Official Post-Game Thread - Bama vs. Hogs...

BamaGreek · Oct 11, 2015

B1GTide said:
I don't think that you are an Eeyore, but you got down on Coker in the game thread and then followed it up in the post game thread by saying that, even in hindsight, you would have yanked Coker. Not sure how you could come to that conclusion given how well he played after that second pick.

We all make mistakes - your mistake was in giving up on Coker during the game. Coker redeems himself and that still isn't good enough for you? Do you think that someone on that bench would have done better than 14 of 17 after that point?

I totally agree with this. Coker is the QB for Alabama period. Coker is going to have his bad moments as well as really good moments. Seems pretty obvious to me having watched every minute of every game that Coker has proven he's the leader of the offense and the rest of the team rallies around him. The truth is we have yet to lose any game that he started. He starts that Ole Miss game we are probably 6-0 right now. I for one am pulling for Coker and hope he leads us to a SEC West Division Championship; SEC Championship and into the 4 team playoff. I think he can.

pyro · Oct 11, 2015

I don't know, maybe. I can say I wouldn't mind to see a Moris be given the opportunity to take a few snaps...

rgw · Oct 11, 2015

pyro said:
I don't know, maybe. I can say I wouldn't mind to see a Moris be given the opportunity to take a few snaps...

We're in too deep for experimentation with other options. The wagon is hitched to Coker and he's just gotta improve along with the rest of the offense.

81usaf92 · Oct 11, 2015

pyro said:
I don't know, maybe. I can say I wouldn't mind to see a Moris be given the opportunity to take a few snaps...

Again the question is "why?" And what is the potential upside to that in a 7-3 game when Morris is way less mobile and has less of an arm and the oline playing very inconsistent with a defense loading the box. If you offer good reasoning I will debate it reasonably and significantly change that post. But you just can't have the " put in Drew Henson" debate just because Coker is struggling , or in Henson's case Tom Brady, without sound defense to your argument

TiderJack · Oct 11, 2015

rgw said:
We're in too deep for experimentation with other options. The wagon is hitched to Coker and he's just gotta improve along with the rest of the offense.

Agreed and we all need to get behind him and not call for the hook when he has a bad half or throws an interception. He has shown determination and good leadership and we can win a championship with him,

dvldog · Oct 11, 2015

They should have put Drew Henson in cause Brady has NFL HoF potential. [emoji6]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TideFan in AU · Oct 11, 2015

rgw said:
We're in too deep for experimentation with other options. The wagon is hitched to Coker and he's just gotta improve along with the rest of the offense.

If Morris was the better option, he'd be on the field. He has never started a CFB game. To ask him to come in cold off the bench in a 7 - 3 game where we are dominating every statistic except the score would just be dumb. I'm sorry to say it like that, but it is. I feel like the biggest mistake made this season was the Bateman experiment against Ole Miss. I know the most popular guy on the team is often the backup QB when teams are struggling, but we can't just empty the bench trying different guys.

TideFan in AU · Oct 11, 2015

dvldog said:
They should have put Drew Henson in cause Brady has NFL HoF potential. [emoji6]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe we can trade AU for Sean White. I hear he has Brady-like qualities!

day-day · Oct 11, 2015

Sims came much closer to getting the hook in the AU game last year.

I ran the scenario of putting Bateman in for Coker and decided it was a bad idea. I waited for Coach Saban to call for my advise but my phone must have been out of service at my son's house out in the boonies.

rgw · Oct 11, 2015

By the way the "Bateman experiment" was supposedly due to Coker having flu-like symptoms which restricted the number of snaps he had during preparation for Ole Miss. Honestly, I kind of blame the staff for that one because if they would have gotten behind Coker earlier in Fall Camp and given him the majority of the starter snaps instead of rotating a bunch of guys then they might have felt comfortable with his knowledge of the offense to come in cold and execute. Especially since he came in cold anyway, down in the game, and played admirably well despite the adversity.

I don't think this QB position was handled well at all in camp and I think the comfort level for Coker was negatively effected by it. Did they really think Bateman was a guy? Or that Morris deserved some looks? Seriously, just pick the guy and groom him...the QB battle was just a bit too open and shoulda been narrowed down to a couple guys early and went with Coker 100% after Wisconsin.

