An Honest Question About DB Play For Those Who KNow

Tideflyer

Hall of Fame
Dec 14, 2011
7,826
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Savannah, GA
First of all, thought our D backfield play was better. They were throwing a lot because the front 7 made their running game a non-factor. Having said that, it appears our CB`s, in particular, simply will not turn their heads, thus pretty much ensuring a PI call if there`s any contact at all. Is that taught (hard to believe)? On a couple of the PI penalties it appeared that our DB was right there. It wasn`t like he was 5 yards behind and trying to catch up. I just don`t understand.
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
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I'm not sure about the DBs not turning around to locate the ball. They should use the receivers hands and eyes as the key to turn and look for the ball.

I wanted to bring up something else. I watch a lot of football and I'm not sure I've ever seen so many passes that are an inch or less away from being tipped by the defensive back as I see against Bama. It seems like there is always 3 or 4 passes per game that are an inch or less away from being tipped by one of our DBs but the ball falls perfectly over the outstretched fingertips of the DB and the ball falls right into the hands of the WR. Hard to fault the DBs on those plays when they have forced the QB to make a perfect throw but I have to say that those throws seem to happen way to often.

Last thought about the secondary. We have got to get more consistent pressure from the DLine. Yes we had 3 sacks vs Wisconsin but 2 of those were on busted assignments by Wisconsin's OLine. If the QB can just stand in the pocket without pressure there will always be a WR that opens up. I'm not complaining or being negative about the DLine (they were great against the rush) but it seems we still lack a consistent pass rush..
 
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AlexanderFan

Hall of Fame
Jul 23, 2004
11,076
7,524
187
Birmingham
You tell me how they're supposed to read back shoulder fades. If you watch the defense the receiver's are always locked out on the dB creating the space necessary for the pass. The techniques Saban teaches are NFL techniques which not everybody can properly utilize. Added to the fact are the rules being greatly slanted towards the offense and is easier to see why the struggles are there.

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CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
12,757
94
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You tell me how they're supposed to read back shoulder fades. If you watch the defense the receiver's are always locked out on the dB creating the space necessary for the pass. The techniques Saban teaches are NFL techniques which not everybody can properly utilize. Added to the fact are the rules being greatly slanted towards the offense and is easier to see why the struggles are there.

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Back shoulder fades haven't been the biggest culprit. It's been long passes down the field when our DBs for whatever reason (could be the technique they are taught) never turn to locate the ball..
 

deliveryman35

Hall of Fame
Jul 26, 2003
12,998
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Gadsden, AL
I wonder sometimes if it's just lack of confidence with our guys. The physical talent and coaching pieces(Saban himself) are there, yet it seems we have struggled mightily.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
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I saw Jones turn when he was tested deep. The younger guys tended to try and time when they should throw up their hands to deflect the ball with mixed success. In the NFL, you must look back or you will get flagged every time. In college this generally works well enough but the officials were idiots.
 

Power Eye

All-SEC
Aug 3, 2005
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I saw Jones turn when he was tested deep. The younger guys tended to try and time when they should throw up their hands to deflect the ball with mixed success. In the NFL, you must look back or you will get flagged every time. In college this generally works well enough but the officials were idiots.
This was my take. Jones plays the ball and reads the receivers well. Fitzpatrick and Humphrey struggled with that some last night. Saban really got on Fitzpatrick for that PI in the endzone late in the game and was telling him he should have found the ball.

Against Ole Miss, we are really going to need some solid secondary play.
 

bamacpa

All-American
Jul 19, 2006
4,783
1,073
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It felt like Wiscy completed a lot of passes on us. I'm not totally sold on this secondary improvement just yet.,


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TideFan in AU

Hall of Fame
It felt like Wiscy completed a lot of passes on us. I'm not totally sold on this secondary improvement just yet.,


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Stave completed a lot of passes but it was a 5.8 YPC average, and most the passes were completed before halftime.

Wisconsin's drives after halftime against our 1st team defense were:
5 plays for 8 yards - PUNT
3 plays for 4 yards - PUNT
3 plays for 0 yards - PUNT
9 plays for 42 yards - FG
3 plays for -9 yard - PUNT

That was defensive dominance against a team that abandoned their running game. I'm not saying Wisconsin is a great passing team, but we completely shut them down after halftime.
 

Redwood Forrest

Hall of Fame
Sep 19, 2003
11,042
907
237
76
Boaz, AL USA
About halfway thru the 2nd Qtr. I told my wife that Wisconsin is NOT a good passing team but they are 8-9 against us. Are they that good or is it we are that bad? I guess Ole Miss will answer that question.

