The Four-Team Playoff And The Touchdown That Really Wasn't

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
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OK, let's get WAY ahead of ourselves here. Here's one of the big problems that I have with the whole playoff committee nonsense, and it would be so nice to prove the farcical nature this year. If you've not read the Sherlock Holmes mystery that comprises the voodoo means of how teams are selected, then do so. And I say this as an unapologetic advocate of a four team playoff using the old BCS system. That - in my view - would have been the best of all worlds - a valid regular season, valid polls, and nobody really getting 'hosed' because of the misfortune of being in the same division with the other best team or roaring through a tough conference undefeated but left out in the cold because they weren't ranked high enough in the pre-season.

Here's the criteria they have, one in particular that I have opposed from day one:

Principles. The committee will select the teams using a process that distinguishes among otherwise comparable teams by considering:
Conference championships won,
Strength of schedule,
Head-to-head competition,
Comparative outcomes of common opponents (without incenting margin of victory), and,
Other relevant factors such as key injuries that may have affected a team’s performance during the season or likely will affect its postseason performance.


I think this is absurd, and it no doubt should be called the 'if only Colt hadn't gotten hurt' rule. However, we now have a major problem - follow me in this.


Let's say Alabama runs the gauntlet the rest of the way. It could be ANY team, but let's say it's current one-loss Alabama. Let's further say Ole Miss runs the table. I know I sound drunk but just follow me. We wind up at the end of the season with the usual suspects near the top plus Ole Miss. Let's say Ohio State and Michigan St both have a loss, UCLA is unbeaten, Oklahoma is unbeaten, it's a top heavy mess.


Ole Miss wins the SEC by knocking off Georgia. Oh, but the SEC comes out acknowledging that ONE TOUCHDOWN should not have counted in the Ole Miss-Alabama game (which may well happen folks). You now have a problem - the wrong team won the game. The wrong team played for the SEC title, the wrong team won the Western division, and the wrong team is the conference champion.

Now I know you're all thinking the exact same thing I'm thinking - this is ridiculous because (let's say it together) - 'you cannot ASSUME that everything that happens after the bad call happens and Alabama wins.' And you're right. But here's the problem - you also cannot ASSUME that because Player X was injured that it was the difference in the game, either; Ohio State proved that conclusively last year. Yet we're being told to ASSUME one thing and given an open-ended criteria of things we might include. What if several committee members decided to conclude that the wrong team won the SEC?

This, of course, is not going to happen, nor should it. But the thing is the committee makes this thing possible whereas the other ranking system made it IMPOSSIBLE to rig this way.

Let me cover the obvious points before I get blasted left and right. Ole Miss won the game. Ole Miss SHOULD have and DESERVED to win the game regardless of that one play, okay? We have problems to address and fix and this must be done quickly - as in right now. The problems go beyond 'we turned it over five times' but they're not insurmountable obstacles, either.

I'm just pointing out that it is incredibly inconsistent to have to consider injuries on one hand but NOT other 'relevant factors' like 'officials hosing teams with their ineptitude.' I would be fine if this subjective criterion was removed completely as it should be. Most of you who have known me over the last seven years of constant posting here would vouch for me being reasonable and willing to buck the trends if necessary, so don't consider this a conspiracy-laden leap into nonsense or even a whine about how 'we might get messed over.' We DO have business to take care of, and Ole Miss is not getting through the year unscathed, either. And I'm not longing for the 'bad old days' of the BCS, either, a system I said was neither as good as some argue nor as bad as the pilers on alleged.

I'm simply making the point that this wax nose can stretch quite far.
 

Bama Czar

1st Team
Sep 1, 2010
388
37
52
Woodstock, GA
OK, let's get WAY ahead of ourselves here. Here's one of the big problems that I have with the whole playoff committee nonsense, and it would be so nice to prove the farcical nature this year. If you've not read the Sherlock Holmes mystery that comprises the voodoo means of how teams are selected, then do so. And I say this as an unapologetic advocate of a four team playoff using the old BCS system. That - in my view - would have been the best of all worlds - a valid regular season, valid polls, and nobody really getting 'hosed' because of the misfortune of being in the same division with the other best team or roaring through a tough conference undefeated but left out in the cold because they weren't ranked high enough in the pre-season.

Here's the criteria they have, one in particular that I have opposed from day one:

Principles. The committee will select the teams using a process that distinguishes among otherwise comparable teams by considering:
Conference championships won,
Strength of schedule,
Head-to-head competition,
Comparative outcomes of common opponents (without incenting margin of victory), and,
Other relevant factors such as key injuries that may have affected a team’s performance during the season or likely will affect its postseason performance.


I think this is absurd, and it no doubt should be called the 'if only Colt hadn't gotten hurt' rule. However, we now have a major problem - follow me in this.