81usaf92 · Oct 11, 2015

rgw said:
By the way the "Bateman experiment" was supposedly due to Coker having flu-like symptoms which restricted the number of snaps he had during preparation for Ole Miss. Honestly, I kind of blame the staff for that one because if they would have gotten behind Coker earlier in Fall Camp and given him the majority of the starter snaps instead of rotating a bunch of guys then they might have felt comfortable with his knowledge of the offense to come in cold and execute. Especially since he came in cold anyway, down in the game, and played admirably well despite the adversity.

I don't think this QB position was handled well at all in camp and I think the comfort level for Coker was negatively effected by it. Did they really think Bateman was a guy? Or that Morris deserved some looks? Seriously, just pick the guy and groom him...the QB battle was just a bit too open and shoulda been narrowed down to a couple guys early and went with Coker 100% after Wisconsin.

As jessn posted, the idea was probably more of a Coker is 1a and Cornwell was 1b, and then Cornwell did what he did or regressed in fall camp and created dilemma. I feel that most rumors that went around were untrue, but the one about clk wanting Coker and CNS wanting Bateman seems to have some weight. It makes some since with clk's love in the big play and CNS's love for a game manger but it's anybody's guess why Bateman started because there were also rumors Coker missing curfew as well. So it's anybody's guess in what happened in camp

BamaInBham · Oct 11, 2015

rgw said:
By the way the "Bateman experiment" was supposedly due to Coker having flu-like symptoms which restricted the number of snaps he had during preparation for Ole Miss. Honestly, I kind of blame the staff for that one because if they would have gotten behind Coker earlier in Fall Camp and given him the majority of the starter snaps instead of rotating a bunch of guys then they might have felt comfortable with his knowledge of the offense to come in cold and execute. Especially since he came in cold anyway, down in the game, and played admirably well despite the adversity.

I don't think this QB position was handled well at all in camp and I think the comfort level for Coker was negatively effected by it. Did they really think Bateman was a guy? Or that Morris deserved some looks? Seriously, just pick the guy and groom him...the QB battle was just a bit too open and shoulda been narrowed down to a couple guys early and went with Coker 100% after Wisconsin.

It worked with AJ/Simms and Sims/Coker. It is obvious now that there was not an obvious choice. I can see their thinking. Until a QB plays in real game situations it is impossible to know. I sympathize with staffs. Saban has done well in choosing QB's, especially for a defensive coach.

My guess is that part of the reason it was easier to go with Bateman was because at the time Coker seemed much less capable of eluding an OM type pass rush than he. So, things just seemed to add up to Bateman. Who knew Bama would turn it over 5 times, with none in return, as well as give up 2 "highly unusual" 70 yd TDs.

rgw · Oct 11, 2015

As 81usaf92 pointed, I think the plan was for it to be a duel between Coker and Cornwell but Cornwell regressed or otherwise got in the doghouse and they responded by making it a more wide-open race. They like giving the favorite some competition in these new QB scenarios to push the favorite towards realizing his potential but the way this worked out in the off-season may have ended up hurting things more than it helped.

Things went from it being a two-man race between Coker and Cornwell with Bateman not even taking snaps at QB to Coker v. Bateman v. Morris because they were looking for a backup as much as they were looking for a starter in some regards.

CrimsonForce · Oct 11, 2015

rgw said:
By the way the "Bateman experiment" was supposedly due to Coker having flu-like symptoms which restricted the number of snaps he had during preparation for Ole Miss. Honestly, I kind of blame the staff for that one because if they would have gotten behind Coker earlier in Fall Camp and given him the majority of the starter snaps instead of rotating a bunch of guys then they might have felt comfortable with his knowledge of the offense to come in cold and execute. Especially since he came in cold anyway, down in the game, and played admirably well despite the adversity.

I don't think this QB position was handled well at all in camp and I think the comfort level for Coker was negatively effected by it. Did they really think Bateman was a guy? Or that Morris deserved some looks? Seriously, just pick the guy and groom him...the QB battle was just a bit too open and shoulda been narrowed down to a couple guys early and went with Coker 100% after Wisconsin.

I heard on radio that Bateman starting the OM games was due to Coker missing curfew the night before. TIFWIW, was not able to verify that information elsewhere..

81usaf92 · Oct 11, 2015

CrimsonForce said:
I heard on radio that Bateman starting the OM games was due to Coker missing curfew the night before. TIFWIW, was not able to verify that information elsewhere..

