Florida Gun Shop Owner won't sell guns to Muslims

willie52 · Jul 21, 2015

Well considering he made the statement “I’m not going to be asking every person who walks in what their religious background is. That’s not my business,” not sure what all the hoopla is about. So he hangs a sign on his door. Unless you walk in with a "I'm a Muslim" sign hung around your neck I guess he'll still sell to you. There a way too many ways to get a gun without going to his store. You might try the local paper, gun shows, friends, etc.

If you wear a sign you're dumber than I thought, you just made yourself a moving target. :biggrin2:

TheAccountant · Jul 21, 2015

Jon said:
considering I am now selling to 75% of the planet and own the patents I will posses an army of lawyers that will tie up competition for some time. Also the fact that my tech is so inexpensive will effectively negate R&D efforts of non-bigoted capitalists that may want to try and compete.

I'm talking about YOU changing your stance because of greed... the massive amount of money you are missing. I'm not talking about competitors.

Let's play along... I assume your prime markets will be 3rd world and 2nd world countries. Whose likely to be buying your "tech" for these people/villages? Not the the people themselves (too poor) so we're looking at aid organizations and governments. Will you scrutizine where the charity donations money are coming from? Christian dollars?

I think your 75% just shrank even more.

BamaFlum · Jul 21, 2015

Jon said:
considering I am now selling to 75% of the planet and own the patents I will posses an army of lawyers that will tie up competition for some time. Also the fact that my tech is so inexpensive will effectively negate R&D efforts of non-bigoted capitalists that may want to try and compete.

I think you're analogy is flawed. There are other gun shops, bakeries, photographers, etc. That one gun shop doing this doesn't violate a persons rights who can go to another business. If I'm a rival gun shop owner, I just market a discount to Muslims and take that market share.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GreatDanish · Jul 21, 2015

Jon said:
so lets take this farther

suppose I invent a new technology or improve and existing one. I get a patent on it and only I have it. I also posses the ability to remotely turn it off at my whim, effectively ending resale of my product of it is sold to someone I find undesirable

lets say its a new solar panel, costs $100, sits on your roof and fully powers your entire home. No more power bills for you ever, combine it with an electric car and no more fuel bills either

now I say, I hate christians and I refuse to let them own my tech. Are y'all still cool with me doing this? remember it is unavailable on resale, if I learn someone buys it for you I can "brick" it and there are no competitors. Your atheist. muslim, hindu neighbors are getting free power and you simply cannot

I could list many problems with this example. I'll stick with two.

#1: You're providing an extremely unlikely scenario - I mean, go in the other direction. Let's say that there is a known murderer in your hometown. You're the only gun shop. The murderer just got all his weapons stolen by some good guys. The cops are friends with the guy and don't care to arrest him. He comes and wants to buy a gun from you. Would you have to sell it to him? "If you want to sell to the public, you must sell to the public." Mine is about as likely as your scenario.

#2: My desire to have something (in this case, this very valuable resource) should have absolutely no bearing on my right to have it. Your example above should have been as effective if the item you invented were a donkey mind-reading machine. Who cares if I want that awesome solar panel? That doesn't mean you have to sell it to me.

As a Christian and that happened, yeah, I'd be frustrated but I would still think it is within your rights. As long as it doesn't actively hurt the other people, I am on board with freedom for sellers of stuff.

crimsonaudio · Jul 21, 2015

The DOJ is going be all over this - they likely are already.

His FFL is likely already suspended.

The reality is a business owner with half a brain can pick and choose his / her clients. When you scream it from the roof tops, you attract attention...

RedStar · Jul 21, 2015

crimsonaudio said:
The DOJ is going be all over this - they likely are already.

His FFL is likely already suspended.

The reality is a business owner with half a brain can pick and choose his / her clients. When you scream it from the roof tops, you attract attention...

It's honestly a pretty easy scam to run. After he gets shut down, all he's got to do is have a friend set up a gofundme page and he'll rake in a quarter million in less than a week.

