Antioch TN theater shooting...

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,610
39,826
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Southern suburb now of Nashville. Apparently only the shooter is dead. One other person may have hatchet wounds. He tried to get in the back door of a Sprint store and was refused entry and then went to the theater. The first officer to engage him apparently killed him. Obviously still a lot of details still to come...
 

Al A Bama

Hall of Fame
Jun 24, 2011
6,658
934
132
We've got crazy people coming out of the woodwork in this country...
As I posted in another thread recently, WHY aren't these people incarcerated and getting help in facilities like Bryce Hospital. Was it lack of funding that closed them and now we are living with them in our homes or they are living in/near the streets of America? Was it the electric shock treatments (or other ridiculous treatments) that caused the facilities to close? If not, what's the reason?
 

Jon

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2002
15,644
12,568
282
Atlanta 'Burbs
As I posted in another thread recently, WHY aren't these people incarcerated and getting help in facilities like Bryce Hospital. Was it lack of funding that closed them and now we are living with them in our homes or they are living in/near the streets of America? Was it the electric shock treatments (or other ridiculous treatments) that caused the facilities to close? If not, what's the reason?
no one wants to pay for it and saying "I'm going to raise taxes to increase mental health care" does not get you elected
 

Jon

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2002
15,644
12,568
282
Atlanta 'Burbs
Not gonna argue that point...BUT, we have NO information about this most recent nutjob. Could have been a case where it snapped today? Who knows, but lets not jump to too many conclusions. My $.02
fair for this case as we know nothing at the moment, but we have failed the mentally ill in this country I don't think that is even debatable at this point
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,466
13,303
287
Hooterville, Vir.
I used to live in downtown DC. There used be folks (mostly men) walking around downtown talking to Elvis or whatever. In the wake of the film "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest," there was a movement called "de-instiutionalization." Mental hospital patients, if ther were proven not a violent threat to themselves or those around them, were kicked out of Saint Elizabeth's (DC's mental hospital). The burden of proof was on the one arguing to keep a patient locked up. It did not matter whether the patient was competent to care for himself. If they were not a violent threat, out they went.
That was a long time ago, but I believe we got comfortable with de-institutionalization (and the lower costs it brought the tax payers).
Just a couple of years ago, Creigh Deeds, a politician from Virginia had a mentally disturbed son. Deeds tried to have his son committed temporarily but there was no room. His son, later (that night I believe), stabbed Deeds in the face, then shot himself. Deeds then went on to sponsor a Virginia bill to expand the power to hold a mentally ill patient.
Not locking up violent mental patients does not go well with a society comfortable with private gun ownership. And I agree with Bazza, the family, for example in Aurora Col., had a responsibility to get their son help. That dude was bat-stuff crazy. Any layman looking at him could tell he wasn't right in the head.
 

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
63,451
67,350
462
crimsonaudio.net
As I posted in another thread recently, WHY aren't these people incarcerated and getting help in facilities like Bryce Hospital. Was it lack of funding that closed them and now we are living with them in our homes or they are living in/near the streets of America? Was it the electric shock treatments (or other ridiculous treatments) that caused the facilities to close? If not, what's the reason?
Lack of funding along with a series of SCOTUS decisions (which were likely the right decisions) that hamstrung the government's ability to hold people for observation.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,610
39,826
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
I used to live in downtown DC. There used be folks (mostly men) walking around downtown talking to Elvis or whatever. In the wake of the film "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest," there was a movement called "de-instiutionalization." Mental hospital patients, if ther were proven not a violent threat to themselves or those around them, were kicked out of Saint Elizabeth's (DC's mental hospital). The burden of proof was on the one arguing to keep a patient locked up. It did not matter whether the patient was competent to care for himself. If they were not a violent threat, out they went.
That was a long time ago, but I believe we got comfortable with de-institutionalization (and the lower costs it brought the tax payers).
Just a couple of years ago, Creigh Deeds, a politician from Virginia had a mentally disturbed son. Deeds tried to have his son committed temporarily but there was no room. His son, later (that night I believe), stabbed Deeds in the face, then shot himself. Deeds then went on to sponsor a Virginia bill to expand the power to hold a mentally ill patient.
Not locking up violent mental patients does not go well with a society comfortable with private gun ownership. And I agree with Bazza, the family, for example in Aurora Col., had a responsibility to get their son help. That dude was bat-stuff crazy. Any layman looking at him could tell he wasn't right in the head.
I'm afraid that parents can worry but practice denial for a long time about their kid's capacity to cause real damage. The Franklin kid here from 1998 is a good example. They were recently moved here from upstate NY, and no neighbors really knew them. They were terrified of him. He was hooked on prescription drugs. He killed both parents and chopped off the hands of his siblings in the house. I think one sister escaped mutilation because of being away from home. He was hauled away, grinning from the back of the patrol car and flicking his tongue out like a snake, imitating a heavy metal band of the time. It's easy to look back and say they should have at least put him on commitment hold, but the inclination of parents to say "my kid would never do that" is very strong...
 