Yeah thats the thing about rumors, you never know when one is legit until CNS verifies it and even then you dont know. Thats why I try not to post rumors. Yeah I know I just did, but I posted it because 1) it fits the drastic differences of both CLK and CNS in terms of what they look for in a QB and 2) these rumors have already been posted by a publisher and a moderator on this site. But as the saying goes "Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear" and I can tell you I hear alot from my REC and "informed" people that I see on gameday when I set up. Because you know everyone either has or wants that "key source" in their backpocket to gossip with other or post on forums.:wink:

81usaf92 · Oct 11, 2015

BamaInBham said:
It worked with AJ/Simms and Sims/Coker. It is obvious now that there was not an obvious choice. I can see their thinking. Until a QB plays in real game situations it is impossible to know. I sympathize with staffs. Saban has done well in choosing QB's, especially for a defensive coach.

My guess is that part of the reason it was easier to go with Bateman was because at the time Coker seemed much less capable of eluding an OM type pass rush than he. So, things just seemed to add up to Bateman. Who knew Bama would turn it over 5 times, with none in return, as well as give up 2 "highly unusual" 70 yd TDs.

It worked in AJ's case because he had the most defense known to man, or at the very least number 2 only to the 95 Nebraska team, and AJ was just a GMAC clone his first year in the fact that he just managed the game.

It worked in Sims case because he had lightning speed and Amari Cooper, and Jake couldnt get the playbook down or was recovering from an injury.

QB battles dont always mean one will emerge above the others. Again Drew Henson and Tom Brady, the safer option only works if you have a great supporting cast and one has better rythem with the offense like Brady and Coker did. Not a coach but practically every successful qb battle has one if not both of those things.

BamaInBham · Oct 11, 2015

81usaf92 said:
It worked in AJ's case because he had the most defense known to man, or at the very least number 2 only to the 95 Nebraska team, and AJ was just a GMAC clone his first year in the fact that he just managed the game.

It worked in Sims case because he had lightning speed and Amari Cooper, and Jake couldnt get the playbook down or was recovering from an injury.

QB battles dont always mean one will emerge above the others. Again Drew Henson and Tom Brady, the safer option only works if you have a great supporting cast and one has better rythem with the offense like Brady and Coker did. Not a coach but practically every successful qb battle has one if not both of those things.

None of that changes the fact that AJ and Blake were the best choices and that Saban's approach worked well, thus justifying that approach again this year. (Is this not a great defense ?) Many would agree that Coker was not a slam dunk even after the first couple of games, especially in view of his decision making and pocket presence - big issues.

Coker has improved but it was not certain that he would. I find it difficult to be critical of the staff, especially not knowing all of the factors (practice, etc) involved.

81usaf92 · Oct 11, 2015

81usaf92 said:
It worked in AJ's case because he had the most defense known to man, or at the very least number 2 only to the 95 Nebraska team, and AJ was just a GMAC clone his first year in the fact that he just managed the game.

It worked in Sims case because he had lightning speed and Amari Cooper, and Jake couldnt get the playbook down or was recovering from an injury.

QB battles dont always mean one will emerge above the others. Again Drew Henson and Tom Brady, the safer option only works if you have a great supporting cast and one has better rythem with the offense like Brady and Coker did. Not a coach but practically every successful qb battle has one if not both of those things.

BamaInBham said:
None of that changes the fact that AJ and Blake were the best choices and that Saban's approach worked well, thus justifying that approach again this year. (Is this not a great defense ?) Many would agree that Coker was not a slam dunk even after the first couple of games, especially in view of his decision making and pocket presence - big issues.

Coker has improved but it was not certain that he would. I find it difficult to be critical of the staff, especially not knowing all of the factors (practice, etc) involved.

Again, not disputing if they were the right choices, but they had two totally different circumstances involved. When AJ was competing, Alabama was a run it down your throat and defense will fix any mistakes that the offense does make kinda team. AJ vs P. Sims was an easier situation because it came down to who could make less mistakes and learn the offense better. The pressure of getting outpaced by a high scoring team was also never a worry in 2011.

Sims vs Coker is vastly different. You have a defense that just gave up 600 yards to aTm , blown out of the water by Stoops,and had trouble with Malzahn's gimmick offense. The margin of error from a qb was not really big. Coker and Sims are identical when you think about it. They both had problems early on at staring down receivers and some bone headed decisions. The difference is Sims's speed and his chemistry with the team. It also helps that Amari is there to bail him out if he gets in trouble.