Jon · Jul 21, 2015

GreatDanish said:
I could list many problems with this example. I'll stick with two.

#1: You're providing an extremely unlikely scenario - I mean, go in the other direction. Let's say that there is a known murderer in your hometown. You're the only gun shop. The murderer just got all his weapons stolen by some good guys. The cops are friends with the guy and don't care to arrest him. He comes and wants to buy a gun from you. Would you have to sell it to him? "If you want to sell to the public, you must sell to the public." Mine is about as likely as your scenario.

#2: My desire to have something (in this case, this very valuable resource) should have absolutely no bearing on my right to have it. Your example above should have been as effective if the item you invented were a donkey mind-reading machine. Who cares if I want that awesome solar panel? That doesn't mean you have to sell it to me.

As a Christian and that happened, yeah, I'd be frustrated but I would still think it is within your rights. As long as it doesn't actively hurt the other people, I am on board with freedom for sellers of stuff.

#1 it is illegal to sell someone a weapon if you know that person intends to use it to break a law. Guy is a known murderer you are well within your rights to refuse to sell to him. You can also refuse because you think he might be up to something or for any other reason, outside of their race, religion and several other protected classes.

#2 I just disagree

What if a muslim billionaire bought ESPN and refused to let Christians watch? (forget the technical possibilities here and go with me) You going to be "frustrated" but understand that you can't watch Bama play on Saturday? You going to say, "oh well he is within his rights" You still on board with that particular freedom? Is the slippery slope you guys are on starting to become clearer?

TideEngineer08 · Jul 21, 2015

Jon said:
What if a muslim billionaire bought ESPN and refused to let Christians watch? (forget the technical possibilities here and go with me) You going to be "frustrated" but understand that you can't watch Bama play on Saturday? You going to say, "oh well he is within his rights" You still on board with that particular freedom? Is the slippery slope you guys are on starting to become clearer?

A competitor would reap all the benefits of his refusal to sell to Christians. FoxSports1 would rise in prominence and likely dominate the market within 5 years. Again, I'm not the suing type when it comes to issues like this.

I don't have a "right" to ESPN. It's a privilege and believe me when I say, I can live without it.

TheAccountant · Jul 21, 2015

Jon said:
#
What if a muslim billionaire bought ESPN and refused to let Christians watch? (forget the technical possibilities here and go with me) You going to be "frustrated" but understand that you can't watch Bama play on Saturday? You going to say, "oh well he is within his rights" You still on board with that particular freedom? Is the slippery slope you guys are on starting to become clearer?

Why should we "go with you" when the technical and market aspects are a huge factor in your ridiculous scenario if it ever came to fruition?

Jon · Jul 21, 2015

I know you are an accountant (or claim to be) but that doesn't make it illegal for you to think outside of the box it just makes it hard. You should try

Jon · Jul 21, 2015

TideEngineer08 said:
A competitor would reap all the benefits of his refusal to sell to Christians. FoxSports1 would rise in prominence and likely dominate the market within 5 years. Again, I'm not the suing type when it comes to issues like this.

I don't have a "right" to ESPN. It's a privilege and believe me when I say, I can live without it.

so you'd be ok waiting out the ESPN contract with the SEC until Fox could bid for it? No worries though you'd only have to wait until 2034 but you'd still get to see a game or two on CBS every year, so not all is lost (until some atheist buys CBS just to rub it in)

The SEC, which will receive profits from the channel, will be tied to ESPN through 2034, the latest example of ESPN’s desire to lock up rights for as long as possible to provide continuity for its businesses and to keep the programming from rivals.

