Samuel DuBose shooting in Cincinnati

Bazza · Jul 31, 2015

Most of us have seen this incident in the news the past few days.....I won't post the full body cam video because it's been shown so much already on the news but I did find this one that slows things down at the moment of the weapon discharge and find it enlightening as to the way it went down at that crucial moment.

It looks to me that the cop just shoots the victim in the head before the car even moves forward. Just because the victim was resisting the cop.

81usaf92 · Jul 31, 2015

Bazza said:
Most of us have seen this incident in the news the past few days.....I won't post the full body cam video because it's been shown so much already on the news but I did find this one that slows things down at the moment of the weapon discharge and find it enlightening as to the way it went down at that crucial moment.

It looks to me that the cop just shoots the victim in the head before the car even moves forward. Just because the victim was resisting the cop.

I think it was murder, but the only real question I do have is when did the car go in gear? Thats probably going to be the biggest question in court. The cop was in the wrong either way, but it could mean the difference in murder and excessive force because either way all cops have atleast one form, mostly two, of less than lethal weapons.

Bamaro · Jul 31, 2015

Cops have to stop shooting motorists, usually black, for minor traffic offenses.

RedStar · Jul 31, 2015

This seems a lot more cut and dry than any of the other recent events. There's not a lot of room, if any, for reasonable doubt.

TIDE-HSV · Jul 31, 2015

I'm still not following how the car could take off on its own...

Tidewater · Jul 31, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
I'm still not following how the car could take off on its own...

As I watched the video, I was wondering the same thing, but it appears the driver had put it into gear before the cop killed him.
Dead weight on the gas pedal caused it to take off.

This one is bad. I heard the prosecutor say that the way this cop handled that stop was "one of the dumbest things I've witnessed in thirty years of law enforcement."
It just could have been handled so much better (by both men).

TideEngineer08 · Jul 31, 2015

Without seeing what led up to the beginning of the video, it's difficult to make judgment, but just judging by the video that looked like murder to me.

I also do not understand why the cop is chasing the car as if the guy was alive... did he not realize he had just blown his head off or was he just acting?

Perhaps in the shock of the moment he didn't realize what he had done.

NationalTitles18 · Jul 31, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
I'm still not following how the car could take off on its own...

If it was still in gear anything could happen.

Looks like a bad situation. First time I've seen any video on it.

81usaf92 · Jul 31, 2015

Tidewater said:
As I watched the video, I was wondering the same thing, but it appears the driver had put it into gear before the cop killed him.
Dead weight on the gas pedal caused it to take off.

This one is bad. I heard the prosecutor say that the way this cop handled that stop was "one of the dumbest things I've witnessed in thirty years of law enforcement."
It just could have been handled so much better (by both men).

The cop shouldve never pulled the weapon in the first place because nothing warranted it, but if the vehicle was dragging him then deadly force is permitted. But again it shouldve never reached that level since the individual was cooperative/complaint at the start and possibly passive/resistant at the end. A less than lethal is required for every officer to carry on duty so if any physical force was waranted it should be that.
The cop also was being aragoant in his questioning of the suspect and came across as arrogant. He is the typical department "super" cop that looks for situations like this. Most cops arent like this even though the media and some special purpose groups try to sway that perception on the public. I still think the point of time at where the vehicle went in gear will determine what crime he will be convicted of.

TheAccountant · Jul 31, 2015

Voluntary Manslaughter.

TIDE-HSV · Jul 31, 2015

TideEngineer08 said:
Without seeing what led up to the beginning of the video, it's difficult to make judgment, but just judging by the video that looked like murder to me.

I also do not understand why the cop is chasing the car as if the guy was alive... did he not realize he had just blown his head off or was he just acting?

Perhaps in the shock of the moment he didn't realize what he had done.

Probably this. Also, since the car took off, they probably assumed the driver was still alive. They certainly approached the crashed vehicle that way...

