Question: for the plumbers and lawyers (having major issues)

DzynKingRTR

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Dec 17, 2003
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I have been having some major issues with my plumbing this week. I live in an apartment so I rent. Apparently while no one was home my toilet overflowed. The management said that it was overflowing and leaking into the apartment below me. They said it had “excessive tissue” and this was my fault so they will go thru my renters insurance. Now currently they have removed my vanity and sink but not the toilet (you know the thing they claim is clogged and causing all the problems.) I now have two industrial dehumidifiers in my bathroom running all day and night. I can still use my toilet and tub but I have no sink because they removed it. My questions are: 1. Are they feeding me a line of crap that this is just a toilet clog that is my fault or is something else going on? Is this truly “my fault”? What is “excessive”? Why did they remove my sink if this is my toilet? Do I need a lawyer?
 

NationalTitles18

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May 25, 2003
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I have been having some major issues with my plumbing this week. I live in an apartment so I rent. Apparently while no one was home my toilet overflowed. The management said that it was overflowing and leaking into the apartment below me. They said it had “excessive tissue” and this was my fault so they will go thru my renters insurance. Now currently they have removed my vanity and sink but not the toilet (you know the thing they claim is clogged and causing all the problems.) I now have two industrial dehumidifiers in my bathroom running all day and night. I can still use my toilet and tub but I have no sink because they removed it. My questions are: 1. Are they feeding me a line of crap that this is just a toilet clog that is my fault or is something else going on? Is this truly “my fault”? What is “excessive”? Why did they remove my sink if this is my toilet? Do I need a lawyer?
Seems they are trying to cover their own butt. I would fight it tooth and nail.
 

Bamaro

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Oct 19, 2001
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Toilets dont overflow unless something is blocking the water path. Unless you have a "flush-up", its controlled by gravity. I cant imagine however why they would remove your sink, that seems weird. Doubt whether it would be worth paying for a lawyer however.
 

bamachile

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The whole "plumber or lawyer" thing reminded me of this one:

A lawyer had a broken line in his house and called a plumber. The plumber arrived and repaired the line in fifteen minutes. He then gave the lawyer a bill for $150. Furious, the lawyer yelled, "That's six hundred dollars per hour! I'm a lawyer and I don't make that kind of money!"

Unfazed, the plumber replied, "Yeah, I didn't make that kind of money when I was a lawyer, either."
 

NationalTitles18

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Flappers can easily get stuck in the open position causing the toilet to continually run while trying to refill the upper tank.
I wondered that one myself. Plus it was fine when I left at 7:20 but overflowing by 10:40.
That was my thinking - unless you were in a big hurry after dropping the kids off at the pool you would have known the toilet was still running when you left. If it wasn't running when you left then how was it running hours later? Sounds like they are giving you a load and asking you to eat it.
 

TIDE-HSV

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As someone mentioned way above, commodes are gravity operated. They will not overflow, even with the flapper stuck up. The water would just run through it continuously. There has to be an obstruction, even with water running through it. Are you the sole occupant? I ask that because guys almost never cause a commode to get stopped up. Usually, it's female tampons and other insoluble materials. Several years ago, Alabama adopted a "tenant's rights" act, which requires that rented premises be maintained in minimally habitable conditions. I'm almost certain that plumbing is covered. If you went to an attorney and just had him write a letter to the landlord, I'd bet you will get action. My wife and I know one infamous slumlord. When the act passed, I remarked to her "Well, that puts Charlie out of business." Let us know how it turns out...
 

RTR91

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Nov 23, 2007
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As someone mentioned way above, commodes are gravity operated. They will not overflow, even with the flapper stuck up. The water would just run through it continuously. There has to be an obstruction, even with water running through it. Are you the sole occupant? I ask that because guys almost never cause a commode to get stopped up. Usually, it's female tampons and other insoluble materials. Several years ago, Alabama adopted a "tenant's rights" act, which requires that rented premises be maintained in minimally habitable conditions. I'm almost certain that plumbing is covered. If you went to an attorney and just had him write a letter to the landlord, I'd bet you will get action. My wife and I know one infamous slumlord. When the act passed, I remarked to her "Well, that puts Charlie out of business." Let us know how it turns out...
From what I can tell, Georgia has a similar Landlord-Tenant Law, so Dzy should be good.
 

TIDE-HSV

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From what I can tell, Georgia has a similar Landlord-Tenant Law, so Dzy should be good.
Thanks. Didn't realize he was in GA. Most states have a similar law now. In AL, at least, the law only applies to residential property, not commercial. Several years back, when my daughter was still living in Germany, they rented a magnificent old home with many problems, including the boiler which heated the water, and which finally just quit. The landlords were going through a divorce, which apparently drags on for years over there, and, to put it mildly, the husband, in charge of the house, dragged his feet over any repair. I suggested to my daughter, who is an attorney, that she threaten the owner with going to a lawyer, betting that Germany probably had even more strict laws than here. Result was like magic - boiler repaired later that day...
 

uafan4life

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I'm neither a lawyer nor a plumber but here is what I would do...


