News Article: Kentucky Clerk Is Due In Federal Court For Contempt Hearing

Bamaro

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Kim Davis, the Rowan County clerk who has been in the national spotlight for refusing to hand out marriage licenses, will appear before a federal judge this morning for a hearing on whether she should be held in contempt.

A lower court had ordered Davis to issue marriage licenses, despite her religious objections. She appealed and then went all the way up to the Supreme Court to ask that the lower court's decision be put aside while she waited for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit to issue an opinion on the matter.
She's going to lose. Its the law and if she cant uphold it for religious reasons she should ask for a transfer or resign. I feel sorry for her being in this position but it is what it is.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-is-due-in-federal-court-for-contempt-hearing
 

Jon

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She's going to lose. Its the law and if she cant uphold it for religious reasons she should ask for a transfer or resign. I feel sorry for her being in this position but it is what it is.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-is-due-in-federal-court-for-contempt-hearing
I feel as sorry for her as the Muslim cashier that has to occasionally sell pork or alcohol. If there is an aspect of your job that you feel you can't do because of your beliefs get a new job.

But, she's been married 4 times and was pregnant with her 3rd husbands kids(twins) while married to her first husband, she seems to have a pretty selective application of the bible so I doubt any of this is sincere anyway. She should be fired and I hope the courts lock her up for contempt. I fully expect her to try to sell a book, start a gofundme for her legal defense and try to become a "star" of the right wing persecution circuit
 

Bamaro

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I feel as sorry for her as the Muslim cashier that has to occasionally sell pork or alcohol. If there is an aspect of your job that you feel you can't do because of your beliefs get a new job.

But, she's been married 4 times and was pregnant with her 3rd husbands kids(twins) while married to her first husband, she seems to have a pretty selective application of the bible so I doubt any of this is sincere anyway. She should be fired and I hope the courts lock her up for contempt. I fully expect her to try to sell a book, start a gofundme for her legal defense and try to become a "star" of the right wing persecution circuit
Yeah, she does seem 'somewhat' selective in her religious practices.
 

crimsonaudio

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I feel as sorry for her as the Muslim cashier that has to occasionally sell pork or alcohol. If there is an aspect of your job that you feel you can't do because of your beliefs get a new job.
Agree completely.

But, she's been married 4 times and was pregnant with her 3rd husbands kids(twins) while married to her first husband, she seems to have a pretty selective application of the bible so I doubt any of this is sincere anyway.
People have been quick to post all about this while ignoring that she only recently (last few years) became a Christian - after these things transpired.

Not defending her actions - I think she's out of line - I just want the whole story out there since people are so quick to selectively pick data in order to bolster their arguments.
 

Jon

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Agree completely.


People have been quick to post all about this while ignoring that she only recently (last few years) became a Christian - after these things transpired.

Not defending her actions - I think she's out of line - I just want the whole story out there since people are so quick to selectively pick data in order to bolster their arguments.
it's one of the things about Christianity that I absolutely hate. To you she may be a good christian now. To me she is a adulterous scumbag, don't care what she claims to believe now.

I have a good friend who's husband was banging dudes off of craigs list. He gave her an STD but its all good he went to a pastor and repented and gave up dudes so when I occasionally run into him so I feel all is ok because he is now a christian? Would you give him a pass?
 

crimsonaudio

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it's one of the things about Christianity that I absolutely hate. To you she may be a good christian now. To me she is a adulterous scumbag, don't care what she claims to believe now.
The point is, it isn't hypocrisy if she didn't believe it what she was doing was wrong then. That doesn't mean the behavior wasn't sinful, it simply means you cannot call it hypocrisy - it simply isn't.

I have a good friend who's husband was banging dudes off of craigs list. He gave her an STD but its all good he went to a pastor and repented and gave up dudes so when I occasionally run into him so I feel all is ok because he is now a christian? Would you give him a pass?
I'd forgive him, sure. Doesn't mean I'd forget it ever happened.

If understanding grace and compassion aren't in your wheelhouse, that's fine. As a Christian, I do my best to follow the ideal example of grace and compassion. I get that it does't make sense to you, but calling her a hypocrite is akin to calling someone stupid because they don't understand Algebra before ever studying Algebra.
 

Tidewater

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it's one of the things about Christianity that I absolutely hate. To you she may be a good christian now. To me she is a adulterous scumbag, don't care what she claims to believe now.
It is at once the great strength and the great weakness of Christianity. Redemption is open to all. How sincere repentance is is not for me to judge. That said, I do not believe that redemption clears a wrong-doer of consequences. You can be redeemed and still have to deal with the consequences.

And having said all of that, I believe as a state employee, she has a duty to carry out the law, whether she personally approves of that law or not. If a Federal judge cited the X Amendment and ruled that the Federal government has no jurisdiction over this case, I'd be shocked. She is bring the case on I Amendment grounds, and I'm fairly certain the judge is going to tell her, "issue the licenses or I will fine you $10,000/day and sentence you to jail for contempt of court." If you take the king's coin, you do the king's bidding.
 

Jon

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The point is, it isn't hypocrisy if she didn't believe it what she was doing was wrong then. That doesn't mean the behavior wasn't sinful, it simply means you cannot call it hypocrisy - it simply isn't.


I'd forgive him, sure. Doesn't mean I'd forget it ever happened.

If understanding grace and compassion aren't in your wheelhouse, that's fine. As a Christian, I do my best to follow the ideal example of grace and compassion. I get that it does't make sense to you, but calling her a hypocrite is akin to calling someone stupid because they don't understand Algebra before ever studying Algebra.
sorry? please show me exactly where I called her a hypocrite? I don't recall typing that, maybe you could show me?