92tide · Jul 31, 2015

good read from leonard pitts link

[note: i think this was written before the cincinnati folks released the info on that shooting]

So yes, Chuck has a point, the argument over police brutality sometimes misses the proverbial forest for the proverbial trees. Not that it is invalid to frame the problem in its racial dimensions; as Chuck himself says, when it comes to police violence, people of color seem to get it first and worst, and that deserves discussion. Still, it is too often the case that we — and I include myself — forget that the racial dimension is not the only dimension.

In the process, we exclude from the conversation those who ought to be part of it and forfeit the strength that comes with their numbers. So perhaps one answer to “What can I do?” is this: Broaden the discussion, recognize that this “black” problem is in fact a human rights problem, help those who may feel removed — or safe — from police violence to understand that they are neither.

Bazza · Jul 31, 2015

Here is the full length video for those who haven't seen it.....

Bazza · Jul 31, 2015

Off subject but I have to wonder.....

Mr DeBose was 43 and had 10 kids.

Wonder if he had a job.......and where he was going when he was pulled over.

Bottle of gin in his car....no driver's license.

Is it in poor taste to wonder about all this?

Disclaimer: my comments above do not in any way convey a less than 100% concern for any misbehavior and/or incompetence by law enforcement resulting in Mr. DeBuse's death.

Bamaro · Jul 31, 2015

Bazza said:
Off subject but I have to wonder.....

Mr DeBose was 43 and had 10 kids.

Wonder if he had a job.......and where he was going when he was pulled over.

Bottle of gin in his car....no driver's license.

Is it in poor taste to wonder about all this?

Disclaimer: my comments above do not in any way convey a less than 100% concern for any misbehavior and/or incompetence by law enforcement resulting in Mr. DeBuse's death.

FWIW, it was mouthwash in a gin bottle

Catfish · Jul 31, 2015

Bazza said:
Off subject but I have to wonder.....

Mr DeBose was 43 and had 10 kids.

Wonder if he had a job.......and where he was going when he was pulled over.

Bottle of gin in his car....no driver's license.

Is it in poor taste to wonder about all this?

Disclaimer: my comments above do not in any way convey a less than 100% concern for any misbehavior and/or incompetence by law enforcement resulting in Mr. DeBuse's death.

I don't think it's in poor taste to wonder about those things. Unless, as I know you're not doing, someone is wondering those things as a way of excusing or minimizing the officer's actions.

Catfish · Jul 31, 2015

Bamaro said:
FWIW, it was mouthwash in a gin bottle

Seriously??? I hadn't heard that. Why would you keep mouthwash in a gin bottle?

Tidewater · Jul 31, 2015

Catfish said:
Seriously??? I hadn't heard that. Why would you keep mouthwash in a gin bottle?

I have heard of the other way around.
One guy I served with in the Middle East (alcohol was banned) deployed with 36 bottles of "Listerine." He said he was really into oral hygiene. (In reality, he was a functional alcoholic).

Bamaro · Jul 31, 2015

Catfish said:
Seriously??? I hadn't heard that. Why would you keep mouthwash in a gin bottle?

Thats what he told the cop and you can see that its not clear like gin would be.

TIDE-HSV · Jul 31, 2015

This has ignited a broader debate which we haven't touched on in this thread and that is whether schools should be in the business of running PDs at all. It was a long time ago, but, when I was at UA, the campus cops were literally the Keystone Kops. They were a bunch of buffoons. Oh, you'd call them if the Phi Delts were out drunk on the front lawn in their underwear again, but for anything serious, you called TPD. A lot of schools, I understand, don't have overlapping jurisdictions, as at UA, where the school lies within the city limits. For example, when my wife was at OM, they had to have a separate PD, because the school lay outside the Oxford city limits, by more than a mile. Nationwide, it appears that campus cops are underpaid, undertrained, and ill-equipped. The counterargument I've heard is that campus cops are accustomed to dealing with a youthful populace; have to show more patience, etc. I can see both sides. I do believe that most campus PDs need better personnel...

Samuel DuBose shooting in Cincinnati

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