State Flag Comes Down at Ole Miss

92tide said:

me saying that the government should not fly that flag over public property and that i and many many others find the flag abhorrent for very clear and real reasons is in no way the same as saying you should or must hold the same view as me or that my view is the only legitimate view.

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Thanks for the clarification.
There are many (and you on this board at times) who seem to jump from the former to the latter position.

Ultimately, the flag of Mississippi is the state flag.
If the faculty and students had started a campaign to change the state flag, they would be on surer footing. They might even have won, and gotten the voters of Mississippi to change the state flag. But in the absence of such a change, they are in violation of the law. Maybe for good reason (Rosa Parks had a good reason for violating the law), but it seems that advocates of lawless acts like this seem aware of the shaky ground they have occupied and attempt to shore up their position by painting those who hold an opposing view with the broad brush of racism.

I just think their are valid reasons to supporting flying the state flag that have nothing to do with racism. These reasons should not be drowned out by the hysteria of the moment.

Jon said:

Et Tu Bodhi?


Really?

nowhere in this thread have I argued anything other than that the flag now means hate.

I've not expressed a single opinion on what Ole Miss or the State of MS Should do. Frankly I hope they keep it up. In fact I'd love for them to fight with everything they have to keep their stupid racist symbols. Should help us when it comes to close recruiting battles


Majority rule? What?

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Maybe I misread your earlier post. But, I thought you meant that the majority interpretation was the correct interpretation. To me, the majority is often wrong. If the uniformed see a sacred symbol of Hinduism, Buddhism, or Jainism and think they are Nazis, they are wrong. And I would prefer these people not be allowed to influence public policy.

I also prefer to keep politicians in check via the rule of law. Without that politicians harness each faux outrage to increase there power. We have legal procedures for implementing or changing policy. Unless of course one doesn't really want to be bothered with such things. We've had hundreds of years of federal government overreach. We have a current administration that creates laws without going through the legislative branch. We have a government that chooses not to enforce its own laws. And then will punish states that try to enforce federal laws.

And while I don't care one way or the other about Mississippi's flag, I find it hypocritical that the student "government" doesn't know or care enough to go through the proper procedure. I guess that ironically makes them excellent candidates for future leadership. If these kids would lead a legal effort to change the flag, I would applaud them.

I've read where they are comparing themselves to a previous generation's civil rights leaders. I don't think so; they are more like PC bullies. Disagree with them and you are a racist. Would they be willing to go to jail for their civil disobedience? Would the UM leadership be willing to lose their jobs over this issue? Doubtful. There is no bravery here. It's risk-free grandstanding.

You have evidence that the majority of people who have no issues with the flag in fact are hate-filled?

On another note, it's interesting to see the inconsistency of opinion when it comes to state actors following the law. A county clerk refuses to issue marriage licenses, and she's a law breaker. A state university refuses to follow the law and is revered for its civil disobedience.

Bodhisattva said:

Maybe I misread your earlier post. But, I thought you meant that the majority interpretation was the correct interpretation. To me, the majority is often wrong. If the uniformed see a sacred symbol of Hinduism, Buddhism, or Jainism and think they are Nazis, they are wrong. And I would prefer these people not be allowed to influence public policy.

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Saying that this particular view is correct has connotations of approval and I don't necessarily approve of what the flag has become but that doesn't change that it is as you correctly stated that this has become the majority view. I said the flag now ='s hate, it being the majority view means I am right whether or not the majority is wrong in their interpretation.

Let me see if I can state it clearer. If the Majority thinks the flag is a symbol of hate then it's a symbol of hate. Period. Correct has nothing to do with it.

Bodhisattva said:

I also prefer to keep politicians in check via the rule of law. Without that politicians harness each faux outrage to increase there power. We have legal procedures for implementing or changing policy. Unless of course one doesn't really want to be bothered with such things. We've had hundreds of years of federal government overreach. We have a current administration that creates laws without going through the legislative branch. We have a government that chooses not to enforce its own laws. And then will punish states that try to enforce federal laws.

And while I don't care one way or the other about Mississippi's flag, I find it hypocritical that the student "government" doesn't know or care enough to go through the proper procedure. I guess that ironically makes them excellent candidates for future leadership. If these kids would lead a legal effort to change the flag, I would applaud them.

I've read where they are comparing themselves to a previous generation's civil rights leaders. I don't think so; they are more like PC bullies. Disagree with them and you are a racist. Would they be willing to go to jail for their civil disobedience? Would the UM leadership be willing to lose their jobs over this issue? Doubtful. There is no bravery here. It's risk-free grandstanding.

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On the rest of your post I agree completely

Jon said:

Saying that this particular view is correct has connotations of approval and I don't necessarily approve of what the flag has become but that doesn't change that it is as you correctly stated that this has become the majority view. I said the flag now ='s hate, it being the majority view means I am right whether or not the majority is wrong in their interpretation.

Let me see if I can state it clearer. If the Majority thinks the flag is a symbol of hate then it's a symbol of hate. Period. Correct has nothing to do with it.



On the rest of your post I agree completely

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Pray to God, you're never subject to a jury trial.

Jon said:

OK I'll change it

everyone outside of the south except for two guys standing in front of a flag in what we are told is Africa.

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Don't forget the couple hundred of Os Confederados in Brasil.

Aledinho said:

Don't forget the couple hundred of Os Confederados in Brasil.

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you know the history of them right?

tidegrandpa said:

Pray to God, you're never subject to a jury trial.

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my beliefs get me disqualified quickly

92tide said:

hell, i live in the deep south and if i see someone wearing a rebel flag shirt i pretty much assume they are a racist moron. but i'm judgmental like that.

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Sounds like the definition of a racist moron.


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Tide1986 said:

You have evidence that the majority of people who have no issues with the flag in fact are hate-filled?

On another note, it's interesting to see the inconsistency of opinion when it comes to state actors following the law. A county clerk refuses to issue marriage licenses, and she's a law breaker. A state university refuses to follow the law and is revered for its civil disobedience.

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Did not like segregation.

Did their job anyway.

Hero's of the highest magnitude.

dvldog said:

Hero's of the highest magnitude.

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True. It is a bit off topic, but if you have not been to Moton Field in Tuskegee, it is well worth a visit.

92tide said:

i voted for the guy who took it down. fyi, it was taken down in 2001.

not that i care much about state flags, but this is my state flag

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The modern state flag shares the same colors as the Confederate flag therefore it too must be racist! LOL

Jon said:

you know the history of them right?

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Yeah, but for the Brasiians, the Confederate flag represents improved farming techniques and much needed labor in the interior of Sao Paulo while the Yankee flag supported a brutal military dictatorship, sent the CIA to teach a sadistic fornication-head how to torture dissidents better, and also bank rolled an illegal sterilization campaign (see NSSM 200).

I would think that being called the Rebels would cause much more of an uproar that the flag. I went to their offical U of M site and you have to look hard to find a brown bear. Its still the Ole Miss Rebels. I wonder where their priorities are maybe thinking of the flag come Saturday where I will be hoping for a 3 fumble game by each side with Ole Miss taking a safety in a tie game to loose to the university of aubArn. Roll Tide....