Question: What exactly comprises "concussion protocol"?

4Q Basket Case · Oct 23, 2015

We all know Ryan Kelly is going through "concussion protocol," and are glad for the increased emphasis over the past few years. But it got me deadly curious...what exactly is that?

Headaches? Memory? Sensitivity to light? Reasoning? And what specific activities does the player perform -- whether mental, physical, or both -- to satisfy the medical staff that he's ready to return?

Anybody out there know?

Im_on_dsp · Oct 23, 2015

4Q Basket Case said:
We all know Ryan Kelly is going through "concussion protocol," and are glad for the increased emphasis over the past few years. But it got me deadly curious...what exactly is that?

Headaches? Memory? Sensitivity to light? Reasoning? And what specific activities does the player perform -- whether mental, physical, or both -- to satisfy the medical staff that he's ready to return?

Anybody out there know?

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/108223/what-exactly-is-the-concussion-protocol

TIDE-HSV · Oct 23, 2015

Here are the NCAA guidelines: LINK

G-VilleTider · Oct 23, 2015

edit: Thanks Tidefanbeezer!

tidefanbeezer · Oct 23, 2015

G-VilleTider said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoX-HkOcEuE

edit: sorry can't figure out how to imbed it

You will find this thread useful.

MASH HERE

Chukker Veteran · Oct 23, 2015

4Q Basket Case said:
We all know Ryan Kelly is going through "concussion protocol," and are glad for the increased emphasis over the past few years. But it got me deadly curious...what exactly is that?

Anybody out there know?

That's a great question & I've wondered about it myself. My best guess is that there may be things that can be done to minimize brain damage from multiple concussions suffered on the football field...but there is simply no way to eliminate the danger completely.

Reading the NCAA link about the concussion protocol Earle posted above...they are obviously concerned about this problem and are trying to make things better or safer for the players...but I hope the players aren't under the impression that this protocol will completely eliminate the threat of long term brain damage from playing football.

This is not a completely fair comparison...but I'll make it for conversation's sake (it's a slow Friday for me, hooray!) College football is a real cash cow for the NCAA...but taking the NCAA's word on what constitutes safety and safe play regarding concussions reminds me of the tobacco industry telling people how to smoke tobacco safely.

I'm not suggesting we stop playing football or even turn it into a tag-type game and eliminate the hard hits...I like watching it as is. Many occupations carry long term health risks, not just football. In short, it's very good everyone is becoming more aware of this problem...but I would like to think the guys playing understand the risk of long term damage they are taking.

rgw · Oct 23, 2015

by the way, did Kelly get cleared mid-week as expected?

tidegrandpa · Oct 23, 2015

4Q Basket Case said:
We all know Ryan Kelly is going through "concussion protocol," and are glad for the increased emphasis over the past few years. But it got me deadly curious...what exactly is that?

Headaches? Memory? Sensitivity to light? Reasoning? And what specific activities does the player perform -- whether mental, physical, or both -- to satisfy the medical staff that he's ready to return?

Anybody out there know?

Here's Mike Leach's protocol :biggrin2:

The official release from the university doesn't shed much light. ESPN reporter Joe Schad, however, gets more specific on his Twitter feed: "Mike Leach is alleged to have isolated a player in a dark closet for not practicing with a concussion." That player, we soon learned, is wide receiver Adam James, son of ex-SMU star and current ESPN analyst Craig James, who reported to Texas Tech "with great regret and after consideration" that "[his] son had been subjected to actions and treatment not consistent with common sense rules for safety and health," according to a release by the family. Specific allegations include confining Adam James to an equipment room for three hours when he was unable to practice and instructing a trainer to "place James in an electrical closet." An attorney for Leach (who also has his own law degree) admitted James was secluded on two occasions, but "the circumstances were not as portrayed by the James family."

CB4 · Oct 23, 2015

Chukker Veteran said:
That's a great question & I've wondered about it myself. My best guess is that there may be things that can be done to minimize brain damage from multiple concussions suffered on the football field...but there is simply no way to eliminate the danger completely.

Reading the NCAA link about the concussion protocol Earle posted above...they are obviously concerned about this problem and are trying to make things better or safer for the players...but I hope the players aren't under the impression that this protocol will completely eliminate the threat of long term brain damage from playing football.

This is not a completely fair comparison...but I'll make it for conversation's sake (it's a slow Friday for me, hooray!) College football is a real cash cow for the NCAA...but taking the NCAA's word on what constitutes safety and safe play regarding concussions reminds me of the tobacco industry telling people how to smoke tobacco safely.

I'm not suggesting we stop playing football or even turn it into a tag-type game and eliminate the hard hits...I like watching it as is. Many occupations carry long term health risks, not just football. In short, it's very good everyone is becoming more aware of this problem...but I would like to think the guys playing understand the risk of long term damage they are taking.

My daughter suffered three concussions in a very short period of time participating in competitive cheer and gymnastics as a 15 year old. It took her almost the entire freshman year of high school to recover. She had severe cognitive impairment (fogginess), light sensitivity, forgetfulness, dizziness, headaches, among other issues. What her neurologist and neuropsychologist theorize is that she had never fully recovered from the first two when she suffered a third severe blow from teammates' elbow landing with full force to the crown of her head , knocking her out completely. It was pretty scary. They also thought it was highly probable that she had suffered other concussive injuries at earlier ages that we were not aware of. We held her out of all competition and practices for 18 months. Academically, she suffered tremendously.

