More FBS irresponsibility (South Alabama wants a new stadium)

KrAzY3

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I received an email from South Alabama, and they're talking about building an on campus football stadium. I think for a university, an on campus FBS football stadium must be a key status symbol. Of course it's more convenient not to have one, as you can blame lackluster attendance on the lack thereof.

I am hardly unaffected by South Alabama and their delusions of grandeur. I live in Mobile, so when Ladd Stadium is provided for South Alabama, rent free, then I am made to bear a financial responsibility. I am enrolled at South Alabama, so when funds are diverted to the football team, I am made to pay for that as well. If they build a stadium that costs tens of millions of dollars, despite the fact I've never watched a single South Alabama football game, I will be made to pay, somehow.

The idea of giving Alabama their fifth FBS program was ridiculous from the start. It was fueled by the popularity of SEC football, coming at a time in which Alabama under Nick Saban was garnering national attention. Whether it was merely jealousy, or simply a foolhardy attempt to emulate this I am not sure, but it was irresponsible to say the least. Most athletic departments already lose money, and South Alabama wastes a lot every year. Most FBS programs lose money as well. Believe you me, no one that doesn't participate in the football program in some capacity is going to South Alabama because they have a football team.

I was merciless in my disparaging remarks about UAB football. The truth is, I think even three FBS programs in the state is pushing it, but allow me to be clear. South Alabama football is a huge waste of money, and that's even if they don't build a stadium to cater to special interests. One of my wife's teachers at South Alabama, recently pointed out that the South Alabama football was a "sacred cow", that regardless of how stupid and irresponsible it is, it simply can't be looked at for what it actually is. Even posters on this forum, while piling on UAB football would carve out some excuses for South Alabama, that frankly are not warranted.

I was born and raised in Mobile, Al. I'm a huge sports fan, I cheered for the Jags, I longed for even semi-pro sports, and at one time I even wished for a South Alabama football team. I am not ignorant of the demographics of the area, but I've also seen firsthand why Mobile went so long without a minor league baseball team for example. I worked for the BayBears their first year, I saw capacity crowds at virtually every game, I saw the enthusiasm. But, like the Mobile Mystics, I also saw it wane. When I returned after being gone several years, and attended a game, I was startled to see just how empty the stadium is. Mind you, it's a stadium just off the interstate with their own parking, the reason people are not going is because they simply don't want to. The Mobile BayBears rank dead last in the Southern League with an average attendance of 1,715.

Perhaps that's just baseball right? Well, South Alabama does have an on-campus arena, the Mitchell Center. The capacity is 10,000, it was opened in 1998, and it serves a variety of functions, the chief one being hosting South Alabama basketball games. It's even hosted an NBA game once. Surely, a 30 million dollar facility on the campus of South Alabama, for one of the two "revenue" sports is a main attraction, right? Well, in 2014 South Alabama basketball had an average attendance of 2,188. I'm not even sure where that ranks, but the 100th ranked team has an average attendance of over 5,000. Alabama has an average attendance of over 10,000.

Well, ok so Mobile might not do a great job of supporting baseball and basketball programs. But, surely Football is different right? Well... if it's the SEC, sure. The South Alabama game against Miss. State attracted 38,129 fans. The problem though, is that most of those people came to see Miss. State play. For the season, South Alabama had an average attendance of 17,445 over 6 games. This means that for games not involving an SEC team, South Alabama had an average attendance of 13,308 last year. The mandated minimum for an FBS program is 15,000. For those of you that think it will just take time for South Alabama to gain interest, in 2013 their average attendance was 15,926. If anything, interest might already be weakening.

The truth is Mobile just doesn't support those types of teams well. I suppose a big part of that is the fact that Mobile is in the heart of SEC territory, and people already have strong allegiances. However, one thing is clear. Barring some extraordinary change, a new football stadium will soon become like the Mitchell Center (but less useful). A nice showcase for something not very many people want to see. Unfortunately, with the way universities are wasting money, I suppose that won't be cause for concern, but I sure won't be happy to have paid for it.