Let's say Alabama runs the gauntlet the rest of the way. It could be ANY team, but let's say it's current one-loss Alabama. Let's further say Ole Miss runs the table. I know I sound drunk but just follow me. We wind up at the end of the season with the usual suspects near the top plus Ole Miss. Let's say Ohio State and Michigan St both have a loss, UCLA is unbeaten, Oklahoma is unbeaten, it's a top heavy mess.


Ole Miss wins the SEC by knocking off Georgia. Oh, but the SEC comes out acknowledging that ONE TOUCHDOWN should not have counted in the Ole Miss-Alabama game (which may well happen folks). You now have a problem - the wrong team won the game. The wrong team played for the SEC title, the wrong team won the Western division, and the wrong team is the conference champion.

Now I know you're all thinking the exact same thing I'm thinking - this is ridiculous because (let's say it together) - 'you cannot ASSUME that everything that happens after the bad call happens and Alabama wins.' And you're right. But here's the problem - you also cannot ASSUME that because Player X was injured that it was the difference in the game, either; Ohio State proved that conclusively last year. Yet we're being told to ASSUME one thing and given an open-ended criteria of things we might include. What if several committee members decided to conclude that the wrong team won the SEC?

This, of course, is not going to happen, nor should it. But the thing is the committee makes this thing possible whereas the other ranking system made it IMPOSSIBLE to rig this way.

Let me cover the obvious points before I get blasted left and right. Ole Miss won the game. Ole Miss SHOULD have and DESERVED to win the game regardless of that one play, okay? We have problems to address and fix and this must be done quickly - as in right now. The problems go beyond 'we turned it over five times' but they're not insurmountable obstacles, either.

I'm just pointing out that it is incredibly inconsistent to have to consider injuries on one hand but NOT other 'relevant factors' like 'officials hosing teams with their ineptitude.' I would be fine if this subjective criterion was removed completely as it should be. Most of you who have known me over the last seven years of constant posting here would vouch for me being reasonable and willing to buck the trends if necessary, so don't consider this a conspiracy-laden leap into nonsense or even a whine about how 'we might get messed over.' We DO have business to take care of, and Ole Miss is not getting through the year unscathed, either. And I'm not longing for the 'bad old days' of the BCS, either, a system I said was neither as good as some argue nor as bad as the pilers on alleged.

I'm simply making the point that this wax nose can stretch quite far.
I couldn't agree more. I HATE the way the playoff teams are determined. Completely designed with an agenda in mind, & the agenda certainly is NOT simply getting the 4 best teams to play. Yes, the argument you make regarding the TD by Ole Miss is as sound as a player's injury. IMO, neither should be included in the decision....
 

BamaMark.

1st Team
Jun 21, 2012
535
183
62
OK, let's get WAY ahead of ourselves here. Here's one of the big problems that I have with the whole playoff committee nonsense, and it would be so nice to prove the farcical nature this year. If you've not read the Sherlock Holmes mystery that comprises the voodoo means of how teams are selected, then do so. And I say this as an unapologetic advocate of a four team playoff using the old BCS system. That - in my view - would have been the best of all worlds - a valid regular season, valid polls, and nobody really getting 'hosed' because of the misfortune of being in the same division with the other best team or roaring through a tough conference undefeated but left out in the cold because they weren't ranked high enough in the pre-season.

Here's the criteria they have, one in particular that I have opposed from day one:

Principles. The committee will select the teams using a process that distinguishes among otherwise comparable teams by considering:
Conference championships won,
Strength of schedule,
Head-to-head competition,
Comparative outcomes of common opponents (without incenting margin of victory), and,
Other relevant factors such as key injuries that may have affected a team’s performance during the season or likely will affect its postseason performance.


I think this is absurd, and it no doubt should be called the 'if only Colt hadn't gotten hurt' rule. However, we now have a major problem - follow me in this.


Let's say Alabama runs the gauntlet the rest of the way. It could be ANY team, but let's say it's current one-loss Alabama. Let's further say Ole Miss runs the table. I know I sound drunk but just follow me. We wind up at the end of the season with the usual suspects near the top plus Ole Miss. Let's say Ohio State and Michigan St both have a loss, UCLA is unbeaten, Oklahoma is unbeaten, it's a top heavy mess.


Ole Miss wins the SEC by knocking off Georgia. Oh, but the SEC comes out acknowledging that ONE TOUCHDOWN should not have counted in the Ole Miss-Alabama game (which may well happen folks). You now have a problem - the wrong team won the game. The wrong team played for the SEC title, the wrong team won the Western division, and the wrong team is the conference champion.