I can show compassion. I feel very compassionate towards my friend and her children that were victimized by this scum of a husband. Ever since she booted the bum from her life (oh and got shunned by her pastor and church for not forgiving him and honoring their marriage.) I've been the guy that helps her with man around the house stuff. I make sure her kids are included with ours and try to help as much as I can. Again, I'll never care for what he claims to believe as I would not doubt for a minute that if he tricks another young good christian (which my friend was) into marrying him so his family thinks he is straight he will go right back to hooking up with random dudes behind her back. But it's cool he'll just go repent again and then I am expected to show him grace? Not gonna happen, ever.


and i'll edit to add thank you for pointing out another of my most hated christian things. The condescending "i'm better than you because I can show him grace and compassion and you wouldn't understand" crap. That guy deserves no compassion. He has ruined her life completely. She can't even move on due to the STD he left her with.
 
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crimsonaudio

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sorry? please show me exactly where I called her a hypocrite? I don't recall typing that, maybe you could show me?
That was the implication - why else bring up her past?

I'm thankful you've taken this family under your wings like that. I'm saddened that you don't believe that people can change.
 

TideEngineer08

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sorry? please show me exactly where I called her a hypocrite? I don't recall typing that, maybe you could show me?

I can show compassion. I feel very compassionate towards my friend and her children that were victimized by this scum of a husband. Ever since she booted the bum from her life (oh and got shunned by her pastor and church for not forgiving him and honoring their marriage.) I've been the guy that helps her with man around the house stuff. I make sure her kids are included with ours and try to help as much as I can. Again, I'll never care for what he claims to believe as I would not doubt for a minute that if he tricks another young good christian (which my friend was) into marrying him so his family thinks he is straight he will go right back to hooking up with random dudes behind her back. But it's cool he'll just go repent again and then I am expected to show him grace? Not gonna happen, ever.
That man is scum, and that pastor is wrong and the church is wrong for shunning the woman. And no, she shouldn't be required or expected to take the man back. But the man CAN be forgiven, so can the pastor and so can this Kentucky clerk for her past, present and future sins. But forgiveness does not equal being absolved from the consequences of what we've done.

Jon, I'm sorry you've had so many bad experiences with Christians and I'm sad to say I'm not surprised by them. I've had my own. But I simply believe it's because I'm dealing with human being who are inherently evil. To each his or her own, but I'm sincere with you when I say I'm sorry.
 

Jon

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That was the implication - why else bring up her past?

I'm thankful you've taken this family under your wings like that. I'm saddened that you don't believe that people can change.
I love how you continue to put words into my mouth, where did I say people can't change? But let's stop the rat hole

Just saw that Kim Davis has been taken into custody....Good
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/kim...nd-taken-into-federal-custody-by-us-marshals/

I'm sure she'll be on Hannity within the week, this poor persecuted christian soul
 
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Jon

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That man is scum, and that pastor is wrong and the church is wrong for shunning the woman. And no, she shouldn't be required or expected to take the man back. But the man CAN be forgiven, so can the pastor and so can this Kentucky clerk for her past, present and future sins. But forgiveness does not equal being absolved from the consequences of what we've done.

Jon, I'm sorry you've had so many bad experiences with Christians and I'm sad to say I'm not surprised by them. I've had my own. But I simply believe it's because I'm dealing with human being who are inherently evil. To each his or her own, but I'm sincere with you when I say I'm sorry.

I think you'd be shocked at the number of stories you get told when people learn that you won't tell them to go back to church or their pastor when they have problems. I'll leave it at that.

I'd PM you, but I can't and I'm already mad at myself for derailing another thread, apologies to all.
 

crimsonaudio

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I love how you continue to put words into my mouth, where did I say people can't change?
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I'm trying to understand what you're saying. If you don't think her hypocritical, why bring up her past? If you cannot forgive this man's behavior (nor Davis's), how is it putting words in your mouth to assume you don't believe people can change?
 

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I think you'd be shocked at the number of stories you get told when people learn that you won't tell them to go back to church or their pastor when they have problems. I'll leave it at that.

I'd PM you, but I can't and I'm already mad at myself for derailing another thread, apologies to all.
Christianity becomes a lot easier to grasp when you come to the understanding that true Christians don't think they're better than anyone else. They don't think they're without sin. Anyone claiming they are isn't a Christian. I'm not better than anyone else. I never have been and I never will be. I've done some terrible things and I will continue to do terrible things until the day I die. I will do everything I can to prevent myself from doing those terrible things, but I will fail.

I have a hard time with a lot of the things that have happened lately. Gov. Bentley's staffer who put "Loves Jesus" in her Twitter profile while carrying out a secret affair, or the Duggard situation, Sam and Nia, and now this. There have been a lot of black eyes for Christians lately. Part of me doesn't want to wear my faith on my sleeve because if I screw up in a big way it's going to reflect poorly on anyone else who shares my faith.

On the other hand, I'm kind of ok with the people who do wear their faith on their sleeve being shown to be sinners just like the rest of the world, because they are sinners just like the rest of the world, and it's important that there isn't that distinction. That wall that people think seems insurmountable isn't even there. The reality is that we're all hypocrites. The reality is, it's not the Bible or God you're mad at, it's the "Christians" who can't quote a line of scripture other than John 3:16. It's the "Christians," who act like that title is a free reign to do whatever they want to whoever they want because ultimately their sins will be absolved. It's "Christians," who bump lines of coke on Saturdays and show up Sunday mornings wearing a cross around their neck.

I can't answer for why some people who share my faith do the things they do. I'll never be able to answer for them, just like they wont be able to answer for me. This isn't simply a problem with Christianity, but Christians sure get the brunt of the burden, and I guess that's ok. We're under a microscope for a reason.
 

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