I would call a few locally licensed and bonded plumbers in the area, explaining the situation, and finding out what they would charge you to come out and inspect the problem - giving you a written assessment of what they believe the problem to be and an estimate (or, preferably, a bid) for what they would charge you to fix it (or finish fixing it). Based on the results of these calls (prices, general feeling about their responses, etc.), I would pay two or three of them to come out and give me the aforementioned assessments/estimates/bids - probably two at first and then, optionally, a third if the first two were significantly different. I would tell the property manager to hold up on the repairs until after you have the plumbers look at it. If they try to give you any grief over it, just tell them your insurance policy requires multiple, third-party estimates for a claim. Renter's insurance is generally very inexpensive until you have to make a claim, at which point your rates and/or your deductible typically rise very sharply.

If the plumbers' assessments differ from what the property manager stated then it will likely be well worth the cost of those visits. Assuming that is the case...

1) You will have two written statements from locally licensed and bonded plumbers (bonded meaning their insurance, not yours or the property manager's insurance, covers any future damages and required repairs due to poor workmanship during the original repair) stating exactly what they believe the problem was and what it would cost to fix it.
2) If the problem wasn't your fault, this gives you leverage against the property manager to place the responsibility for the damage and repairs onto them. This will potentially save you a lot of money, both upfront and in the long run, as the cost of those visits will likely be less than your deductible and your rates won't rise due to a claim on your renter's insurance.
3) If the problem was your fault, you'll at least know that you aren't getting taken advantage of by the property manager and you may still save money overall. You can also take one of those estimates to your insurance company to find out what affect that claim would likely have on your rates/policy, adding that to your deductible to find out your true total cost. At that point, there are a few ways in which you may be able to save yourself some money:
A) If this estimate is significantly less than the property manager's estimate then you may be able to get the property manager to reduce his estimate to match. At this point, if the cost is less than your total cost for making a claim, you're better off just paying for the repairs out of pocket. If not, then you've at least lowered the dollar amount of the claim which may reduce the amount your rates would rise.
B) If this estimate is significantly less than the property manager's estimate and he is unwilling to reduce his estimate, then inform him that you'll be using one of the third-party plumbers for the repairs and, if he tries to give you any grief over not using "their guy", remind him that because the plumber is bonded his insurance company can't complain about them doing the work - which is probably the number one bull-crap excuse for people trying to take advantage of you. And, as above, you'll know whether or not you'd be better off just paying for the repairs out of pocket.
C) If this estimate is the same as or higher than the property manager's estimate then you'll at least know that the property manager isn't taking advantage of you, whether or not the repair cost is less than your total cost for making a claim, and if you'd be better off just paying for the repairs out of pocket.


As I stated earlier, I am neither a plumber nor a lawyer and this is simply my opinion - and there may very well be some flaws in my logic. However, this is the approach I would take since - even if I end up costing myself a little more money overall due to the third-party plumber visits while still ending up making a claim - I'll at least know that I protected myself from being taken advantage of by the property manager.

Hope that helps! :)
 

TIDE-HSV

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uafan, I wouldn't follow that procedure because of the way the tenant's act is drawn. A tenant cannot deduct the cost of repairs from the rent, only sue, and if he loses, pay the landlord's attorney's fees. I feel the best route would be to consult an attorney, have a 14 day letter written, and then see how the landlord responds. If he/she still maintains that the tenant caused it, then I'd have a licensed plumber look at the problem and give an estimate (including the cause - almost certainly not a clog caused by Dyz), and have the attorney send that to the landlord. Somewhere along the way, the landlord, IMO, will cave...
 

seebell

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Super Handy Man and Ace landlord here. :) Two ways a toilet can overflow.

From the tank. The toilet is flushed, the flapper closes as it should. The ballcock stays down or the flush valve sticks open. The water pressure is good enough that the amount of water coming into the tank is more than the overflow tube can handle. The tank overflows and keeps overflowing until some one turns the water off.

From the toilet bowl. The toilet is flushed. The toilet drain is stopped up. The bowl overflows. If the flapper closes as it should the bowl will only overflow for a short time. If the flapper sticks open the bowl will constantly overflow.

For these things to happen the problem must be multi faceted. A rare happening IMO. Has happened to me once in 35 years of landlording. In both cases the toilet will have just been flushed.

Don't know why your sink was removed unless it was a vanity and they wanted to dry that out. You should have had wet carpet in the hallway and in areas adjacent to the bath room.

Excessive paper would have to be a huge amount of paper.

Your state tenant landlord law should be available online. Here in Alabama you write a letter to the landlord details your problems i.e missing sink, wet floors,concerns about mold and mildew(that's always a biggie). The land lord has 14 days to respond or your lease is nullified. You must keep paying your rent!

One thing you might consider. Some insurance companies are trying to get rid of multi-family policies. Others, including mine, are raising the deductible to high levels.

Charlie, the landlord Boss Man Earle mentioned, had so many claims that I heard his deductible was $25,000. So of course he would want your renters insurance to pay.

Mold and mildew is almost always excluded from multi-family insurance. If your floors start bucking up and the ceilings down below have to be removed the cost will be very high.
 
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DzynKingRTR

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Dec 17, 2003
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thanks for everyone's input.

currently I have a deadline for work so I have been super busy. I am on vacation next week, I am not leaving until it is resolved.
 

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