As for this year, I truly believe that Cornwell was viewed as the number 2 guy if Coker faltered and Barnett was a number 3 or 4 guy. But Cornwell fell off the end of the earth, and Barnett is just not there. So by default Coker should be the guy for better or worse right? Wrong! we play around with Bateman and Morris who were never truly considered to be starters in the first place, and we have Coker constantly looking over his shoulders thinking each mistake could cost him. The idea that Morris and Bateman could potentially start probably should've ended when Coker got 95% of the snaps in a pretty impressive win over Wisconsin, but for whatever reason it didn't. You are probably thinking "Well Blake wasn't clearly the man until Florida", but the immediate counter will be Blake had 3 games against lesser competition to distance himself from Coker, while Coker had 2.

As far as the defensive argument, you also talking about betting the house on us stopping 1 petrino led Arkansas, 1 PSU power team, and 1 LSU team in 2011, while betting the house against a talented Ole Miss offense, Chubb, Fournette, Sumlin with some ammo, and a few HUNH offenses right now. We could afford to make some mistakes and get away with it in 2011, but this year mistakes are going to add up.

My point has never been was there an obvious choice, but rather that an in season qb competition is always not the way to go. I just hope it doesn't bite us by December.

BamaInBham · Oct 12, 2015

81usaf92 said:
Again, not disputing if they were the right choices, but they had two totally different circumstances involved. When AJ was competing, Alabama was a run it down your throat and defense will fix any mistakes that the offense does make kinda team. AJ vs P. Sims was an easier situation because it came down to who could make less mistakes and learn the offense better. The pressure of getting outpaced by a high scoring team was also never a worry in 2011.

Sims vs Coker is vastly different. You have a defense that just gave up 600 yards to aTm , blown out of the water by Stoops,and had trouble with Malzahn's gimmick offense. The margin of error from a qb was not really big. Coker and Sims are identical when you think about it. They both had problems early on at staring down receivers and some bone headed decisions. The difference is Sims's speed and his chemistry with the team. It also helps that Amari is there to bail him out if he gets in trouble.

As for this year, I truly believe that Cornwell was viewed as the number 2 guy if Coker faltered and Barnett was a number 3 or 4 guy. But Cornwell fell off the end of the earth, and Barnett is just not there. So by default Coker should be the guy for better or worse right? Wrong! we play around with Bateman and Morris who were never truly considered to be starters in the first place, and we have Coker constantly looking over his shoulders thinking each mistake could cost him. The idea that Morris and Bateman could potentially start probably should've ended when Coker got 95% of the snaps in a pretty impressive win over Wisconsin, but for whatever reason it didn't. You are probably thinking "Well Blake wasn't clearly the man until Florida", but the immediate counter will be Blake had 3 games against lesser competition to distance himself from Coker, while Coker had 2.

As far as the defensive argument, you also talking about betting the house on us stopping 1 petrino led Arkansas, 1 PSU power team, and 1 LSU team in 2011, while betting the house against a talented Ole Miss offense, Chubb, Fournette, Sumlin with some ammo, and a few HUNH offenses right now. We could afford to make some mistakes and get away with it in 2011, but this year mistakes are going to add up.

My point has never been was there an obvious choice, but rather that an in season qb competition is always not the way to go. I just hope it doesn't bite us by December.

We just disagree. Maybe you can call Coach Saban's show and tell him his approach never works, even though it has in the past. And no I don't think Bama would have won the NC in 11 with Simms or the SEC last year with Coker.

bamablood6 · Oct 12, 2015

Some of you make me scratch my head. Coker is the best option and is still learning after 18 quarters of football. Sims was a mess at times last year, and he was a 5th year guy that had never hardly played before. He also had a whole bunch of dropped INTs last year that hit defenders right in their numbers. Those caught up to him at the end of the season and no one replaced him. You also can not expect any QB to have much success with a 1.5 seconds to pass. Coker is not perfect, but he is not the only problem on offense. OL struggles, poor WR routes and catching problems, and TE play is iffy. So when someone mentioned it was offensive communication, I think they were right. The stupid sign play calling is new to everyone including the OC and something within that system is a problem for the offense. Coker has taken a lot of big hits too, and continues to get right back up. I'm not sure any of those other QBs could even take the crushing hits he has taken. It's time to get the offense in check, from top to bottom, every player, every coach and it's comms.

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