Question: Aliens--do they exist? (not the group Trump is fired up over)

RammerJammer14

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Aug 18, 2007
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I'm still waiting on proof that proves my theory, belief, wrong? I have searched the net for why humans do not have fur as animals, that we were supposedly evolved from, and all I have read or seen is guesses. Proving evolution is just as hard as proving god exist if not more so. I know AUDub believes my ideas are hairbrained and his a stroke of genius. Hell he could be correct I don't know. From what I gather my 141 IQ is supposedly borderline genius but I can't prove it either way, nor prove that I have a 141 IQ. ;)

Believe whatever the hell you want is my motto!! ;)
Firstly, no one will ever be able to "prove" you wrong because one cannot prove that something that does not exist does not exist. What do you expect me to do, show you my empty Alien trap? But what I can do is perhaps provide a more persuasive argument for the things aliens are supposed to have done.

So, for a few small evolutionary things. Humans are mammals. Unless you are incredibly abnormal, you probably can look at your arm and see that it is hairy. Sure, we don't have fur, but we do have hair. Elephants are also mammals, but they are similarly fur-less. Were Elephants created by Aliens too? How about Hippos? Rhinoceroses?And if you are going to go along with that type of reasoning I think you need to ask yourself a few questions such as:

Why would Aliens care whether we are furry or not?
What purpose would it serve to make us furless, that is not better explained by natural selection?

Now for some brief evolutionary ideas. It is thought that humans began in Africa. We developed a very efficient cooling system not shared by many of our fellow mammals-take dogs for example. We sweat out of our pores onto our relatively furless skin, making it easier for quick evaporation, which cools the body. Like an air-conditioner. Why? Because it is stupid hot in Africa. All along the equator, in fact. And humans were and are active creatures. In fact it is believed that humans may have evolved as long-distance stalkers. That we would run our prey to exhaustion over a long distance, then close with and kill it. I would also point out that it is a pretty well documented fact that pretty much all indigenous human populations in these areas around the equator wore pretty much no clothing until Europeans arrived and imposed their cultural norms. Take sub-Saharan Africa for example. A bunch of people in a hot climate who wore skimpy clothing but had dark-pigmented skin to counteract UV exposure.

Now I threw a lot of "maybes" and "it is believed" in there. This is because (1) there are few things in history that we can be 100% certain on, especially when we are talking pre-written history. (2) I am not an expert by any means on this subject and could have some of the details off. But how this somehow discredits the view or opens it up to alien intervention as a more plausible explanation, I do not know.

Lastly, I know you like to imply that God and/or Angels and Demons are really Aliens or spirit aliens that created humanity. (I suppose scientologists and Mormons do as well, come to think of it). My question is, why do aliens enter into it at all?!? On what basis other than pure speculation? WHY ALIENS!

Right now your argument seems to be this:

Humans don't have fur, therefore Aliens.


In what universe (heh) is that the most plausible theory?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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AUDub

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Dec 4, 2013
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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
I'm still waiting on proof that proves my theory, belief, wrong?
The burden of proof is yours here. I won't consider every harebrained scheme I come across. You could claim God is teapot orbiting somewhere off in the asteroid belt and I couldn't prove it wrong, but that doesn't mean the theory is likely to be correct. Show me proof that your theory, belief, is plausible and worthy of my consideration.

I have searched the net for why humans do not have fur as animals, that we were supposedly evolved from, and all I have read or seen is guesses.
You have seen hypotheses, but just because we don't have definitive answer as to why does not mean every harebrained idea should be considered.

Your "theory" (you mean hypothesis) amounts to a God-of-the-Gaps (in this case, Aliens-of-the-Gaps) hypothesis. Natural selection is the best possible answer because it has obviously been case every other time such evolutionary changes have occurred.

Proving evolution is just as hard as proving god exist if not more so.
Now that's just flat wrong. Handwaving away all of the evidence? For shame. :smile:

There is so much evidence! Why, it's one of the best established theories in science!

Examples:

Anatomical homologies
DNA and RNA code
Endogenous retroviral insertions
Pseudogenes
Embryology
Chromosome fusion (One of my favorites. Google Ken Miller's excellent lecture on the subject. He's Catholic, like me. ;))
Convergence
Uniqueness
Fossil stratification
and so on and so forth.

There's a metric ton of evidence supporting evolution! The foundation for belief in evolution is following the evidence. The foundation for belief in God is faith. Belief in things unseen.

I know AUDub believes my ideas are hairbrained and his a stroke of genius. Hell he could be correct I don't know. From what I gather my 141 IQ is supposedly borderline genius but I can't prove it either way, nor prove that I have a 141 IQ. ;)
No offense, but your IQ is meaningless in the context of this debate. "Genius is no defense against being flat wrong."

Believe whatever the hell you want is my motto!! ;)
My motto is be skeptical of everything, but go where the evidence takes you.
 
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willie52

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Jan 25, 2008
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They're here, proof is in Washington D.C. Where else could you have so many people whose minds have been altered by space travel. :biggrin2:
 

nx4bama

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Apr 8, 2010
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Not sure why my cred is important. I'd prefer to let my arguments stand on their own merits. Since you've asked; I've mentioned in the past I claim an engineering degree. I have a BSEE. I also have an AAS and Certificate in Biomedical Engineering Technology. I am a Clinical Engineer by trade, and have worked as a lab technician and a Biomed tech. I have good understanding of human anatomy and physiology and evolutionary biology, but I do not claim expertise in either of these fields.
Well, given those credentials, there are certainly people a lot more qualified than you standing on either side of the statement MOAN made... So, there's that...
 

