I actually feel better about this Alabama team after the game

GrayTide

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Spot on. No one is saying we are totally in the ditch, but to ignore obvious problems and put a smiley face on this game is delusional.
LIKE. I do not own Crimson eyeshades, never have, never will. In spite of what is perceived; I try to be realistic in my expectations for our team. If you want to blame someone, blame CNS. It is his fault that the SEC, especially the SEC West is so strong, he made every team get better. This is not his best team for all the reasons stated, but they will play hard and give their best which sometimes is not enough and you lose.
 

B1GTide

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I enjoy football more as I age. It works for me to remember each new season is a blank page, and all the expectations I have are meaningless - this team isn't about what I think they are capable of, or the hopes I have for them. It is about what they do on the field against the best competition in America. I'm looking forward to next week.
Great post!
 

B1GTide

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“I don’t know of anything good that comes from losing.” - Coach Bryant
He was wrong when he said it, and he is still wrong today. You learn far more from your failures than your successes. That is the plain truth.
 

CrimSonami

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You can look at the other games and raise your own concerns, but if we're talking about the Ole Miss game, I wonder how many people realize #5 is the best player in college football. You put him in the game, you have to account for him, and when you know Alabama is going to pass... bad things are going to happen. It's pick your poison at that point.

The key to dealing with #5 and the Ole Miss defense was a balanced offense, and Alabama was playing from behind the entire game.

The team has areas it needs to improve, and it should, but watching the game, almost all the issues I saw were a direct result of low probability events that occurred earlier. These things compounded upon themselves and were further compounded by a few low probability events later.

I think they will improve, in some ways I think they have, but:
"Florida, Alabama and Mississippi State are the only three teams returning fewer than three starting offensive linemen."

Alabama is nearly dead last in the SEC in returning starters.Odds are this team gets better as the season goes on
.
Nailed It!!! #5 should be a top 5 pick if not #1 overall. He's THAT GOOD!

As previously stated. Not happy with the loss but not pushing the panic button. We were in the same position this time last year relative to W/L record. Just so happens "Good Bo" had a Steven Garcia "OUT OF BODY" experience on that day.

RTR!!!
 
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nx4bama

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“I don’t know of anything good that comes from losing.” - Coach Bryant

It’s awfully important to win with humility. It’s also important to lose. I hate to lose worse than anyone, but if you never lose you won’t know how to act. If you lose with humility, then you can come back. - Coach Bryant

Losing doesn’t make me want to quit. It makes me want to fight that much harder. - Coach Bryant
 

CrmznApklps

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GREAT Post KRAZY3!

I, nor many others from what I've read, had considered how the offense changes when playing from behind. Coker's performance tells me that if we had started him, we most likely win that game. There were other issues of course (poor OL, DB and ST play) but we showed flashes of greatness to come back twice. I believe that we can gel behind Coker and he'll play better and we can get to the CFP once again.
 

Con

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GREAT Post KRAZY3!

I, nor many others from what I've read, had considered how the offense changes when playing from behind. Coker's performance tells me that if we had started him, we most likely win that game. There were other issues of course (poor OL, DB and ST play) but we showed flashes of greatness to come back twice. I believe that we can gel behind Coker and he'll play better and we can get to the CFP once again.
I believe this, but we couldn't tell this from the MTSU game. We gave Batemen a shot and it didn't pan out. Coker, to me anyway, siezed the job the other night. I felt like he looked a little like Tyler Watts running around Saturday. He has grit that I didn't think he had until the other night.
 

Bamaro

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I believe this, but we couldn't tell this from the MTSU game. We gave Batemen a shot and it didn't pan out. Coker, to me anyway, siezed the job the other night. I felt like he looked a little like Tyler Watts running around Saturday. He has grit that I didn't think he had until the other night.
Until he (or anyone else) can become a reasonable threat on longer throws its going to be a long season. Its going to rest primarily on the feet of Henry until then.
 

KrAzY3

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He was wrong when he said it, and he is still wrong today. You learn far more from your failures than your successes. That is the plain truth.
It's funny because I've seen another very different quote from him about losing. No, you never want to lose, but you can learn from both winning and losing. It sure didn't derail Ohio State last year.

Here's another reason why I don't.
Look, if Alabama can't clean things up in the place kicking game, they could drop another game or two, that's for sure. However, cherry picking stats after three games is pointless. You're just posting something someone sent out on social media, have you really researched Alabama special teams? You asked a pretty basic question so I'm assuming no.

I have, I have tracked special teams statistics, for years. If that keeps up you're darn right, Alabama has a problem. But there's no statistical trend to indicate it will, they had a couple bad games on special teams. But, right now it's kind of like saying because MTSU scored 70 points on two teams they're offense is going to average 70 points. That's not how that works. Small sample sizes tend to create aberrations, but the same guy has been here since 2008, he didn't suddenly forget everything he knows... for the record Alabama was #1 in net punting the past two seasons, with two different punters. I'd be willing to bet money they're not still 13th by the end of the season.
 