My own opinion was Wisconsin got lucky on half those passes and should have been 5-9 instead of 8-9.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,615
4,540
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kraizy.art
Well, for one thing when the other team is throwing accurate passes, that's a huge factor. Most of the time if the ball is placed well, there's nothing the defender can do short of drawing a flag. So that was one thing. The team as a whole seemed to improve as the game went on though.

The other issue to me was that there were two pretty experienced guys out there. A true freshman and a redshirt freshman, both of course making their first starts. So, I was a bit worried but I think barring injury they will improve as the season progresses.
 

Alasippi

Suspended
Aug 31, 2007
12,875
2
57
Ocean Springs, MS
The db's have to find the ball. They can read the receivers eyes and other movements all they want, it's part of the technique, but to be effective, especially on downfield throws, they simply have to locate the ball. One of the first things the new secondary coach said at his hiring press conference was, "You better believe we're going to turn and find the ball".
Third downs are really beginning to be an adventure. Hopefully we'll correct it.
I'll say this about pass coverage as well. We have outstanding outside linebackers, but they're not fast enough to cover the back out of the backfield. That play eats our lunch. I'm not the coach, or a coach, but on obvious passing downs, I'm playing an extra corner at OLB, and we're shutting the back down.
sip
 

imauafan

All-American
Mar 3, 2004
3,619
977
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Huntsville, AL
1) I'm still concerned about our secondary. I think the talent level has been upgraded and bringing in Coach Tucker and moving Smart to LB coach should be an overall improvement (not a knock on Smart). But it will take time for these things to pay dividends. Hopefully it will be this season. I still recall Mark Barron, Dre Kirkpatrick, and Dee Millner (especially Dee) all looking lost their freshman seasons. It usually takes 1 full season and part of another to truly "get it".

2) I think Stave is probably a better QB than we think. Chryst is a proven QB coach and offensive coordinator. Don't underestimate his ability to bring the best out of his QB. However I'm not sure their WR's are all-world.

3) Back to point #1, we better be ready to outscore a team or two on our schedule if we expect to go undefeated and/or have a shot at the NC.
 

UAinAthens

Scout Team
Jul 5, 2001
151
157
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gmail.com
I think the DB play of the 1st team was overall pretty good. Remember, our goal last night was to stop the run, so for the first half especially, LB and even S were in the box first. There was only one or maybe two completions down field until late in the game, the rest were short passes in the flat to the RB. That also lead to the lack of pass rush and the high completion percentage, as they are easy to complete, and are very quick passes. As soon as the game required them to try to throw down the field, the pass rush started affecting the QB, either with sacks but more often with hits or knocked down passes.

Regarding getting their head around, CNS has offered long discussions about how the DB play many times. Part of that includes watching the receiver first, and looking based on what they do. I think younger players struggle on when to look back, and it hurts them. What I liked was the number of times the DB was right with the receiver. What we all didn't like is how few times there was an actual play on the ball. The times where the ball dropped over the DB appeared to be zone coverage, but only the player and the coaches know if that was a well thrown ball, or the DB was out of position. It was obvious by his comments at the end of the game that the 2nd string was not up to par.

What I would expect to see for a team like OM is less stacking the box, and more dime coverage, which would improve the pass defense significantly.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
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[Quote ]

What I would expect to see for a team like OM is less stacking the box, and more dime coverage, which would improve the pass defense significantly.[/QUOTE]Ole Miss tries to affect the QB with only the 4 linemen. This gives them a lot more freedom in coverage.
 

Gr8hope

All-American
Nov 10, 2010
3,408
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When the QB was pressured (seemed like only the 2nd half) he was much less accurate, especially when he was on the ground. I think this is the answer.
Do the coaches encourage pressuring him with blitzes only in the 2nd half to reserve energy?
 

JustNeedMe81

Hall of Fame
Sep 30, 2011
14,905
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Huntsville, Al
I think I'm very encouraged by our play last night. We have two young DBs that they were targeting all night long... I expect teams to attack them a lot .
 

bamanix

1st Team
Mar 24, 2010
528
0
0
in the second half, we were effective because we started blitzing more, and it rattled their qb. in the good old days our safeties, including the dime safeties would come up and put pressure on the defense. also we always had one lighter linebacker capable of defending tight end passes, and drops behind our defensive line. it was really good to see the pressure the second half. they physically destroyed their offense.
 

Padreruf

Hall of Fame
Feb 12, 2001
8,687
12,227
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Charleston, South Carolina
Yes...they completed a lot of passes...welcome to modern football. Their game plan for us was perfect...until we changed and took away the short pass. We have upgraded at DB and the sky is not falling...Humphrey played better and better as the game progressed. Remember: a lot of new faces and changed positions...against an experienced team and QB.
 

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