Link: ISIS' ("DAESH") underlying theology...

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

TIDE-HSV said:

This is a long, tough slog of an Atlantic article. However, I finally feel that I understand where they're coming from, and I didn't earlier. It changed a lot of my thinking on them. I would not have considered boots on the ground earlier. I'm no longer quite so set against it. If not, then what we and the allies (and I predict more participation from the Russians, as well) are doing is probably the second best military option. There's one error near the end - he states they haven't directed a remote terror operation, which is obviously pre-Paris. In case you don't know, the theory they're operating under is a apocalyptic battle in Raqqa between the Romans (us and allies) and the armies of God. They are to be reduced to 5,000, cornered in Jerusalem and then:


Jesus—the second-most-revered prophet in Islam—will return to Earth, spear Dajjal (anti-Messiah), and lead the Muslims to victory.


LINK

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they are an apocalyptic death cult

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

TIDE-HSV said:

True, but, in the interest of forming foreign policy, it's helpful to know a little more detail. We have been doing some things very, very wrong...

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Yeah... Backing the wrong horse because the other one hurt our leaders feelings after it crossed that line in the sand with chemical weapons. But I think we are also seeing why having these ruling with an iron fist dictators in charge is a good thing

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

TIDE-HSV said:

True, but, in the interest of forming foreign policy, it's helpful to know a little more detail. We have been doing some things very, very wrong...

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yeah. i do have to say that i am very glad that it is not me that has to come up with a way to deal with these freaks.

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

TIDE-HSV said:

Some truth in that, but you're still thinking like a westerner. If you read the article, I'll guarantee it will change the way you approach your thinking about them...

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I still think turning sides in Syria and let the ruskis do the superior military groundwork is a better option. I do agree Isis is probably the easier enemy to defeat between them and ALQUADA but I think a political and economic war is the best option available with their belief system and how they structurally work.

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

TIDE-HSV said:

True, but, in the interest of forming foreign policy, it's helpful to know a little more detail. We have been doing some things very, very wrong...

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Yeah, it started in Nov. 2008.

(You should have seen that one coming.)

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

I have read at least 10 or 15 different takes on this, and the linked one appears to be the most through.

The obvious reaction to some (and very tempting for that some to include me) is: "They want a fight in a specific place. Fine. Get the civilians out. Prove to us you are there. Especially those that are picking the fight, and let's have at it. If your God is who he says he is, he will prove it. If not you go away. "

The problem with this strategy is there is always a nut job with a claim, but when the nut job with a claim is able to cause as much harm as they have, eventually you call the bully out. The spot they picked is not defensible. They will have no air cover. Unless they are right about divine intervention it wouldn't be close.

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

Very informative, and scary read. Our very presence with boots on the ground could give validity to their cause worldwide....which could be very bad.

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

Whether we agree on the means to stop them or not, I think we all agree on their goals.
The problem is we have a government now that refuses to even identify the enemy. How can we stop the slaughter if our government is in denial and maybe even in agreement with that religion?

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

bamaphd@una said:

Very informative, and scary read. Our very presence with boots on the ground could give validity to their cause worldwide....which could be very bad.

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I don't have the answer to this but I suggested if we are to let in refugees it should only be only young women and small children. Perhaps the men can go back to defend their own countries. If they are not stopped there they are coming to us.

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

Gr8hope said:

I don't have the answer to this but I suggested if we are to let in refugees it should only be only young women and small children. Perhaps the men can go back to defend their own countries. If they are not stopped there they are coming to us.

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Ohhhh....I don't think we should allow any of them here at all. I have compassion for others, but not before my family.

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

TIDE-HSV said:

Sorry, but I don't not buy the Obama as Muslim argument. In fact, he's exacerbated the situation. However, the Salafi regard him as the son of a Muslim. By declaring them NOT to be true Islam, he has fallen into a semantic trap. According to Q'ran, when one person (son of a Muslim) accuses another of not being a true Muslim, then one or the other is wrong and has become "Takfir." Whichever is wrong must die. According to their doctrine, since they are the only true Muslims, he is Takfir and must die. It's a chore, but I really recommend reading the entire article...

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Does it really matter? He is anti-American, putting illegal immigrant rights and refugees above the people he has sworn to protect and serve.
As to Takfir, what about Taqiyya? Link: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/011-taqiyya.htm

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

bamaphd@una said:

Ohhhh....I don't think we should allow any of them here at all. I have compassion for others, but not before my family.

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There are many reasons to object that would include putting Americans first. We have a budget that is out of hand here. We do not properly take care of our veterans or elderly. How can we claim Christianity as the justification for bringing refugees here when we allow abortions? I could go on but you get it already.

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

Easily the most thought provoking piece I have read on ISIS (or whatever other name it may bear). Thanks.

Re: ISIS' underlying theology...

I remember reading this article back when it was posted in March. It made sense especially with my understanding of Islam. I also agree that many Muslims (and Jews would fall into this camp) follow a diluted/washed down version of their faith if you truly look at what their scripture says to do.

I do hope that the good coming out of the Paris attacks is a renewed focus by the PTB to devise and implement a sound strategy to eliminating ISIS. I also wonder how many fighters of ISIS were formerly in al-Qaeda, and how that would affect long-term ramifications of Islam if ISIS were to be eradicated.

I also believe that Islam really hasn't had a Reformation-type event in its history, and wonder how different things would be if they did. I do believe that the U.S. should allow all and any refugees into the U.S. that wish to come, but they must be vetted out to the nth degree to ensure that we're not allowing someone with bad intentions in.