CrimsonForce

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It's funny because I've seen another very different quote from him about losing. No, you never want to lose, but you can learn from both winning and losing. It sure didn't derail Ohio State last year.


Look, if Alabama can't clean things up in the place kicking game, they could drop another game or two, that's for sure. However, cherry picking stats after three games is pointless. You're just posting something someone sent out on social media, have you really researched Alabama special teams? You asked a pretty basic question so I'm assuming no.

I have, I have tracked special teams statistics, for years. If that keeps up you're darn right, Alabama has a problem. But there's no statistical trend to indicate it will, they had a couple bad games on special teams. But, right now it's kind of like saying because MTSU scored 70 points on two teams they're offense is going to average 70 points. That's not how that works. Small sample sizes tend to create aberrations, but the same guy has been here since 2008, he didn't suddenly forget everything he knows... for the record Alabama was #1 in net punting the past two seasons, with two different punters. I'd be willing to bet money they're not still 13th by the end of the season.
It's not cherry picking anything. We are talking about this year. Do you understand that? Are we just not supposed to talk about anything that's happening THIS YEAR. OK, let's just wait till the season is over to discuss the season LOL. You keep on bringing up something that happened in 2008. That's irrelevant in regards to what is going on today. You are the one cherry picking stats when you only call out one ST stat from last year. What about the rest? LOL
 

KrAzY3

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You keep on bringing up something that happened in 2008
No, I don't...

Let's review. The same special teams coach has been at Alabama since 2008. Not to be confused with 2009, which I specified in another post, in another thread, which was in particular a stunning year on special teams.

You are the one cherry picking stats when you only call out one ST stat from last year. What about the rest? LOL
I already posted all of them on the forum... I said I researched the stats, I didn't just research the stats, I posted them. And I reiterated the statistical range for you. Alabama has played three teams I anticipate being in bowl games, Alabama has struggled on special teams early. I have every reason to believe that is largely an aberration. If you think Alabama will go the entire year with a great punter struggling, being unable to kick field goals, and fumbling on kick returns so be it (unfortunately I could see the missed field goal trend continuing, but Alabama has limited options), but it's never happened before and I don't think it will happen now. There's no point in discussing this further with you because I'm not sure you really care what I have to say either way.

I'll give you one thing, if for some reason that aberration doesn't correct itself, yes I'm guessing a change will be made.
 
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TRich3

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Hi all. Roll Tide! Haven't posted in awhile but signed up years ago as you can see by my name. I tried to change it but it wouldnt let me haha. anyways like the thread title suggests I too was pleased with what I saw last Saturday despite the loss. First of all, what an idiotic decision(in my honest opinion) to start Bateman over Coker. Nothing against Bateman but you just can't do that it in that game. it threw off the entire chemistry of the offense. Always been a Coker supporter though. Have no idea why he wasn't getting the majority of reps in camp. Kiffin has always been known to be a QB killer and he is trying to do the same with Coker.. still flabbergasted by the starting of Bateman which obviously Saban had to sign off on but I think Kiffin had a lot to do with it. Other than that and the obvious turnovers and fluke plays which im still trying to forget i thought we obviously outplayed them! So there is a lot to be happy about even though we didn't come out with the W

Also a few other comments about the team. The right side of our Oline more specifically RT has been getting beat all season. We have to get this sorted out before we play UGA.
And Tony Brown should be starting over Geno Smith at safety. Brown has been stellar on special teams this year he is just too talented to not have on the field even if he isn't the best cover guy which seems to be his problem since he isnt on the field, he should make for a good safety. Geno Smith has done nothing I always see him taking bad routes on running and passing plays.
 

PitMaster

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No, I don't...

Let's review. The same special teams coach has been at Alabama since 2008. Not to be confused with 2009, which I specified in another post, in another thread, which was in particular a stunning year on special teams.


I already posted all of them on the forum... I said I researched the stats, I didn't just research the stats, I posted them. And I reiterated the statistical range for you. Alabama has played three teams I anticipate being in bowl games, Alabama has struggled on special teams early. I have every reason to believe that is largely an aberration. If you think Alabama will go the entire year with a great punter struggling, being unable to kick field goals, and fumbling on kick returns so be it (unfortunately I could see the missed field goal trend continuing, but Alabama has limited options), but it's never happened before and I don't think it will happen now. There's no point in discussing this further with you because I'm not sure you really care what I have to say either way.

I'll give you one thing, if for some reason that aberration doesn't correct itself, yes I'm guessing a change will be made.
Can you repost or link the post with those stats?
 

