Shocking stat from last season: Bama was last in FBS defending 3rd & Long...

KrAzY3 · Sep 18, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Bama was last in FBS defending 3rd ...

CrimsonForce said:
Yep. I feel like Bama will need to score in the 30s to win the game. Hope the offense can produce that many points. I also hope it doesn't come down to a field goal..

It's just a bad time for this game, much like it was a bad time for the game last year.

Odds are Alabama's kicking situation will be resolved one way or another eventually, the quarterback, whoever he is will settle down, and the young guys in the secondary will adjust. But, for Alabama, a team that is constantly reloading, it's always going to be hard to play a game like this so early in the season. I'd say generally it's a little easier to be prepared for say the traditionally big games that come late like LSU and Auburn, but... on the other hand at least losing this game doesn't sink Alabama's title hopes.

TRU · Sep 18, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Alabama is last in FBS defending 3r...

KrAzY3 said:
There are a lot of factors at play here. One is the simple fact that Alabama creates a lot of third and longs. If you look at the stats given, Alabama is last on the total number but while still bad, quite a few spaces from last in terms of percentage. I imagine if the stat was third and longs created, Alabama would rank very high.

Of course that's not all there is to it. Another issue is the loophole of the clock change and the fact that it allows HUNH teams to block substitutions. So, the offense if they want can keep the defense from changing to a third down defense, Alabama might be set up to stop the run, might have succeeded twice in a row, but suddenly that defense has to defend the pass. Of course there are more issues than that, but you can see how Alabama being good at one thing can mean they're worse at another. I don't see that as being able to change unless they fix the issues.

The thing that exacerbated this though, and led to Alabama's defense actually being so bad at this was the secondary though. I believe Alabama also did very poorly on big plays as well. I don't see innate problems with the secondary, I just saw some issues in terms of talent and inexperience. I certainly don't expect Alabama to be worst at this statistic again. However, part of the deal is Alabama's defense, in this no-substitution era just can't be good at everything, that's all there is to it.

I believe that this is indicative of the Achille's heel of the defense developed by CNS and CKS that allowed Bama to dominate a few years ago. Their defense is based upon liberal substitutions that optimize the personnel on the field for the situation. You have a lot of specialists that defend against a certain situation but are not good at defending other situations. The HUNH overcomes this by blocking substitutions. So as Krazy points out, for two downs the D does great because you have guys on the filed optimized to defend the run, but third and long comes along and your package is not good against the pass. And against the HUNH, you cannot substitute to get your pass defense package in. And you get beat. The solution is obviously to build more flexibility into the defensive package so they can defend effectively. But there are two problems with that solution. First it requires CNS and CKS to give up on a strategy that they have developed over decades and until recently has been very successful. It is hard to give up something that you have nurtured over the years and has paid you back so handsomely in the past. Second, the old way works fine against the teams that do not run the HUNH and substitutions are still easy to do. So you are faced with the need to develop two defensive strategies with two different personnel needs - one for HUNH teams and one for conventional offenses. And this is really impossible. So I look to CNS to stick with the tried and true, and the fans will have to get used to getting burned on third and long by the HUNH teams. Bama will continue to try to beat the HUNH by outscoring it, as they did last year.

Mystical · Sep 18, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Alabama is last in FBS defending 3rd &

Catfish said:

Love it where's the like button when you need it lol.

Mystical · Sep 18, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Bama was last in FBS defending 3rd ...

KrAzY3 said:
It's just a bad time for this game, much like it was a bad time for the game last year.

Odds are Alabama's kicking situation will be resolved one way or another eventually, the quarterback, whoever he is will settle down, and the young guys in the secondary will adjust. But, for Alabama, a team that is constantly reloading, it's always going to be hard to play a game like this so early in the season. I'd say generally it's a little easier to be prepared for say the traditionally big games that come late like LSU and Auburn, but... on the other hand at least losing this game doesn't sink Alabama's title hopes.

Say it aint so. Not you to.

fundytide · Sep 18, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Bama was last in FBS defending 3rd ...

GrayTide said:
Edwards was also just on Finebaum and said that the teams were basically dead even and the outcome would be decided by which QB has the better game. Not any great revelation, but lots of pressure for Jake.

Maybe even more pressure on Kelly than on Coker. Kelly is on the road and he has no real run threat to rely on- it's on him.

colbysullivan · Sep 18, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Bama was last in FBS defending 3rd ...

fundytide said:
Maybe even more pressure on Kelly than on Coker. Kelly is on the road and he has no real run threat to rely on- it's on him.

That's what I'm saying. Bama is built for games like this. Kelly has no idea what he's stepping into...

Alasippi · Sep 18, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Bama was last in FBS defending 3rd ...

No pressure on the quarterback, no pass defense.
No DB's turning to find the ball on longer pass plays.......completed passes.
We need to start bringing folks off the corner, and, on obvious passing situations, we have to give our linemen the freedom to lower their ears and go after the Quarterback.
If they run a screen or draw, so be it. It might work against us sometimes, but at least it won't be like it is now, where 3rd and 17 scares me more than first and goal from the one.sip

deliveryman35 · Sep 18, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Alabama is last in FBS defending 3rd &

Mystical said:
Love it where's the like button when you need it lol.

And your base your prediction about our corners tomorrow night on what?

JDCrimson · Sep 18, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Bama was last in FBS defending 3rd ...