UAB athletics lost 19 million last year. South Alabama athletics lost 16 million last year. Yet, both those programs have people close to them that feel entitled to massively expensive football stadiums? Contrast this with Alabama A&M, who ran their entire athletic department on less than ten million, total last year. That includes an FCS program, which by the way has been to as many bowl games as South Alabama and UAB combined. There's just no reason for UAB and South Alabama to be wasting this much on their athletic departments, and furthermore to have the nerve to demand to be able to waste millions more.
 
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TideEngineer08

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It really is an entitlement issue.

Reality is lost on these people; its as if they believe the money really does grow on trees and doesn't affect anyone in any meaningful way. The UAB fiasco amazes me. I guarantee you that by the 3rd home game, whenever they do play again, there will be less than 10,000 people in the stadium. The overwhelming demand to bring back the football team was nothing more than a social media driven mirage.
 

Redwood Forrest

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The NCAA bears some blame for this mess. They came up with high school attendance rules and then refused to enforce them. PC at its finest. They take Jr. college and wave a magic wand and now they are Major players. I have nothing against UAB or S Alabama, or Troy ..... as long as they play in FCS where they belong.
 
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CajunCrimson

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I ain't gonna lie -- at some point I quit reading your Tolstoyesque posts....with that said.....

Louisiana has 5 FBS teams (LSU, UL Lafayette, UL Monroe, Tulane and La Tech).....and has a smaller population than Alabama.

I checked on a website that has all of them listed:

Alabama has 4 FBS Teams (Bama, Auburn, South AL and Troy) UAB is gone....for now
Arkansas has 2
Florida has 7
Georgia has 4
Kentucky has 3
Mississippi has 4
Missouri has 1
South Carolina has 2
Tennessee has 4

Alabama has no pro teams -- and thus can support 4 (or 5) Major College football programs.....
 

TideEngineer08

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Alabama has no pro teams -- and thus can support 4 (or 5) Major College football programs.....
Except that we don't..

I don't know the numbers on Troy's attendance, but I do know that UAB and South Alabama do not (or did not in the case of UAB) bring in the required attendance to maintain FBS status. There is no way those programs do anything other than run a net loss. In other words, they are a drain on the economy. If they were supported, you would see 30,000 to 40,000 in attendance regularly. That has never happened.

I just looked it up and Troy averaged less than 17,000 per game last season which is 55% capacity for their 30,000 seat stadium. That's enough to be over the limit for the FBS requirements, but not by much.

I know every program cannot have a 100,000 seat stadium that is filled on a regular basis. But these programs cannot even bring in 20,000 on average. There may be a possibility that this state can ​support 4 or 5 FBS programs, but to this point it has not.
 

KrAzY3

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It really is an entitlement issue
That sums it up really. They see Alabama and Auburn with a football team, and overlook the long history, the generations of fans, the decades of support that lead to that. I'd have no real issue if they had a FCS program supported at a reasonable level, but that's not what they feel entitled to unfortunately.

The NCAA bears some blame for this mess. They came up with high school attendance rules and then refused to enforce them.
Well, in the NCAA's defense it doesn't involve napkins or textbooks so I guess they don't care. But, I did go back and read about the rule, it went from NCAA officials saying if you don't meet the requirements you'd be relegated to a lower level, to commentators simply stating the NCAA won't do anything about it. One college had an attendance of 4,000! and nothing was done, not any repercussions of any sort.

Waaah. LOL
Well, I know you're a supporter of the UAB program, but really it was only fair that I level the same criticism to my hometown program. The issue though, is that people see something they like, some special interest and they become up in arms about having that. Government, by default only listens to the squeaky wheels so to speak, so that special interest gets what they want. Someone wants a bridge, expensive and useful to only a few, but they get that to. Then another project, another special interest, they pile up on top of each other, one after they other. Millions turn into billions. The problem is sure, we all have something we'd like to have. But, how many of us, if given an actual list, of every one of these special interest wastes of money would actually sign off on the whole list just to keep that one thing they want? Not many I'd bet.

