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We Can Still Win The National Title (Snapshot of Where We Are)

tidefanbeezer

tidefanbeezer

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Sep 25, 2006
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PitMaster said:
Maybe, we need to hire a guy to "Teach" special teams. I know the current guy is a long-timer with Coach Saban, but we are painfully bad on special teams. Probably cost us the game last night imo. We have not had a difference maker in the return game since Javy left, and Williams somehow has screwed up a guy I thought might just turn out to be in Ray Guy's class.
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Plenty of other people have expressed the same opinions I have in regards to your post, so I will only nit pick on the above quoted area.

I know that our special teams are not as good as they could be. But they are not as dire as you seem to think.

JK Scott is getting his groove back. His problem is his success his freshman year; it put an unreasonable expectation on him for this year. He seems to have hit a little bit of a sophomore slump, but he looks to be pulling out of it already.

You do Javy a disservice if you think returners like him are available in every recruiting class. Javy set conference and national records in the return game. That doesn't happen every year. Javy was a rare breed in the return game.

You do Christion Jones a disservice to suggest that no one has been a game changer since Javy. Jones essentially won the VT game in 2013 with a kick and punt return for TD. He had key kick and punt returns in some really big games.

Javy left in 2010 and Jones left after last season. So are you basing your opinion on the lack of a game changer on a 3 game sample in which we are breaking in new return men?

And FYI...the man who has us "painfully bad on special teams" has been on staff since 2008 and coached the 2 game changers mentioned above and the special teams units for all our title teams. He must be doing something right.
 
92tide

92tide

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tidefanbeezer said:
Plenty of other people have expressed the same opinions I have in regards to your post, so I will only nit pick on the above quoted area.

I know that our special teams are not as good as they could be. But they are not as dire as you seem to think.

JK Scott is getting his groove back. His problem is his success his freshman year; it put an unreasonable expectation on him for this year. He seems to have hit a little bit of a sophomore slump, but he looks to be pulling out of it already.

You do Javy a disservice if you think returners like him are available in every recruiting class. Javy set conference and national records in the return game. That doesn't happen every year. Javy was a rare breed in the return game.

You do Christion Jones a disservice to suggest that no one has been a game changer since Javy. Jones essentially won the VT game in 2013 with a kick and punt return for TD. He had key kick and punt returns in some really big games.

Javy left in 2010 and Jones left after last season. So are you basing your opinion on the lack of a game changer on a 3 game sample in which we are breaking in new return men?

And FYI...the man who has us "painfully bad on special teams" has been on staff since 2008 and coached the 2 game changers mentioned above and the special teams units for all our title teams. He must be doing something right.
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and there was also maze. he was a great return man
 
PitMaster

PitMaster

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Aug 24, 2015
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0
TideFan in AU said:
It's kinda funny that CNS saw the need for a change and hired an OC known for a wide open, more pass oriented offense and he is being criticized for it now. After 2013, that is what everybody said we needed, right? It was said that our offense was stale (even though we averaged 37 PPG) and we needed to open it up to keep up with HUNH teams. Now the general consensus is that we need to get back basics, run the ball and pass just enough to keep teams, and win with defense. The truth is when you are not winning, there is also going to be people that know exactly what you're doing wrong, and they will be quick to tell you how fix it because it's not their butt on the line. If what a Coach does or tries works - he's a genius. If it doesn't, he's a bum/over the hill/he's peaked, etc, etc.

I think we are in a transition phase. There seems to be a emphasis from CNS that we need a mobile QB, and the recruiting reflects that with Cornwell, Barnett, and the QB's were are recruiting now. I also think that weighed heavy in the decision to try Bateman. I think we're experiencing growing pains (along with replacing 9 starters on offense) but I saw a lot of things to be excited about going forward.

Another thing we always get when CNS loses is the Coach Bryant comparisons get dusted off and lobbed out there, and it drives me nuts. The era in which CPB coached and now is light years apart. CPB changed to the Wishbone 1971 and it took a few years to get things fully up speed. In fact - and this will probably be something that will make a few people run their lips out - CPB wouldn't have won a NC until possibly 1977 under today's rules. CPB won the UPI NC in 1973, but lost the Bowl Game to ND. Under the rules in which CPB coached, Saban would have won Coaches Poll NC's in 2008 and 2013. I don't say this to discredit any of CPB's accomplishments, I'm only saying it to underscore how freaking hard it is to win a NC in today's College Football. Under today's rules (meaning the bowl game counts), CPB would have went from 1966 - 1977 without winning a NC. That would be 11 years without a title, and here we are 2 years and 3 games removed from CNS' last Championship and there are actually people are throwing in the towel on him.

