More FBS irresponsibility (South Alabama wants a new stadium)

Big Kenny

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I think programs that lose millions of dollars every year are a drain on the college system and taxpayers if they are a school that receives state funding. I understand that having a football team is a source of school and community pride, but it is irresponsible when classrooms, facilities, and faculty suffer to pay for the team. I won't have that problem as a grad student at Alabama, but the UAB's of the world have to cut costs somewhere.

Alabama does not have a big enough city to support a pro team. We have 2 pro teams in Nashville, but almost lost the Predators a few years ago from lack of support. I don't think that Alabama needs a pro team. Atlanta, New Orleans, Nashville, and Memphis are all close enough to go watch a game.

Besides, Alabama & Auburn have better football teams than the Titans, Falcons, or Saints.
 

Mystical

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The problem with South football is Lad stadium. I have attended a few of their games but that stadium is a dump. If they keep the tickets cheap it will be something to do on a Saturday as long as it does not interfere with watching Alabama play. There was a time when South Basketball sold out every game. I don't think UAB and South are even in the same sentence. From Birmingham to BDS is less than an hour drive. From Birmingham to Jordan Hare is less than 2 hours. From Mobile to BDS is 3:30 minutes. From Mobile to Jordan Hare is 3:30 minutes. I stopped going to the Senior Bowl because I hate the neighborhood around Lad so much. Compared to many items Tax payer money pays for this one would not make my top 10 of wasteful spending.
 

81usaf92

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Alabama does not have a big enough city to support a pro team. We have 2 pro teams in Nashville, but almost lost the Predators a few years ago from lack of support. I don't think that Alabama needs a pro team. Atlanta, New Orleans, Nashville, and Memphis are all close enough to go watch a game.

.
Green bay is a city of 104k and Huntsville is a city of 186k so Alabama has a big enough city in terms of population, but sponsorship and the fact college football is so huge make it an extreme long shot that Alabama would ever get a NFL team.
 

CraigMack

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Green bay is a city of 104k and Huntsville is a city of 186k so Alabama has a big enough city in terms of population, but sponsorship and the fact college football is so huge make it an extreme long shot that Alabama would ever get a NFL team.
The Packers are also Milwaukee's team. Milwaukee has a metro population of 2,000,000+
 

81usaf92

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The Packers are also Milwaukee's team. Milwaukee has a metro population of 2,000,000+
Tell that to Green Bay residents and see their response. Milwaukee people aren't as pro packers as you would think. There are a quiet a bit bears fans and Chicago is actually closer to Milwaukee than Green Bay as well
 

BamaInBham

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IMO, UAB's political success in football is primarily driven by Bama hatred, since UAB has set itself against Alabama, with a tremendous boost from the Bham media. AU always, and the regional and national media occasionally, go along if there's some momentum for the oppressed little guy. Bama is an easy and popular target for anyone who wants to have a little fun or in AU's case land any kind of blow against their mortal enemy.

The only reason UAB and So Ala can get away with their economic irresponsibility is that the taxpayers are footing the bill. This state is in dire economic straits, which makes it difficult to swallow the cavalier attitude of some towards the $50 m annual loss posted by Troy, UAB and So Al athletic dept's.

I hate to say it, but Bham is dying with little hope for revival, since along with its unique problems it is part of a national pattern. UAB is in a bad spot.

I am a long time resident of Bham and a UAB graduate.
 
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GrayTide

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I suspect the Titans are on somewhat shaky ground. Their attendance has sagged and that is why they drafted Mariota, to try and generate some excitement for a team that is pitiful. If and when the Vols get their program back to respectability it will hurt the Titans in competing for the entertainment dollars. An NFL franchise in Alabama could never compete with Alabama and Auburn. The other in state FBS programs will do nothing but continue to drain state coffers.
 

Roll Tide 57

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Oct 20, 2014
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Except that we don't..

