kansas State as well (KSU is a good basketball program) in the event that the Big 12 implodes. I agree the Big Ten would want the Jayhawks as well, they are an AAU member after all. But as you correctly point out, the Big Ten would never take on Kansas State as well and that is why I think the ACC might get them in the end.