Coming into this game we had zero fumbles, and 2 INT's (1 by each QB). This game looks like statistic outlier, much like last year against Florida, when we had 4 fumbles (3 lost) and an INT. Nobody seems to remember how bad we actually played in that game because we won convincingly.

It's funny how winning does that.
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Maybe Coach was addressing the wrong thing?
 
A

Alasippi

Suspended
Aug 31, 2007
12,875
2
57
Ocean Springs, MS
superbamashane2 said:
Threads like this baffle me. We lost our qb and rb, 2 rb's with game experience(jones/tenpenny), top 3 recievers, 3 ol's, a te, jalston fowler, and our main kick returner. We are basically having to start from scratch on offense and we barely lost our first big test. This chicken little mentality drives me nuts. I for one am extremely proud of this team. They obviously made some costly mistakes and have some kinks to work out, but they fought their butts off. They showed a lot of heart and determination and could have/should have beat a very good football team. I'm excited about the potential of this team becaused they showed that their willpower will keep us in every game. I'm extremely glad that they don't seem to wanna throw in the towel like some fans, otherwise they would have been blown out of the stadium saturday.
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100% agreement. We have no business thinking we're going to be a juggernaut team. We're NOT. That simple.
 
A

Alasippi

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Aug 31, 2007
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2
57
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PitMaster said:
"The alumni are starting to grumble, and I'm the one starting it." Coach Paul Bryant

There is a lesson here, and it goes back to what I was saying in the OP. Coach Bryant RECOGNIZED there was an issue, a problem - then he addressed it and fixed it.

Will Coach Saban do the same? Wh have certain issues that are starting to become trends rather than one year weaknesses.

Maybe this is starting to feel like 1968-1970 to me - the difference between 68-70 and 80-82 is that our Coach went about the business of fixing our problems in 1971, whereas 1982 marked then of a REAL ERA and a True Dynasty. IF Coach Saban can admit the issues and fix them, I believe we are off and running again to more glory.

But in an ever strengthening League and SEC West, to continue as a gold standard Program we HAVE to get recurrent issues with our QB Carousel, defensive backfield, kicking game, and ball security / turnover margin.
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I'll agree with this post. The "process" needs to be updated..
This post explained your opinion. The first one made you look, right or wrong, like a ticked off fan who wanted Saban to be fired. That, I couldn't accept. We're now friends as far as I'm concerned. :)
sip
 
B1GTide

B1GTide

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Apr 13, 2012
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Alasippi said:
100% agreement. We have no business thinking we're going to be a juggernaut team. We're NOT. That simple.
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We're fans. It is our job to provide "fanatical" support. We serve no other useful purpose to this team.

So, yes, we can and should feel that this team is going to be a juggernaut. Why not? What harm can come from it? Afraid to be let down? I would be more afraid that I might let down my team.

Maybe it isn't time to thump chests and talk about achievements, but it sure isn't time to fold tents and start planning for next season. If any team in America can win out and make a run at a championship, this team can. So why not think the best of them?
 
Padreruf

Padreruf

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If anyone really believes that this team can win the SEC then I want some of what you're drinking....This team has severe weaknesses that no amount of coaching can cover up. It's been 5 years since we were here...let's take our lumps, get better and enjoy the scenery. Reality is often a hard pill to swallow...

My signature applies more than ever...
 
tidefanbeezer

tidefanbeezer

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PitMaster said:
So the 2 of you think special teams are a strength?

Jones regressed after his sophmore year, and his fumble last year in Oxford probably cost us the game
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Since you apparently didn't read my post, I'll quote it here for you.

tidefanbeezer said:
I know that our special teams are not as good as they could be. But they are not as dire as you seem to think.
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I don't think they are a strength. I just don't think they are as dire as you make them out to be. JK appears to be coming around and Griffith, for all his troubles, played well against Ole Miss. Perhaps he is getting his confidence back.