I don't know the numbers on Troy's attendance, but I do know that UAB and South Alabama do not (or did not in the case of UAB) bring in the required attendance to maintain FBS status. There is no way those programs do anything other than run a net loss. In other words, they are a drain on the economy. If they were supported, you would see 30,000 to 40,000 in attendance regularly. That has never happened.

I just looked it up and Troy averaged less than 17,000 per game last season which is 55% capacity for their 30,000 seat stadium. That's enough to be over the limit for the FBS requirements, but not by much.

I know every program cannot have a 100,000 seat stadium that is filled on a regular basis. But these programs cannot even bring in 20,000 on average. There may be a possibility that this state can ​support 4 or 5 FBS programs, but to this point it has not.
The first thing I thought of was the Troy attendance, 2good teams from the same state not all that far away for travel, & about 1/2 full is accurate, it's was on TV & I think it was "keep it down home cuz's" last game in the state before retiring.

It looked like more fans at a Hoover game on ESPN than that one.

If the Alumi want to pay for it Great, but if I paid taxes in Alabama, then no!
 

KrAzY3

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seriously just posted the chicken little reference because it is a common stance by Krazy against the lesser alabama football teams. While he has some points I think there are far bigger economical problems in Alabama than football teams that cant fill 15k stadiums.
Well, this issue is two-fold to me. The first is based on my economic principles. I was a high school drop out, estranged from my father, living in Knoxville of all places, where I found myself budgeting $20 a month for food while I tried to get a job. The circumstances around that time, and leading up to that lead me to appreciate how little I really needed and how to avoid wasting money. Now? I might not meet some people's idea of successful, but I have no debt, my house is paid for (which sadly is an oddity for someone in their 30s), my car is paid for, and I'm financially secure. Contrast this with my brother, who spends $20 a day at gas stations and is always in debt. Heck, out of six siblings I'm the only one who didn't actually graduate high school (GED), but four of them have declared bankruptcy. I feel that attention to seemingly small wastes of money actually hold the key to overall economic responsibility.

Beyond that though, this also merges with my feelings about Boise State and what they were able to do with their schedule. That really came to a head after the 2009 season, in which Alabama had the best BCS era season ever, came off an astoundingly difficult season, took out one of the better teams of the era, and yet... Stuart Scott had the audacity to ask about Boise State. Boise State didn't play anyone, because there's so many football welfare programs they could build a schedule around them. There's this whole slew of teams that joined after the 85 scholarship reductions (at the time they were around 100 FBS programs), and almost all of them simply have no business being there. They waste money, and I feel they have a negative impact on the FBS. So, I do hold a bit of a grudge. They're wasting my money to mess up a sport I care about. We're talking about programs that started in the 90s or later, that only were able to exist after they lowered the bar as low as possible. They simply don't belong if they can't pull their own weight, and most can't.

The post makes a lot of sense. A state with a tax base like Alabama's should not be "supporting" programs that lose, collectively, $50MM a year. All for these schools having football teams that are even almost self-supporting, at whatever level that is true.
Right, there's no excuse for this level of waste. Mind you, when I list those numbers it's not counting private donations! Private donations go under revenue, so when I say how much they're losing, they are losing that much after private donations. It's basically the government in one form or another that bridges the gap. I bear them no ill will in creating something that is self-sustaining though.

You did not mention UNA trying to go D1A. They win in Div 2 but would lose in D1A and not draw enough to pay their bills.
Good point, I didn't get into Title IX, stipends, the EA ruling, etc... I was trying to focus on South Alabama and the specifics since before I'd mainly focused on UAB and perhaps less on the numbers. There's a lot of reasons that programs should be staying away from D1, and there's a lot of programs that shouldn't be there in the first place. In either case, I believe Alabama has shown willingness to only support two FBS programs, which for their size is still not bad at all. There's no reason to force more on people who do not even want them.

it is irresponsible when classrooms, facilities, and faculty suffer to pay for the team.
Exactly

The problem with South football is Lad stadium.
I cannot agree with you. First, I've been at Ladd when it was sold out (Senior Bowl). It can and will sell out when there is actual demand. Secondly, I won't defend the stadium itself, but to tell you the truth going to the Senior Bowl and going to the Alabama game isn't really much different in terms of getting in and out and the area. The chances are you might end up walking a fair bit, or parking in someone's yard and feeling nervous about it.