KrAzY3

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Can you repost or link the post with those stats?
Since you seem to be getting the context mixed up, responded to a question about last years stats, which I did indeed already post last week, saying I already posted all of them (when asked why I only cited the punting statistic). I already took time out of my day to provide you with those links, showing the 2013 and 2014 data, I am not going to go beyond that for your sake.

Having said that, off the top of my head I can tell you more about one thing that Alabama fans tend to fixate in regards to special teams, which I also cited last week.

Shelley had an 80% success rate on field goals, in 2012 he didn't miss a single one. Despite his weak leg this got him a look from pro teams. Tiffin had a rate that was right around 75%, good enough to put him up for national awards. You're not going to uncover some terrible ST stats (generally speaking) the further back you go, but you are welcome to try...
 
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CrmznApklps

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Just taking a look back at this post by KRAZY3 and where we are now. I screenshot this post as a reply to folks around the job who were really down on the boys after this loss to Ole Miss. I think you hit the nail on the head Krazy3. I apologize for not "liking" or "thanking you" for the post, but in my mind it was a great one. Enough that I saw the jpg on my desktop and re-read it and was like yup... look at em now. After watching Derrick win the Heisman Saturday night, I'm excited about the playoffs! I LOVE our chances. Thanks again, brother!



There's no denying the fact that the loss hurts, it removes the margin of error for Alabama. However, the same basic thing happened last year and Alabama ended up with a #1 seed in the playoff, Ohio State played a softer schedule, had a far worse loss and ended up being champions. So, if Alabama can build off of where they are now, they can get better, and the path will likely be cleared. I was a very concerned about Ole Miss because of how good their team was, I never imagined it would take so many fluke plays for them to win the game.

I think a lot of people want to nitpick certain aspects of Alabama's play last game aside from the fluke plays. I'm not really sure I see that many bad things once you remove the crazy stuff. If you want me to pinpoint what I see as the biggest correctable mistake, it was to play Cooper Bateman if he wasn't going to be running the ball. Otherwise, you have a comedy of errors against a very good football team that lead to a 6 point loss. It could have been far worse.

When Jacob Coker entered the game Alabama was down 17-3 in the second quarter. He scored a touchdown, then Ole Miss, in one of the craziest plays we'll ever see scored another touchdown. At this point the fates had conspired against Alabama, Ole Miss was up 14 in the third quarter and Alabama simply couldn't play the type of game they wanted to play, and Ole Miss on the other hand had the luxury of playing exactly how they wanted to.

Then, Alabama failed on a fourth down conversion leading to three more Ole Miss points. At this point Alabama turned almost exclusively to the pass, leading to the defense being pushed back onto the field, and another three points. The route was on... supposedly. Yet, despite everything conspiring against Alabama, and some fans walking out, Alabama fought back but twice.

It's very important to try and look at how Alabama played without just looking at fluke plays and the results of playing from behind. Despite being forced to pass, and a couple ridiculous TDs from Ole Miss, with Jacob Coker in, Alabama outscored Ole Miss 34-26. If Alabama wasn't playing from behind that margin would have almost certainly been larger.

In the first half, Alabama held Ole Miss to around 100 yards and accounted for 200 yards of offense. This also means for the record that the full half Coker played results in 300 yards of offense to go along with 27 points, against a very good defense! Is that enough to be pleased with how good the team is, the fact that Alabama's offense actually did fairly well with Coker in there? No, it goes beyond that.

Turnovers:
Alabama gave up 5 turnovers, and Ole Miss gave up 0. We can stop here and acknowledge that if this stat was flipped Alabama probably blows out Ole Miss by four touchdowns or more. This is the worst margin in the Saban era and unlikely to repeat itself. But, there were also the fourth down conversions, which were in part forced due to Alabama's desperation. Alabama was 1-4 on those plays and Ole Miss was 1-2. Now, it's oversimplifying, but failing a fourth down conversion is a lot like a turnover, so let's assign -.5 to a failed one and +.5 to a successful one. That means Ole Miss ends up with a 0 on turnovers, and Alabama ends up with 6. If you told me Alabama was going to be that far behind in the turnover margin, against a team as good as Ole Miss, I'd have expected the biggest blowout loss of the Saban era, not a 6 point one.

Jacob Coker:
I believe he showed the most important quality a quarterback can have, leadership. Ole Miss knew he was going to throw, they knew they could bring pressure, they knew they could play the pass, and he still hung in there and gave better than he got. He ended up being the team's second leading rusher, and just consider this fact. The Alabama's offense was not given anything! Ole Miss had 0 turnovers. Everything Coker and the Alabama offense did, they did against adversity, generally with bad field position, against a tough defense, and with the odds stacked against them.

