The loss to Ole Miss this week and the response to it has gotten me thinking what the ideal mix of wins and losses is for a fan base. You might say that obviously you want your team to win all of their games. Well, maybe. But it is human nature to acclimate to the situation in which one finds oneself. If your team wins all or almost all of their games, each victory becomes less sweet, since you become habituated to winning – it becomes the norm. And when your team loses (which will happen eventually) losing hurts a lot. So you reach a position where most wins no longer really satisfy and each loss is really painful. Conversely, if you are a fan of a losing team, the wins can be really special – recall Boston College’s win over USC last year. But too many losses will beat you down to the point where you just do not care any more. Any Vandy fans out there? So… is there an ideal mix between the two extremes, and if so, what is it? I personally think maybe averaging 9-3 or so, with a run at a NC every third or fourth year or so might be the ideal mix.
What's the best mix in wins and losses?
- Thread starter TRU
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The one thing I will say that hurts so much when it's ONE loss - especially close ones (3 in OT to LSU, 4 to ATM) are you say to yourself 'if only' and can fill in those blanks with so many things that it drives you batty.
On the other hand - I'd prefer two one-loss seasons and a title every third year under those circumstances, but personally I don't really want the SEC title and then LOSE the national title, either. This might be what you're sorta saying here.
There are too many variables in this equation.
How do the losses happen?
What's the schedule like?
Does the team suffer injuries?
How do the losses happen?
What's the schedule like?
Does the team suffer injuries?
I'd prefer the team to be in the hunt every year, and I don't tend to go overboard on the losses because that just comes with the territory. But, your point is valid, if you don't want fans to get spoiled, entitled, and behave irrationally, you need more time spent out of the hunt completely so they can appreciate it, with better context when they are in the midst of a run.
I'm working on compiling some stats, and just to give a peak, during Saban's tenure, Alabama has 20 less losses, 20! than Auburn has had. I mean you know how absolutely massive that is? That's like two less seasons full of nothing but losses. You'd think fans forget that sometimes.
I'm working on compiling some stats, and just to give a peak, during Saban's tenure, Alabama has 20 less losses, 20! than Auburn has had. I mean you know how absolutely massive that is? That's like two less seasons full of nothing but losses. You'd think fans forget that sometimes.
We obviously want to win them all, but our tradition built us that way. It's hard to say what would be acceptable w/l's every year. I personally want to be in the hunt or at least the conversation every year. I'm not a championship or bust kind of fan, but finishing outside the top ten is hard for me to swallow. The type of loss effects me more. I can deal with losing to a better team. I have a hard time when our own mistakes cost us games we should have one. Since 2008, we've only been flat out beat once (USCe '10 and not counting consolation games). I can handle 3 losses in a down/rebuilding year alot better than I can 1 loss when we had the team to run the table.
I think it depends on the individual team.
For example, I have been wondering recently if it would be good for this years fairly young team to lose 2 or 3 games. That might serve to motivate them to get back on top. I think a season like this every 4-5 years might be healthy, in a sense, for refocusing a program. I don't think I'd say the same for the 2011/2012 teams. I likely would have had a higher standard for those teams, given the mix of talent and experience.
I will say that I am probably being influenced by a couple of articles on the 2007 team and how the loss to ULM was a turning point for the program. But its an intriguing to think about a bad season (if you think 2-3 losses is a bad season!) serving as a reality check to motivate a team/program.
For example, I have been wondering recently if it would be good for this years fairly young team to lose 2 or 3 games. That might serve to motivate them to get back on top. I think a season like this every 4-5 years might be healthy, in a sense, for refocusing a program. I don't think I'd say the same for the 2011/2012 teams. I likely would have had a higher standard for those teams, given the mix of talent and experience.
I will say that I am probably being influenced by a couple of articles on the 2007 team and how the loss to ULM was a turning point for the program. But its an intriguing to think about a bad season (if you think 2-3 losses is a bad season!) serving as a reality check to motivate a team/program.
I don't think it falls easily into a specific number. If good things come from the loss, it isn't so bad, but takes time to see the good return. Examples: losing to La-Monroe in Saban's first year hurt, but helped clear out a lot of clutter and got a lot of meddling out of the way. Also, the loss to UF in the '08 SECCG made us a better team the next year.
Also it depends on who the loss is to. Living in Tennessee, surrounded by Vol fans, winning the TSIO is more important to me as a fan, although I recognize it's slightly less important (strategically speaking) than losing to a divisional opponent. If I was surrounded by Auburn fans (as most of you are who live in state), that game would be of utmost importance. I guess that all depends on the "in your face" sore winners you're surrounded by.
Also it depends on who the loss is to. Living in Tennessee, surrounded by Vol fans, winning the TSIO is more important to me as a fan, although I recognize it's slightly less important (strategically speaking) than losing to a divisional opponent. If I was surrounded by Auburn fans (as most of you are who live in state), that game would be of utmost importance. I guess that all depends on the "in your face" sore winners you're surrounded by.