“There’s a lot of discussion about new competitors for ESPN, and I’m going to invite all my competitors to take out the actuarial tables and look at the year 2034,” John Skipper, ESPN’s president, said at the news conference, which was attended by 32 SEC coaches. “I believe it’s the longest agreement in all of sports.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/s...ill-have-own-tv-network-starting-in-2014.html

TheAccountant · Jul 21, 2015

Jon said:
I know you are an accountant (or claim to be) but that doesn't make it illegal for you to think outside of the box it just makes it hard. You should try

Don't claim to be one. The Accountant is an Oscar winning short film that makes you think outside the box if you watch it. It's my favorite film so I'd say I've tried it.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/accountant/

Try creating somewhat plausible scenarios next time.

TideEngineer08 · Jul 21, 2015

Jon said:
so you'd be ok waiting out the ESPN contract with the SEC until Fox could bid for it? No worries though you'd only have to wait until 2034 but you'd still get to see a game or two on CBS every year, so not all is lost (until some atheist buys CBS just to rub it in)

Contracts are made to be broken. Do you actually think this bigoted Muslim would forgo all of that money? I just don't see it happening. He wouldn't be a billionaire much longer.

Again I say, I can live without ESPN, the SEC, and Alabama football. Hell, I might actually get more work done around the house.

TheAccountant · Jul 21, 2015

Jon said:
so you'd be ok waiting out the ESPN contract with the SEC until Fox could bid for it? No worries though you'd only have to wait until 2034 but you'd still get to see a game or two on CBS every year, so not all is lost (until some atheist buys CBS just to rub it in)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/s...ill-have-own-tv-network-starting-in-2014.html

So how will ESPN stay in business for 20 years when they literally have no viewership to sell advertising to? How will they demand such high subscriber fees from the service providers when they won't offer the channel to the vast majority of the subscriber base?

TheAccountant · Jul 21, 2015

TideEngineer08 said:
Again I say, I can live without ESPN, the SEC, and Alabama football. Hell, I might actually get more work done around the house.

I think a lot of us would get use to the way our fathers and grandfathers enjoyed the game... radio. Since ESPN won't have anyone to sell advertising to the commercial breaks will be much shorter

GreatDanish · Jul 21, 2015

Jon said:
#1 it is illegal to sell someone a weapon if you know that person intends to use it to break a law. Guy is a known murderer you are well within your rights to refuse to sell to him. You can also refuse because you think he might be up to something or for any other reason, outside of their race, religion and several other protected classes.

#2 I just disagree

What if a muslim billionaire bought ESPN and refused to let Christians watch? (forget the technical possibilities here and go with me) You going to be "frustrated" but understand that you can't watch Bama play on Saturday? You going to say, "oh well he is within his rights" You still on board with that particular freedom? Is the slippery slope you guys are on starting to become clearer?

#1 - When you said, "if you want to sell it to the public, you have to sell it to the public," I thought you meant everyone. Then there is a blurry line when there is a Muslim (or black person, or woman, or whatever) that gives you reason to be concerned but you do not have it documented. It's just a strong hunch.

#2 - Yes. I would still say, "oh well he is within his rights." I guess we just won't agree on that. You can give me the slipperiest slope. I will still be on board with that freedom.

RedStar · Jul 21, 2015

TideEngineer08 said:
A competitor would reap all the benefits of his refusal to sell to Christians. FoxSports1 would rise in prominence and likely dominate the market within 5 years. Again, I'm not the suing type when it comes to issues like this.

I don't have a "right" to ESPN. It's a privilege and believe me when I say, I can live without it.

It all boils down to this. No one has the right to a privilege. The discussion begins and ends there.

Displaced Bama Fan · Jul 21, 2015

RedStar said:
It all boils down to this. No one has the right to a privilege. The discussion begins and ends there.

Well said. I'll share a little story from one of my Dutch colleagues. He and some buddies had traveled to France, near the German border and swung by a restaurant. The owner said, "sorry, we're closed" despite all the customers sitting there. They shrugged it off and said something to point of heading back to the Netherlands which the owner replied "Ah, you're Dutch, I thought you were German, come on in, we're open."

Tide1986 · Jul 21, 2015

Jon said:
Would you be ok with me opening a business and having a no christians sign?

Have at it. I don't care one iota.

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