Defense:
It's hard to puzzle it out, but someone said if you remove all the crazy stuff Ole Miss basically scored 12 points. I think you take a look at the first half to get an idea of how good this defense is, 100 yards and every single score was off a turnover, and then the next TD was off of a fluke play. When the defense had anything to work with they did a fantastic job. I have no real concerns about this defense anymore, Alabama just doesn't turn over the ball a lot and chances are these guys will get the job done. But, once Ole Miss had a nice lead, they could play even more aggressively, they could just take shots knowing that they were just playing to pad their lead. They had no real need to sustain drives, or desperation to score points. Alabama's defense was put in a horrible situation and if anyone wants to look at those 5 turnovers and three failed fourth downs, to go along with playing from behind and judge the defense, I simply think they are being irrational.

Kicking Game:
Lost in the shuffle a bit was the suspension of the long snapper, which for a struggling punter and place kicker was really bad news. As it was, JK Scott had a solid if unspectacular outing, and Adam Griffith had by far his best game of the year. He was perfect on PATs, his kickoffs looked pretty good, he hit his first field goal (laces if I understand correctly, always a bad thing for a kicker to have to kick the laces), and he had a beautiful on-sided kick. There's plenty of reason to believe that the kicking game has turned the corner and while there might be issues going forward, we've probably seen the worse already.

This was a crazy game, and honestly if another crazy game happens Alabama could lose. But, there's usually not more than one of these a year, so logically we can just hope it's the last one. I do have areas of concern, but nothing like a loss to get a team to try and clean up their mistakes. But, in the big picture I have a lot of confidence. This defense is very good and if you give them half a chance I think they'll get the job done. This offense can move the ball against a very good defense, and I believe that if you give the offense a decent chance they'll get the job done. The special teams remains a concern, but if offensive skill players don't revert to butterfingers again we're unlikely to see a repeat of what happened.

Now, one might argue that the real fluke was not all the turnovers and crazy plays, but how Alabama's defense played in the first half, how Coker was able to lead Alabama back repeatedly (we know he has his shortcomings). Perhaps that's true, and if so we'll see, but something tells me somewhere in all the craziness we saw how great this team can be.

Edit:
I think a few valid points have been made, and I thought I might as well address them here.

Ole Miss:
So many crazy things happened, that I don't think you can just change one thing and have Alabama win. It was a series of events, and Ole Miss took advantage. To say Alabama shot themselves in the foot, or to call them fluke plays isn't intended to disparage Ole Miss. They won the game, they deserved to win the game. However, winning the game does not necessarily mean they have a better team.

Offensive Line:
The offensive line is basically the third most inexperienced OL in the SEC (overall Alabama is basically the third most inexperiened team). I expect them (like the Alabama secondary) to improve as the season progresses.

The Competition:
I believe Alabama has played three bowl teams so far. This skews the viewpoint of Alabama unfavorably. If you compare their statistics or performance, to teams playing far lesser competition it makes Alabama look worse than they actually are. For instance, Alabama's opponents won their other 6 games by a combined 378-55! Alabama has scored more points on all of their opponents than any other team did, and has held all three opponents to less points than any other team did. Had Alabama played a similar level of competition their numbers would be skewed far more favorably.

Special Teams:
Special teams is an issue which I believe can be broken down into two areas. Place kicking, which due to inherent limitations might be a lingering issue, and the rest of the special teams play which over the years has generally been very good. I expect to see Alabama have more solid play (I certainly don't expect to see two more fumbled kick returns in one game), but make no mistake, if the struggles continue it will cost Alabama. I just see no evidence that those three games are a stronger indication than general performance over the years.

Injuries:
This unfortunately will always be a factor. This team might be great, but a single injury can be the difference between a win and a loss (I still belive Vinny getting hurt before the 2013 Auburn game was the difference). So, just being a great team isn't enough, I think this team can be great but they need to stay healthy.

Hopefully those statements provide slightly better perspective on what else I had to say.
 

KrAzY3

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Just taking a look back at this post by KRAZY3 and where we are now. I screenshot this post as a reply to folks around the job who were really down on the boys after this loss to Ole Miss. I think you hit the nail on the head Krazy3. I apologize for not "liking" or "thanking you" for the post, but in my mind it was a great one. Enough that I saw the jpg on my desktop and re-read it and was like yup... look at em now. After watching Derrick win the Heisman Saturday night, I'm excited about the playoffs! I LOVE our chances. Thanks again, brother!
Thank you, I appreciate it. It's a lot easier to stay positive knowing that Nick Saban is the coach though. Also, I was a bit more argumentative in the topic than I needed to be, as usual.

That Epic battle between krazy and Crimsonforce....
Well, I think both of us calmed down a bit after this. There hasn't been a point of contention between us in a while. Having said that, it's good to have someone question your position every now and then. It's so easy to just think things are a certain way (like the Big 10 guy who came here and said the Big 10 and ACC are the best conferences) and if no one ever questions you on it, you might go right on thinking that.
 

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