Most fans never learn to accept losing with grace. We trust our teams to find a way and are disappointed when they don't or can't, even when we know that they are outmatched. We see penalties committed by the other team on every play, and can't see that the same penalties are being committed by ours. We act crazy, and the more success that our team has the crazier it gets.
Losing more won't help, but it would ramp down the crazy a little bit (until you lose too much, then the crazy ramps up in a more destructive way).
What really hurt Alabama fans was the winning of 3 national championships in 4 years. You lost games in two of those years - crushing losses, both of them. After those losses you thought that your title shot was over. But you still found magical ways to make it to the championship game, allowing for redemption. And in the one season in which you went undefeated, your magic happened during a few of the games. In all three seasons you needed "help" from the football gods and you got that help. But somehow the fans came to believe, as fans will, that it was your "greatness" alone that won you those rings. It wasn't, and it never is.
When it happens very infrequently we recognize the magic. When it happens like it did for you guys or for Miami in their huge run, you forget what it took. You lose your humility, and with that comes disappointment in wins when the margin of victory falls short of expectations, much less losses.
But would you really trade those magical seasons for anything? I don't know if Alabama will win another championship with Saban. No one can predict that kind of thing. But I know that expecting your team to win every game because you are "better" is a fools game. In sports, just like in life, stuff happens.
ETA - the only way to avoid disappointment in your team is to eliminate all expectations. I am not sure that Alabama (or OSU) fans are capable of that.
Losing more won't help, but it would ramp down the crazy a little bit (until you lose too much, then the crazy ramps up in a more destructive way).
What really hurt Alabama fans was the winning of 3 national championships in 4 years. You lost games in two of those years - crushing losses, both of them. After those losses you thought that your title shot was over. But you still found magical ways to make it to the championship game, allowing for redemption. And in the one season in which you went undefeated, your magic happened during a few of the games. In all three seasons you needed "help" from the football gods and you got that help. But somehow the fans came to believe, as fans will, that it was your "greatness" alone that won you those rings. It wasn't, and it never is.
When it happens very infrequently we recognize the magic. When it happens like it did for you guys or for Miami in their huge run, you forget what it took. You lose your humility, and with that comes disappointment in wins when the margin of victory falls short of expectations, much less losses.
But would you really trade those magical seasons for anything? I don't know if Alabama will win another championship with Saban. No one can predict that kind of thing. But I know that expecting your team to win every game because you are "better" is a fools game. In sports, just like in life, stuff happens.
ETA - the only way to avoid disappointment in your team is to eliminate all expectations. I am not sure that Alabama (or OSU) fans are capable of that.
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I agree 100% with this. I also think this will depend a lot on a fans personality. I want to be in the hunt each and every year. I know we can't win them all but I want to be in the position to win them all. I want to be able to say "if only we had or hadn't ......"
ps can't wait to see those stats you are compiling.
I agree. For SOME of our fan base, Alabama really needs to go 0-12. People WHINE when the score is 10-0 Bama in the second quarter against SEC teams because they think we should be winning by more. But then when we do score 2 more touchdowns, they leave because the game is boring. Spoiled (probably in more areas than just football). Maybe an 0-12 season will cause them to not buy tickets and just stay home. Then, of course, we have our other crazies: cry when we lose, threaten the qb/kicker/towel boy, spend all of sunday school arguing about the loss, cuss at other fans when we win, etc. I'm not hoping for an 0-12 season at all though; don't get me wrong. When we lose and someone says, "Oh well, you can't win em all," I always respond, "Why not." Either way, I think we've had a healthy dose of losses for this year, especially considering how the last 2 seasons have ended. Most teams don't win a national title every few years, but they also don't consistently have to pay the ticket prices we do. We definitely are in a position to be disappointed in a 9-3 season. If all else, we can be disappointed because we know how talented the team is. Underachieving should never be acceptable anywhere in life. Yes, it will happen to all of us every now and then, but that doesn't mean we have to approve or accept it.
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I just want to be in the hunt every year. And while that in itself is a tall order, I do believe it is possible with the right set up of coaching, talent, recruiting, facilities, etc. which Alabama has. Actually winning every game and several titles in a row is impossible. It's never been done, and it never will be. So I expect losses. I don't have lowered expectations, but I still feel healthy about it because I understand perfection is not attainable and as you say, even in the rare seasons when you go undefeated, you need help.
What's the best mix? I'd say averaging 10 wins per year, with a title run every few years or so is really good. Alabama has been above that since 2008. We've been spoiled. Well, I haven't.. but most of us have. I still remember the DuBose and Shula eras. That was my late childhood, so its ingrained into my mind. For the younger fans, who have come of age under Nick Saban, I'm afraid they are too spoiled.
The 80's and the 2000's taught me to lose with grace and dignity. If this team loses 3, so be it. Life will continue and maybe the team will be motivated to do better next year. We have experienced 3 titles in a 4 year span. That's something that is rare and may never happen again to any team. RTR!
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