I was simply calling you out for your incorrect assertion that we haven't had a good return man since Javy. Jones and Maze (thanks for the reminder 92!) were both very good return men. We've been without one of those three for all of 3 games. You seem to think that Brandon Brooks is returning kicks for us again.

I'm also curious to know about Jones regression after his sophomore year. His sophomore year (2012), he averaged 10.1 yards per punt return (23rd nationally, 5th in conference) and 26.6 yards per kick return, including 1 for a TD (didn't return enough kicks to qualify, but if he did, would have ranked 23rd nationally, 4th in conference).

His junior year (2013) he averaged 14.0 yards per punt return, including 2 for TDs (10th nationally, 1st in conference) and 28.7 yards per kick return, including 1 for a TD (7th nationally, 2nd in conference). This season also included the aforementioned VT game.

He did have a dip his senior year (2014) but he was also banged up most of the year (ankle and hamstring injuries). For what its worth, his back up (Cyrus Jones) stepped in and averaged 20.5 yards per punt return (4th nationally, 1st in conference).
 
B

bama579

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superbamashane2 said:
Threads like this baffle me. We lost our qb and rb, 2 rb's with game experience(jones/tenpenny), top 3 recievers, 3 ol's, a te, jalston fowler, and our main kick returner. We are basically having to start from scratch on offense and we barely lost our first big test. This chicken little mentality drives me nuts. I for one am extremely proud of this team. They obviously made some costly mistakes and have some kinks to work out, but they fought their butts off. They showed a lot of heart and determination and could have/should have beat a very good football team. I'm excited about the potential of this team becaused they showed that their willpower will keep us in every game. I'm extremely glad that they don't seem to wanna throw in the towel like some fans, otherwise they would have been blown out of the stadium saturday.
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Loads of good sense in this, sir. Thanks for it.
 
Bruce014

Bruce014

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Aug 29, 2012
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B1GTide said:
Add 2013 - if you beat Auburn and win the SECCG, you play FSU for the championship.
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I thought about adding 2013 and then decided not to, since it the SECCG was not a gimme. But yes, you're right. Same with 1972, I suppose, with Auburn's interminable luck.
 
Bruce014

Bruce014

1st Team
Aug 29, 2012
752
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Alabama
PitMaster said:
Tony Galbreath :mad:

AND the 1976 Basketball Team with Murray, Dunn, Douglas, King, Brown, etc would have won the NCAA in pretty much any other year imo.

There was a dadgum good reason to be talking hoops at that time, and I hope we reagin that type program under Coach Johnson
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Yes sir... grrrrr.

And, was an outstanding basketball team. But it was rather surreal to hear it discussed, at least among my circle of friends.
 
B

BadgerTidefan

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B1GTide said:
And if you are asking this question in a healthy way, I agree. By that I mean, if your son were on this team or coaching staff, how would you approach these upcoming games? Fans are fickle by nature. The same fan who cheers loudly on one play boos loudly on the next. They ride an emotional rollercoaster in every game, but without investing anything in the team itself - and I am not talking about $$$. Fans say that they "love" their team, but treat their team in ways that they would never treat a loved one. If Alabama does get a mud hole stomped in them by GA, how will you react? How will you bounce back? Because sooner or later the losses will come. That is when we are all tested.
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As far as I'm concerned, I certainly can accept a loss, especially by a clearly superior team. It comes down to the way we lose sometimes which very seldom is by a better team. I can understand frustration and even anger when we have 5 turnovers, get away from our strengths (running the ball), cannot seem to defend passes, and take a quarterback competition well into the season. I think a lot of the people on these threads just expect more from the team and the coaching staff. If Georgia stomps a mud hole in us, well we can quit talking about championships, that's for sure. We need to quit talking about that anyway, at least for now.
 
Snake 4 Bama

Snake 4 Bama

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Jan 1, 2013
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I think sometimes that the 5 stars do not bye into the coaching, because they think they are the best. They were in high school. Now that they got humbled a by this loss, maybe they will play better going forward and listen to the coaches. I really don't understand, though how they do not cover up the ball before contact. As for the quarterback position, I knew this season was going to be a 2-4 loss season, so let the true freshman start and play. Then next year you have a seasoned qb for at least two more years. I'm not a football guru, but I think starting over next year with another qb puts us in the same boat again. But then again I may be wrong. I still love the Tide and coach Saban and will support the team and him always.:BigA:
 
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