Alabama has no pro teams -- and thus can support 4 (or 5) Major College football programs.....
Well, you can say people in Alabama can, but the truth is they don't. They support 2 major college football programs.
Let's look at a non-skewed year, 2013:
Alabama 101,505
Auburn 85,657
Troy 18,906
South Alabama 15,926
UAB 10,548

If you think any of those latter three is "support" when in fact all three of those athletic departments lose large sums of money each year (South lost 16 million last year, Troy lost 17 million, UAB was the worst) , then well... you and I have a different idea of what the word support means. Alabama State had an average attendance of 14,387. Is that a major college football program?
 
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81usaf92

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seriously just posted the chicken little reference because it is a common stance by Krazy against the lesser alabama football teams. While he has some points I think there are far bigger economical problems in Alabama than football teams that cant fill 15k stadiums.
 
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TideEngineer08

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seriously just posted the chicken little reference because it is a common stance by Krazy against the lesser alabama football teams. While he has some points I think there are far bigger economical problems in Alabama than football teams that cant fill 15k stadiums.
I saw an opportunity to work in an Arrested Development reference, and couldn't pass it up. I don't know if you've watched the show, but if not, you should. It's hilarious.

Which, oddly enough, is a response. :tongue:
Have you ever watched Arrested Development?
 

uaintn

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The post makes a lot of sense. A state with a tax base like Alabama's should not be "supporting" programs that lose, collectively, $50MM a year. All for these schools having football teams that are even almost self-supporting, at whatever level that is true. South can build a new stadium, it will be really full for the inaugural game and maybe a few more, then it will be so empty it will echo.

I agree that after a (relatively) great start, Blazer attendance will be embarrassingly low by November. If the photos of the stands prove me wrong, I'll come back and eat crow. I felt sorry for the players and coaches but even with all the social and mass media hoo ha, it's not like 50,000 rabid Blazer fans turned out to protest....
 

CullmanTide

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I ain't gonna lie -- at some point I quit reading your Tolstoyesque posts....with that said.....

Louisiana has 5 FBS teams (LSU, UL Lafayette, UL Monroe, Tulane and La Tech).....and has a smaller population than Alabama.

I checked on a website that has all of them listed:

Alabama has 4 FBS Teams (Bama, Auburn, South AL and Troy) UAB is gone....for now
Arkansas has 2
Florida has 7
Georgia has 4
Kentucky has 3
Mississippi has 4
Missouri has 1
South Carolina has 2
Tennessee has 4

Alabama has no pro teams -- and thus can support 4 (or 5) Major College football programs.....
Alabama has no pro teams because they can't support them. On that level, it's all about money. On the collegiate level, it is all about money. Someone has to pay the bills. I have enough of my own.
 

81usaf92

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Alabama has no pro teams because they can't support them. On that level, it's all about money. On the collegiate level, it is all about money. Someone has to pay the bills. I have enough of my own.
Alabama doesnt have a pro team because the demand isnt there to have one .Plus everytime the question is popped it involves Birmingham. Bham is dead and their politics are some of the most corrupt in the USA. If Alabama was to ever get a pro team it would be in Hunstville or Mobile because both generate tons of money and are far enough away from Tuscaloosa and Auburn to possibly gain intrest. But I would bank on it not happening anytime soon seeing that cities like San Antonio and Oklahoma City still dont have NFL teams and they are better suited for it.
 

CrimsonSEC

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Alabama doesnt have a pro team because the demand isnt there to have one .Plus everytime the question is popped it involves Birmingham. Bham is dead and their politics are some of the most corrupt in the USA. If Alabama was to ever get a pro team it would be in Hunstville or Mobile because both generate tons of money and are far enough away from Tuscaloosa and Auburn to possibly gain intrest. But I would bank on it not happening anytime soon seeing that cities like San Antonio and Oklahoma City still dont have NFL teams and they are better suited for it.
You can add Los Angeles to that list as well.
 

CraigMack

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\[/QUOTE]

I just looked it up and Troy averaged less than 17,000 per game last season which is 55% capacity for their 30,000 seat stadium. That's enough to be over the limit for the FBS requirements, but not by much.

\[/QUOTE]


Troy didn't average that many. I know that may be the numbers reported but there are some games where I doubt that they have much over half of that number. They have a new coach and will have a new AD this year so maybe that will renew some interest.
 

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