Even today her CT's show areas of her brain suffered some damage from the repeated bruising. Together we made the decision that the risk far outweighed any benefits, and she quit competition entering her senior year. She was heartbroken because she had been competing since she was nine years old.

NationalTitles18 · Oct 23, 2015

https://www.aan.com/concussion

This page has links to summaries for family, coaches, and clinicians.

Specifically, here is some information from the University:

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/concussionpolicyAlabama2015.pdf

TIDE-HSV · Oct 23, 2015

CB4 said:
My daughter suffered three concussions in a very short period of time participating in competitive cheer and gymnastics as a 15 year old. It took her almost the entire freshman year of high school to recover. She had severe cognitive impairment (fogginess), light sensitivity, forgetfulness, dizziness, headaches, among other issues. What her neurologist and neuropsychologist theorize is that she had never fully recovered from the first two when she suffered a third severe blow from teammates' elbow landing with full force to the crown of her head , knocking her out completely. It was pretty scary. They also thought it was highly probable that she had suffered other concussive injuries at earlier ages that we were not aware of. We held her out of all competition and practices for 18 months. Academically, she suffered tremendously.

Even today her CT's show areas of her brain suffered some damage from the repeated bruising. Together we made the decision that the risk far outweighed any benefits, and she quit competition entering her senior year. She was heartbroken because she had been competing since she was nine years old.

This is what worries me. A concussion is a physical injury. The brain is raw from banging around in the brain case. I honestly don't think that the brain can heal in a week's time. It's been known for a while that rapidly recurring injuries have a cumulative effect. I think that extreme conservatism is called for. I've had three, one of with which it took almost 24 hours to regain full consciousness. Back then, the test was "How many fingers am I holding up?"

runtheoption22 · Oct 24, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
This is what worries me. A concussion is a physical injury. The brain is raw from banging around in the brain case. I honestly don't think that the brain can heal in a week's time. It's been known for a while that rapidly recurring injuries have a cumulative effect. I think that extreme conservatism is called for. I've had three, one of with which it took almost 24 hours to regain full consciousness. Back then, the test was "How many fingers am I holding up?"

Earle, we had one of our better players get a concussion in the 1at half last week. He was almost normal after the game. But he still hasn't been cleared, still lingering effects from something he seemed practically normal 1.5 hours later.

rgw · Oct 24, 2015

If thats the case, I'm betting the backup plays...no contact all week is usually a sign of no play time.

Chukker Veteran · Oct 24, 2015

runtheoption22 said:
Earle, we had one of our better players get a concussion in the 1at half last week. He was almost normal after the game. But he still hasn't been cleared, still lingering effects from something he seemed practically normal 1.5 hours later.

It may not have been his first concussion.

I wonder if younger players are more apt to suffer long term damage from concussions than someone who is a little older when they get injured.

Maybe young brains are more resilient and able to make a full recovery sooner...or it could be just the opposite...the younger you are when concussed the greater the danger of trouble down the road. Even the experts may not know the answer to my question for certain.

TIDE-HSV · Oct 24, 2015

runtheoption22 said:
Earle, we had one of our better players get a concussion in the 1at half last week. He was almost normal after the game. But he still hasn't been cleared, still lingering effects from something he seemed practically normal 1.5 hours later.

As I said, my first - and worst - happened back in the days of "how many fingers," so I wasn't followed at all. Everyone around me knew I wasn't normal - hell, I knew I wasn't - but no one knew anything to do. I can remember the moment I converted back to normal as if it happened yesterday, but I'm sure I had lingering effects. The other two happened snow skiing, one in Switzerland. I got turned around in a bump field and the Swiss have some weird grooming habits. I shot backwards off what felt like a cliff, although, when I looked back, it was more like 6-7'. I was dazed again, but not nearly like back in HS. When I met up with my wife at lunch, she took one look at me and said "What happened to you." Instead of explaining immediately, I just said "Do you have some Advil?" Sometimes, though, it's not so obvious. Reading through the NCAA guidlines above, I wonder what those "examinations" are like...

TIDE-HSV · Oct 24, 2015

Chukker Veteran said:
It may not have been his first concussion.

I wonder if younger players are more apt to suffer long term damage from concussions than someone who is a little older when they get injured.

Maybe young brains are more resilient and able to make a full recovery sooner...or it could be just the opposite...the younger you are when concussed the greater the danger of trouble down the road. Even the experts may not know the answer to my question for certain.

I don't think there's any doubt that it's worse, the younger the patient is. The main reason is that the brain is still maturing, or at least the prefrontal lobes are, which is one reason youngsters make so many bad choices and display spectacularly bad judgement. Last I read of the subject, the theory was that the maturation isn't complete until the early 20s. Interfering with any organism which is still growing is obviously bad news...

Tide Rev · Oct 24, 2015

I have had one serious concussion that I am aware of. It took a weeks to get over. Used to love to ride roller coasters but can't anymore because it makes my brain woozy. Something definitely changed when I had mine. I cannot imagine what football would do to me.

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Question: What exactly comprises "concussion protocol"?

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