Al A Bama

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Jun 24, 2011
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From a purely scientific standpoint I doubt it seriously. Like Catfish said the odds are heavily stacked against it.

Deities notwithstanding:

It is against odds that we even exist.
Add to the odds that it happened more than once.
Add to the odds that they gained sufficient intelligence.
Add to the odds that they detected us.
Add to the odds that they are close enough. (even if the dimension theories were true).
So, are you saying that Alabama may NOT have won 15 National Championships?
 

MOAN

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Aug 30, 2010
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No desire to reply to all the great intellectual points made against my theory, hypothesis, so I will not go down that road. I will just say what I think, feel, makes sense to me and leave it at that. ;)

I do believe in evolution. To a point. The life on this planet evolved to perfectly fit the conditions and environment of this planet, no other! Atmosphere, gravitational pull, radiation, many variables come into play to why we are perfectly suited to Earth and not anywhere else in the solar system and possibly galaxy, universe as far as we know. Our conditions that suit us so perfectly would more than likely prove intolerable to any other life evolving from another physical, material planet, galaxy, so it is unlikely at all that any aliens residing in the realm we exist in is visiting us!!

But I do not think that the realm of existence we reside in is all there is. 12, 13, 14 billion years that science calculates our universe's existence seems a long time to us humans but in the scheme of things is only a blink of an eye to say a trillion years ago or infinity.

Black holes. Could black holes be the conception of future universes, realms of existence for matter to spring from in the distant future? Did our universe pop into existence from a black hole that existed in another universe in another parallel universe or long distant past universe that has long since died? Yes I believe our universe will one day die as science predicts. All things physical, material, consisting of matter that lives, or has any kind of physical process that can be considered a process dies in my opinion. Atoms along with all matter in the physical realm are recyclable as energy is.

That brings me to the question, what is the energy force of life? When the conception of life occurs, what is the force that kick starts life? We have in our power to manipulate DNA, genetics today, but we do not understand the process that triggers life. Is it magic? I don't think anyone believes that but there is something that conception, germination, whatever that occurs to make the manipulations of even man, say in a test tube, to become a life.

Maybe we are the pinnacle of life, how the heck would I know one way or the other? Man lives these days on average a whopping 75 revolutions around a mid size star on the outskirts of one of who knows how many billion or trillion galaxies and we are supposed to know anything for certain about our origins? I know I am not smart enough to know and I have no degree from any prestigious university in any field of higher learning such as basket weaving and chair stacking! ;)

You may be right to call my ideas and beliefs harebrained! I do have a lot of hair for my age! ;) Evolution may be all the answer you require but for me it raises more questions than it answers. Evolution alone that is! Evolution makes perfect sense for me when it is accompanied with intelligent design. We humans are undoubtedly animals in every sense of the word animal, but we are Earthly animals bound to live out our lives on the planet Earth. I do believe in a spirit, that life energy force that animates mere elements into life forms and I believe that spirit is eternal, infinite.

So to answer the the opening question, aliens--do they exist? I say yes they do!! I do not need to prove anything to anyone otherwise, I feel no burden whatsoever!! I am always willing to listen to proof, if you have any, that I am wrong. It better be convincing though and not a bunch of conjecture, hypothesis, guesses! I will still listen to those as you never know, my mind is always open for new ideas!

Great discussion, entertainment!! :)
 

RhodeIslandRed

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Dec 9, 2005
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Yes. Among all the reasons that exist, there is one good book which gives lots of archaeological anomalies. One can find the book (still on the Internet for free) by Maurice Chatelain who was a radar engineer subcontractor for NASA. The title is 'Our Ancestors Came from Outer Space.' Never mind the sensational title. It was copyright in 1978. It is written in several sections. First is his space program experience. The next is regarding archaeology and astroarchaeology and the anomalies which defy explanation. It was an interesting read that makes you go, hmmmm...
 

AUDub

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Dec 4, 2013
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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Yes. Among all the reasons that exist, there is one good book which gives lots of archaeological anomalies. One can find the book (still on the Internet for free) by Maurice Chatelain who was a radar engineer subcontractor for NASA. The title is 'Our Ancestors Came from Outer Space.' Never mind the sensational title. It was copyright in 1978. It is written in several sections. First is his space program experience. The next is regarding archaeology and astroarchaeology and the anomalies which defy explanation. It was an interesting read that makes you go, hmmmm...
I just had to look this guy up.


"when James Oberg contacted Chatelain's employers he learned that Chatelain was no longer employed by them when Apollo 11 landed on the moon. If he was no longer an employee of a NASA sub-contractor then he could not have been present in any so-called "secret room" where he could overhear the confidential communications of the astronauts on the lunar surface. He was a low-level engineer who worked for a NASA sub-contractor who built the Apollo communications systems. His status as the "head of communications" (as some UFOlogists have claimed), is entirely false."

Things that make you go hmm, indeed.
 

RhodeIslandRed

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Dec 9, 2005
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Very little of the book is about NASA. The book is an interesting read. It's hard to believe a person could just make this up. Just like the content on Ancient Aliens, let the archaeology present itself. Ignore the hair.

Edit:
I re-read the first chapter. When he discussed the Gemini and Apollo missions he only talked in an indirect manner regarding his sources. He confirms that he was employed in the US by Ryan Electronics and then by North American Aviation from 1959 to 1963 where he attended and lectured at a conference in France in 1963. He doesn't discuss his career after that time.
 
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