But, I took care to illustrate how in Mobile, even areas that do not have those issues is not drawing crowds. It's not the stadium, that's the mantra of people who want to blow 50 million+ so a few thousand of them can have more comfortable surroundings. That's extremely irresponsible.

The only reason UAB and So Ala can get away with their economic irresponsibility is that the taxpayers are footing the bill. This state is in dire economic straits, which makes it difficult to swallow the cavalier attitude of some towards the $50 m annual loss posted by Troy, UAB and So Al athletic dept's. .
Of course, they are able to operate on a budget that is entirely unwarranted. But, people complain about soaring student debt and tuition. This is just part of it, but the behavior, the mentality, that's the problem. They ultimately see nothing wrong with these kind of wastes of money if that's what they want.
 
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Crimson1967

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I suspect the fact all of the Big Two's games being on TV hurts attendance at the second tier programs. Back when we were only on once or twice a year, you could take your radio and follow both games. Yes, you can still take the radio, but getting to actually see it is a big lure to stay home. Also, we used to play at 1:30 every week. So Jax State, Troy, UNA, etc. could schedule for late afternoon or night and be assured of a decent crowd as fans could listen to our game and then head to the other game. Now we don't know when we will play until a couple weeks in advance, so the other schools are over a barrel in scheduling.

Of course, now that I see we will lose five games, I suspect we will be on the early JP games a lot.
 

81usaf92

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incorrect
There is a significant bears following in Milwaukee. There are several Bears bars there. Heck Chicago is actually closer to Milwaukee than Green Bay. The biggest reason is that Green Bay predates any Milwaukee team, and the oldest current team was established in 68 when the Packers and bears were established in 1919. Green Bay isnt Milwaukee's team nor are they directly funded by them. They played games in Milwaukee but they discontinued that due to better attendence and size at Lambeau and the fact that Milwaukee did not want to build a football stadium. Their orgin is the Indian Packing company and Curly Lambeau and had little to nothing to do with the city of Milwaukee. They are funded and supported by the City of Green Bay, and they are the only community owned professional team in the NFL.
 

CraigMack

1st Team
Jul 13, 2000
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There is a significant bears following in Milwaukee. There are several Bears bars there. Heck Chicago is actually closer to Milwaukee than Green Bay. The biggest reason is that Green Bay predates any Milwaukee team, and the oldest current team was established in 68 when the Packers and bears were established in 1919. Green Bay isnt Milwaukee's team nor are they directly funded by them. They played games in Milwaukee but they discontinued that due to better attendence and size at Lambeau and the fact that Milwaukee did not want to build a football stadium. Their orgin is the Indian Packing company and Curly Lambeau and had little to nothing to do with the city of Milwaukee. They are funded and supported by the City of Green Bay, and they are the only community owned professional team in the NFL.

I am aware of that but point being is that there are more Packers fans in the Milwaukee area than there are people in the Huntsville area.

As for the Packers in Milwaukee convo, the Packers organization hosts draft parties in Milwaukee to this very day. NFL rules provide an exception to the 75-mile blackout rule for the Green Bay Packers' market area, which stretches out to both the Green Bay and Milwaukee television markets (the team's radio flagship station WTMJ is in Milwaukee, and select Packer home games were played in that city until 1994). I could go on but, long story short, if the NFL considers Milwaukee a Packers town then that settles it as far as I'm concerned.

Alabama quit playing games in Birmingham years ago but it's still a Crimson Tide town much like Milwaukee is still a Packers town. It didn't become a UAB town because the stadium is closer by.
 
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Crimson1967

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Green Bay would not get a team if one did not already exist. They are a special case due in part to their unique ownership and the NFL's revenue sharing.


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