Link: Typical gubment at work, EPA digging around really mucked it up

tidegrandpa · Aug 7, 2015

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/mexico-blasts-epa-late-notice-colorado-mine-spill-32950177
:conf2:

Tidewater · Aug 7, 2015

tidegrandpa said:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/mexico-blasts-epa-late-notice-colorado-mine-spill-32950177
:conf2:

Reminds me of Ghostbusters when the EPA shut down the containment field, releasing all the ghosts.
"We're from the Federal government and we're here to help. Oops!"

cuda.1973 · Aug 7, 2015

Guess who they will stick with the clean-up costs.

Elefantman · Aug 9, 2015

The mustard-colored muck that spilled into a river from a shutteredColorado gold mine contains heavy metals including lead and arsenic, but it's too early to know whether they pose a health risk, federal environmental officials said Friday.

Prior to their screw-up the EPA considered this water to be a major health risk. Now that they dumped it into the river, they are not so sure it's a health risk. Go figure.

TIDE-HSV · Aug 9, 2015

I would never get out in that in my kayak. It looks calm, but what if you had to roll?

day-day · Aug 10, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
I would never get out in that in my kayak. It looks calm, but what if you had to roll?

I don't think I'd want to even risk getting my hands wet.

Just boil it good before you drink it.:eek2:

TIDE-HSV · Aug 10, 2015

day-day said:
I don't think I'd want to even risk getting my hands wet.

Just boil it good before you drink it.:eek2:

I don't think that would do away with heavy metals...

day-day · Aug 10, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
I don't think that would do away with heavy metals...

Not even close; if anything it would make them more concentrated. What a mess.

Timberline Tide · Aug 10, 2015

update: 3 million, not 1 million, gallons - Navajo Nation announces plans to sue EPA. Plume en route to Lake Powell

selmaborntidefan · Aug 10, 2015

Don't worry, folks - somehow SOME WAY - this will be blamed on George W Bush.

Btw, Earle's kayaking reference reminded me of an exchange on "WKRP:"

Bailey: "There's a station in Atlanta that sponsors a raft race. Maybe we should do something like that."

Andy Travis: "That's a pretty good idea except I'm afraid the Ohio River runs a little fast, people COULD get killed."

Dr Johnny Fever: "Nobody said it was gonna be easy. Next problem?"

ha ha ha

Tidewater · Aug 10, 2015

selmaborntidefan said:
Don't worry, folks - somehow SOME WAY - this will be blamed on George W Bush.

Btw, Earle's kayaking reference reminded me of an exchange on "WKRP:"

Bailey: "There's a station in Atlanta that sponsors a raft race. Maybe we should do something like that."

Andy Travis: "That's a pretty good idea except I'm afraid the Ohio River runs a little fast, people COULD get killed."

Dr Johnny Fever: "Nobody said it was gonna be easy. Next problem?"

ha ha ha

I have to say, it seems to me that the "you break it you fix it" approach should be at play here. The company (if they violated EPA safety guidelines) or the EPA (if those guidelines or EPA agents were to blame) or both should be forking out big time for this.
Here in Virginia two big environmental issue currently are an oil pipeline from West Virginia to the coast and uranium mining.
A lot of folks are up in arms. but I'm undecided. If adequate safeguards are in place to prevent a spill and to make the oil company pay a horrible price if one occurred (and I mean "take your breath away" sort of fine, and I would demand that money be put into an escrow account beforehand so the company can't just say "Oops" and go out of business if there is a spill), I might be up for it. The jobs would be nice locally and we need both oil and uranium. But the pipeline is going to have to transit the Monongahela and George Washington National Forests, and I don't want that messed up.
In both cases (oil and uranium), why can't the General Assembly just put in place a real "if you screw it up, you pay for the clean-up" provision? Maybe some of the attorneys and enlighten me. It just seem to be common practice in the US to allow to engage in environmentally risky behavior and when something goes wrong (the company hires a drunk to captain the oil tanker or they do not drill a parallel well in case of a blowout), legislation allows them to just say, "Oops."

TIDE-HSV · Aug 10, 2015

You know, that stuff could just dissolve the bottom of your plastic boat. Reminds me of the time I decided that I'd like to stick a little key box on the bottom of my car, but the magnet wouldn't hold, there was such an accumulation of road grit. I went and retrieved some MEK, put on plastic gloves and started clean a spot. Soon, I realized my sense of touch was too acute. The MEK had dissolved the gloves...

TIDE-HSV · Aug 10, 2015

Tidewater said:
I have to say, it seems to me that the "you break it you fix it" approach should be at play here. The company (if they violated EPA safety guidelines) or the EPA (if those guidelines or EPA agents were to blame) or both should be forking out big time for this.
Here in Virginia two big environmental issue currently are an oil pipeline from West Virginia to the coast and uranium mining.
A lot of folks are up in arms. but I'm undecided. If adequate safeguards are in place to prevent a spill and to make the oil company pay a horrible price if one occurred (and I mean "take your breath away" sort of fine, and I would demand that money be put into an escrow account beforehand so the company can't just say "Oops" and go out of business if there is a spill), I might be up for it. The jobs would be nice locally and we need both oil and uranium. But the pipeline is going to have to transit the Monongahela and George Washington National Forests, and I don't want that messed up.
In both cases (oil and uranium), why can't the General Assembly just put in place a real "if you screw it up, you pay for the clean-up" provision? Maybe some of the attorneys and enlighten me. It just seem to be common practice in the US to allow to engage in environmentally risky behavior and when something goes wrong (the company hires a drunk to captain the oil tanker or they do not drill a parallel well in case of a blowout), legislation allows them to just say, "Oops."

Actually, most of the environmental acts allow the government to name the officers of the company - or anyone material in the decision-making process as a PRP (Potentially Responsible Party). The fine then becomes personal, so bankruptcy of the company doesn't help them. Most of the suits are filed against EPA for an inadequate fine and enforcement...

Aledinho · Aug 12, 2015

A letter published on July 30th in the Silverton Standard local newspaper predicted this would happen.

Based on my 47 years of experience as a professional geologist, it appears to me that the EPA is setting your town and the area up for possible Superfund blitzkrieg.

TIDE-HSV · Aug 13, 2015

Aledinho said:
A letter published on July 30th in the Silverton Standard local newspaper predicted this would happen.

Wow!

mittman · Aug 13, 2015

He did nail what happened. I feel confident he nailed the next action too.

BamaFlum · Aug 13, 2015

Wow! Prophetic to say the least.

TideEngineer08 · Aug 13, 2015

Amazing. There are several bureaucratic organizations that need to be seriously curtailed or disbanded. It seems to me the EPA is at the top of that list.

cbi1972 · Aug 13, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
You know, that stuff could just dissolve the bottom of your plastic boat. Reminds me of the time I decided that I'd like to stick a little key box on the bottom of my car, but the magnet wouldn't hold, there was such an accumulation of road grit. I went and retrieved some MEK, put on plastic gloves and started clean a spot. Soon, I realized my sense of touch was too acute. The MEK had dissolved the gloves...

Even the fumes can melt most plastics.

Al A Bama · Aug 13, 2015

TideEngineer08 said:
Amazing. There are several bureaucratic organizations that need to be seriously curtailed or disbanded. It seems to me the EPA is at the top of that list.

Totally agree.

Link: Typical gubment at work, EPA digging around really mucked it up

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