Now I know you're all thinking the exact same thing I'm thinking - this is ridiculous because (let's say it together) - 'you cannot ASSUME that everything that happens after the bad call happens and Alabama wins.' And you're right. But here's the problem - you also cannot ASSUME that because Player X was injured that it was the difference in the game, either; Ohio State proved that conclusively last year. Yet we're being told to ASSUME one thing and given an open-ended criteria of things we might include. What if several committee members decided to conclude that the wrong team won the SEC?

This, of course, is not going to happen, nor should it. But the thing is the committee makes this thing possible whereas the other ranking system made it IMPOSSIBLE to rig this way.

Let me cover the obvious points before I get blasted left and right. Ole Miss won the game. Ole Miss SHOULD have and DESERVED to win the game regardless of that one play, okay? We have problems to address and fix and this must be done quickly - as in right now. The problems go beyond 'we turned it over five times' but they're not insurmountable obstacles, either.

I'm just pointing out that it is incredibly inconsistent to have to consider injuries on one hand but NOT other 'relevant factors' like 'officials hosing teams with their ineptitude.' I would be fine if this subjective criterion was removed completely as it should be. Most of you who have known me over the last seven years of constant posting here would vouch for me being reasonable and willing to buck the trends if necessary, so don't consider this a conspiracy-laden leap into nonsense or even a whine about how 'we might get messed over.' We DO have business to take care of, and Ole Miss is not getting through the year unscathed, either. And I'm not longing for the 'bad old days' of the BCS, either, a system I said was neither as good as some argue nor as bad as the pilers on alleged.

I'm simply making the point that this wax nose can stretch quite far.

I'm of the opinion that these things have a way of working themselves out over the course of a 12-13 game season. Every team in the country will probably go through a situation where a bad call may have cost them a game. Not to discount your argument, but we have bigger problems than this to solve.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
10,617
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You know I don't like the playoff, but they should have used the BCS selection process. It wasn't perfect, but this committee thing, it honestly scares me. They can do what ever the heck they want.
 

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
18,829
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The committee's agenda is to put the SEC champion, BIG10 champion, PAC 12 champion and the ACC or Big 12 champion into the playoffs. Either the ACC champion or Big 12 champion is going to be left out every year. The other agenda item is to insure two teams from the same conference do not get into the playoffs.
 
Last edited:

alwayshavebeen

All-SEC
Sep 22, 2013
1,213
110
82
North Carolina
The committee's agenda is to put the SEC champion, BIG10 champion, PAC 12 champion and the ACC or Big 12 champion into the playoffs. Either the ACC champion or Big 12 champion is going to be left out every year. The other agenda item is to insure two teams from the same conference do not get into the playoffs.
You may be right, but I still wonder about a 2 loss SEC Champ that's going to happen some time. I think their real plan is to have all 5 power conference champs and that would likely mandate an 8 team playoff with 3 at-larges. In the meantime, like some others, I would greatly prefer the BCS process to select the four teams.
 

gtowntide

All-American
Mar 1, 2011
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Memphis,TN.
The committee's agenda is to put the SEC champion, BIG10 champion, PAC 12 champion and the ACC or Big 12 champion into the playoffs. Either the ACC champion or Big 12 champion is going to be left out every year. The other agenda item is to insure two teams from the same conference do not get into the playoffs.
I would be willing to bet that TCU and Baylor will get some special love from the committee this year. If both these teams go undefeated or have one loss, it would not surprise me for both to get in.
 

Matt0424

All-American
Jan 16, 2010
3,909
0
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Hoover, Al
I love having a playoff. One of my first posts here back 6 years ago or so was a plan I had involving Super Conferences and playoffs (I didn't know my idea would be stolen off the board!!!), and I think it's the right way to go.

However, I am in complete agreement that the selection committee being the lone selector of teams is too mired by personal agenda. I think they did a good job last year, but they had to in year one.

I always assumed in going to a playoff that they'd just use the BCS formula. I'd even be fine if the updated formula consisted of computer rankings (1/3), selection committee poll (1/3), and some sort of aggregated win/loss/SOS rating (1/3)...but it becomes too subjective this way.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 

teamplayer

Hall of Fame
Jul 31, 2001
7,585
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cullman, al, usa
The committee's agenda is to put the SEC champion, BIG10 champion, PAC 12 champion and the ACC or Big 12 champion into the playoffs. Either the ACC champion or Big 12 champion is going to be left out every year. The other agenda item is to insure two teams from the same conference do not get into the playoffs.
I think this is clearly their goal. If the BCS poll worked picking two teams most of the time, why in the world did they not just expand that formula to four? Well, the answer lies in the post above, and we've all known it as soon as they announced the stupid selection process.
 

Rush

All-American
Jul 5, 2011
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Some great posts in this thread...