Here is what I don't understand. How close do you have to be to the WR to be considered in phase? Sometimes you can be so close to the WR that you take away your own ability to make a play on the ball. Also in phase can also make you unable to defend the back shoulder throw. To me regardless of how close the DB is to the WR the objective is to position yourself such that the pass has to be thrown over or through the DB where the first increases the chance of an overthrown ball and the latter more likely deflected or intercepted. This is the way I was taught in high school and it was basically the same concept taught in defending entry passes in basketball. It seemed to work okay in high school. We batted down lots of balls and intercepted quite a few as well. However with this technique we were not always in the best position to make a tackle after the catch. I can see why we teach our players the way we do but the accuracy in passing is so much better that you have to look for the ball on every play imo.

What I am really surprised at is how bad our zone coverage has been. You don't have to worry about whether your in phase. In zone its really about pressure on the line and how well the secondary can see their area and the ball at the same time and their anticipation of where the ball is going to be thrown.

I get that not all 5 star players pan out, etc. But this statistic pretty much validates in my mind that even great players can be put into the wrong position. Its obvious that there were many teams with very average players playing much better defense situationally than we were or are currently.

Its almost like we are back to playing football the way they did 50 or 60 years ago where they had limited substitution rules where you had to play several plays before a legal substitution could be made.

What I do know is there has to be 5 teams in the top 5 in 3rd down defense. I think it might be worthwhile to watch film on those teams to see what sort of strategies they are employing to be so good on 3rd down. Because a statistic like this suggests there is a significant difference in the approaches being taken to defend 3rd down.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

KrAzY3 · Sep 18, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Bama was last in FBS defending 3rd ...

It is worth noting that Alabama's defense has done very well this year. They played two good teams, which in their other games scored over 50 and 70 respectively, and the defense got the job done. It's all well and good to nitpick one aspect of the defense, but the simple fact is Alabama's defense is good. What they are doing is good, and if that comes with a weakness so be it.

TIDE-HSV · Sep 19, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Bama was last in FBS defending 3rd ...

JDCrimson said:
Here is what I don't understand. How close do you have to be to the WR to be considered in phase? Sometimes you can be so close to the WR that you take away your own ability to make a play on the ball. Also in phase can also make you unable to defend the back shoulder throw. To me regardless of how close the DB is to the WR the objective is to position yourself such that the pass has to be thrown over or through the DB where the first increases the chance of an overthrown ball and the latter more likely deflected or intercepted. This is the way I was taught in high school and it was basically the same concept taught in defending entry passes in basketball. It seemed to work okay in high school. We batted down lots of balls and intercepted quite a few as well. However with this technique we were not always in the best position to make a tackle after the catch. I can see why we teach our players the way we do but the accuracy in passing is so much better that you have to look for the ball on every play imo.

What I am really surprised at is how bad our zone coverage has been. You don't have to worry about whether your in phase. In zone its really about pressure on the line and how well the secondary can see their area and the ball at the same time and their anticipation of where the ball is going to be thrown.

I get that not all 5 star players pan out, etc. But this statistic pretty much validates in my mind that even great players can be put into the wrong position. Its obvious that there were many teams with very average players playing much better defense situationally than we were or are currently.

Its almost like we are back to playing football the way they did 50 or 60 years ago where they had limited substitution rules where you had to play several plays before a legal substitution could be made.

What I do know is there has to be 5 teams in the top 5 in 3rd down defense. I think it might be worthwhile to watch film on those teams to see what sort of strategies they are employing to be so good on 3rd down. Because a statistic like this suggests there is a significant difference in the approaches being taken to defend 3rd down.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

I haven't noticed the weaknesses you mention so far this year. Are you speaking of last year or the current team. I modified the title to "was" to make it clear, or so I thought, that these stats were from last year. I guess I can modify it further...

JDCrimson · Sep 19, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Bama was last in FBS defending 3rd ...

TIDE-HSV said:
I haven't noticed the weaknesses you mention so far this year. Are you speaking of last year or the current team. I modified the title to "was" to make it clear, or so I thought, that these stats were from last year. I guess I can modify it further...

Thanks, yes I was primarily referring to last year's team. Hopefully we will see better execution in the secondary this season. I have seen some improvement. Hopefully will continue to progress.

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JBama_in_PCOLA · Sep 19, 2015

If we get to the QB all this is mute! Lol (moot)

Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus RTR

Mystical · Sep 19, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Alabama is last in FBS defending 3rd &

deliveryman35 said:
And your base your prediction about our corners tomorrow night on what?

Just looking a the coverage this year. It has been good. We don't have cover safeties back their now. Where as before we had run stopping safeties. If I am wrong about the secondary being much better I won't post for a week.

TIDE-HSV · Sep 19, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Alabama is last in FBS defending 3rd &

Mystical said:
Just looking a the coverage this year. It has been good. We don't have cover safeties back their now. Where as before we had run stopping safeties. If I am wrong about the secondary being much better I won't post for a week.

I look for it to be better, myself. Some of the 5*s have some seasoning, now. I'm a little concerned about safety, with the injuries, but I like the subs...

melvinm · Sep 19, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Alabama is last in FBS defending 3rd &

It's seems amazing how many 3rd & longs Bama has given up.

Bama Torch in Pcola · Sep 19, 2015

Re: One of the most shocking stats I've seen: Alabama is last in FBS defending 3rd &

What is it they say about the definition of insanity....?

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