92tide

TideFans Legend
May 9, 2000
58,278
45,068
287
54
East Point, Ga, USA
I'm afraid that parents can worry but practice denial for a long time about their kid's capacity to cause real damage. The Franklin kid here from 1998 is a good example. They were recently moved here from upstate NY, and no neighbors really knew them. They were terrified of him. He was hooked on prescription drugs. He killed both parents and chopped off the hands of his siblings in the house. I think one sister escaped mutilation because of being away from home. He was hauled away, grinning from the back of the patrol car and flicking his tongue out like a snake, imitating a heavy metal band of the time. It's easy to look back and say they should have at least put him on commitment hold, but the inclination of parents to say "my kid would never do that" is very strong...
the resources required to appropriately care for seriously mental ill folks are immense. both financially and in terms of skill.
 

chanson78

All-American
Nov 1, 2005
2,926
1,795
187
47
Huntsville, AL
With the actions of the legislature, they have become non-existent...
Don't forget the part that insurance companies play in this.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mental-illness-health-care-insurance-60-minutes/

Above article said:
Nancy West: They were telling the insurance company, "She needs to stay here. She needs more long-term treatment. She isn't ready for this."
The insurance company overruled the doctor. Katherine West came home as an outpatient.


Nancy West: I was texting her, no response. I got home at 12:30 that day and I found my daughter in bed. She'd been gone for hours. And I just remember running through the house screaming. I couldn't believe it. My beautiful girl was gone. She was gone.


Katherine was dead at the age of 15. As her doctors predicted, she'd been purging again, which led to heart failure.


Scott Pelley: Did it make sense to you that a doctor at the insurance company was making these decisions based on telephone conversations?


Nancy West: No. No, they didn't observe my daughter. You're talking about a psychiatrist, a pediatrician, a therapist who observed my daughter on a daily basis. But some nameless, faceless doctor is making this decision. And I was furious. Because basically to me he was playing God with my daughter's life.


The kind of review that resulted in the discharge of Katherine West works like this; after a patient is admitted, an insurance company representative starts calling the doctor every day, or every few days. If that representative decides that the patient is ready for a lower level of care, then the case is referred to an insurance company physician who reads the file, calls the doctor and renders a judgment. We have found in these chronic, expensive cases that judgment is most often a denial. How often the results are tragic, no one can say. But we have found examples.
I understand and agree with the sentiment regarding family take a larger role in the care of those who are mentally disturbed, however even when they try, that doesn't always equate to adequate care. It is a sticky problem. Is the expectation that people with mentally disturbed family members withdraw from life to care full time for that family member? You have now removed two people from productive society, one from the disease, the other in the full time care of the other. There is something to be said for economies of scale regarding taking care of people. Having a 1:1 ratio for care is unsustainable.
 

New Posts

TideFans.shop - NEW Stuff!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.