As much as people often point to our having had gotten into the Natty after having had lost to LSWho - only to go on and beat them like a drum in the game - as having had been pivotal in moving to a playoff, I heard earlier this year - perhaps on Ryan Fowler's show, when he was interviewing an insider who would have had this sort of knowledge - that apparently, when our annihilation of Notre Dame became apparent, even before the game was over, Blackberries were buzzing amongst the big dawgs at the NCAA etc. to get to work on setting up a playoff...


Kinda nice to know that we have that effect on people...
 

TideEngineer08

TideFans Legend
Jun 9, 2009
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We went from a system of mostly objectivity and very little bias to a system of great subjectivity and bias.

Which system did the SEC dominate?

And that's why they did what they did. Don't get me wrong; if the Big Ten had won 7 straight NCs and Michigan played OSU for the NC I'm sure the same stink would have been raised and probably would've been led by the SEC.

Our society likes to talk about fairness but that's not what we are really interested in when we fairly come out on the losing end too many times. So we rig systems and that's what has happened with the playoff. The committee is a farce but we're headed to 8 teams and conference champ auto bids anyway.
 

selmaborntidefan

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And that's why they did what they did. Don't get me wrong; if the Big Ten had won 7 straight NCs and Michigan played OSU for the NC I'm sure the same stink would have been raised and probably would've been led by the SEC.
I'm sure you're aware that the SEC was leading the nation to a playoff before the thing ever got off the ground. The Big Ten and Pac 10 opposed it - just like they opposed the Bowl Coalition and Bowl Alliance that preceded the BCS, primarily in their overhyped Rose Bowl mentality.
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
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Some great posts in this thread...

As much as people often point to our having had gotten into the Natty after having had lost to LSWho - only to go on and beat them like a drum in the game - as having had been pivotal in moving to a playoff, I heard earlier this year - perhaps on Ryan Fowler's show, when he was interviewing an insider who would have had this sort of knowledge - that apparently, when our annihilation of Notre Dame became apparent, even before the game was over, Blackberries were buzzing amongst the big dawgs at the NCAA etc. to get to work on setting up a playoff...
I won't deny you might have heard that, but I will say that if Fowler or anyone else claims that, he's an idiot who doesn't even watch the news.


June 29, 2012

College football will finally have a playoff. Come 2014, the BCS is dead.

A committee of university presidents on Tuesday approved the BCS commissioners' plan for a four-team playoff to start in two years.



The thing you're saying (and I don't doubt YOUR accuracy) is impossible to be true; the four-team playoff was approved over two months before we blew out Michigan, much less lined up against Notre Dame.
 

BamaHoosier

All-American
Jan 17, 2011
3,614
620
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Noblesville Indiana
I love having a playoff. One of my first posts here back 6 years ago or so was a plan I had involving Super Conferences and playoffs (I didn't know my idea would be stolen off the board!!!), and I think it's the right way to go.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Come on now, don't be silly. We all know the playoffs weren't your idea. Haven't you seen the commercials? It was Larry the Dr Pepper Guy's idea. (Blue font)

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

Rush

All-American
Jul 5, 2011
3,190
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Ontario, Canada
I won't deny you might have heard that, but I will say that if Fowler or anyone else claims that, he's an idiot who doesn't even watch the news.


June 29, 2012

College football will finally have a playoff. Come 2014, the BCS is dead.

A committee of university presidents on Tuesday approved the BCS commissioners' plan for a four-team playoff to start in two years.



The thing you're saying (and I don't doubt YOUR accuracy) is impossible to be true; the four-team playoff was approved over two months before we blew out Michigan, much less lined up against Notre Dame.

Perhaps I should've said "accelerate the process to establish a playoff"...
 

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
18,829
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Greenbow, Alabama
When it comes time to renew the playoff contract it will expand to 8 teams. Even then the BCS formula would be a better formula to use than a committee.
I suspect the expansion to 8 teams may happen before the current contract expiration which IIRC is 12 years.
 

WiliestBuckeye

BamaNation Citizen
Sep 13, 2015
35
0
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We have only seen this committee in action for one year, and I think they did a pretty good job of picking the 4 teams last year. Sometimes a little subjectivity is a good thing. Some of those parameters are no doubt to give them a little leeway to pick the best teams available, because sometimes the computers do not get it right. I think everybody needs to relax a bit and let things play out a little more before rushing to crucify them on things that may never happen.
 

TideEngineer08

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I'm sure you're aware that the SEC was leading the nation to a playoff before the thing ever got off the ground. The Big Ten and Pac 10 opposed it - just like they opposed the Bowl Coalition and Bowl Alliance that preceded the BCS, primarily in their overhyped Rose Bowl mentality.
Yes I am aware. I almost mentioned it. I was really trying to be diplomatic, but it's true the Big Ten and Pac 12 have always had their heels dug in.
 

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