Wrap that rascal - STD rates soar - it doesn't pay to be gay apparently

selmaborntidefan said:

At this point I stop and look and say, "In the computer age we have to rely upon ten-year old data?"

And for the record, I'm NOT for abstinence only education. Of course my problem, Jon, is folks like you won't go whole hog. I mean, if they're gonna do it anyway and we have to make it safe and we REALLY wanna prevent pregnancy, hell, why not just have sex rooms for study hall at the school coupled with nurses ensuring they're putting the condoms on correctly?

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come on Selma, really? You going to play this same no data bs game, drop a line or two that sounds funny or are you going to actually look at the data? Who cares if its from 2005 or 2015? data is data and most of the data agrees with me on this subject. Look around the world every country that provides accurate medical information on Sex has lower rates of pregnancy and STD's, every country. Everywhere abstinence education is tried it not only fails, but fails miserably. Why? Because kids are going to have sex and no amount of puritanical BS thinking will prevent them from doing so. So it's better to give them accurate real info.

and of course abstinence works every time, the same way avoiding everything hot will keep you 100% safe from burns. But are you actually going to do it? No, of course not. Just like a percentage of kids are going to have sex.

JBama_in_PCOLA said:

This is crazy. But yeah, what is medically accurate sex education?


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also know as Comprehensive sex ed. here is a decent link and I'm guessing your google is broken? this wasn't exactly hard to find (and its from the same site I linked earlier in this thread)


http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/pu...ams-definitions-and-point-by-point-comparison

Jon said:

also know as Comprehensive sex ed. here is a decent link and I'm guessing your google is broken? this wasn't exactly hard to find (and its from the same site I linked earlier in this thread)


http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/pu...ams-definitions-and-point-by-point-comparison

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Thanks.


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Although abstinence is the only morally correct way to do things, I can agree that the other should be taught too. However, it appears though that both have mixed results.


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JBama_in_PCOLA said:

Although abstinence is the only morally correct way to do things, I can agree that the other should be taught too. However, it appears though that both have mixed results.


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Data?

Jon said:

Data?

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You just gave all the data. Please don't act as though just because certain things aren't as prevalent in some areas it is a "win." There's a lot of unknowns when it comes to these things. How many were tested? What areas? What is the data not telling us. I'm all about facts, but sometimes there is a lot of variables left out to make it seem one way or another.


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JBama_in_PCOLA said:

You just gave all the data. Please don't act as though just because certain things aren't as prevalent in some areas it is a "win." There's a lot of unknowns when it comes to these things. How many were tested? What areas? What is the data not telling us. I'm all about facts, but sometimes there is a lot of variables left out to make it seem one way or another.


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you, selma, cajun all seem to be making claims, all I'm asking from any of you is to provide your data. Where, ever, has abstinence only education worked? What data can you show me that says it worked better than comprehensive sex ed? I'm (always) willing to be proved wrong. Show me the studies, provide the data. If you are correct I'll change my mind.

Jon said:

you, selma, cajun all seem to be making claims, all I'm asking from any of you is to provide your data. Where, ever, has abstinence only education worked? What data can you show me that says it worked better than comprehensive sex ed? I'm (always) willing to be proved wrong. Show me the studies, provide the data. If you are correct I'll change my mind.

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I'm actually looking at both sides of it. Neither side is better than the other to tell you the truth. We can all agree that abstinence is the best way. The way it is taught is incorrect. Since the kids are going to do what they want to do then you have to also teach the other as well to limit what could happen.

I can't be gun-ho about either though. But have its wins and losses.


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JBama_in_PCOLA said:

I'm actually looking at both sides of it. Neither side is better than the other to tell you the truth. We can all agree that abstinence is the best way. The way it is taught is incorrect. Since the kids are going to do what they want to do then you have to also teach the other as well to limit what could happen.

I can't be gun-ho about either though. But have its wins and losses.


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not that I agree with how you got there (I don't) but at least you understand the best most rational policy is comprehensive.

Jon said:

not that I agree with how you got there (I don't) but at least you understand the best most rational policy is comprehensive.

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Yes it's rational, and logical for the world we live in.




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JBama_in_PCOLA said:

Yes it's rational, and logical for the world we live in.




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you mean the real one? I agree

JBama_in_PCOLA said:

I'm actually looking at both sides of it. Neither side is better than the other to tell you the truth. We can all agree that abstinence is the best way. The way it is taught is incorrect. Since the kids are going to do what they want to do then you have to also teach the other as well to limit what could happen.

I can't be gun-ho about either though. But have its wins and losses.


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Dad: Johnny, drugs are bad for you. They impair your judgement, ultimately they destroy your willpower and your future. But since you are probably gonna try it anyway I put some antiseptic and some clean needles in your lunchbox today. No sense in being unsafe!


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RammerJammer14 said:

Dad: Johnny, drugs are bad for you. They impair your judgement, ultimately they destroy your willpower and your future. But since you are probably gonna try it anyway I put some antiseptic and some clean needles in your lunchbox today. No sense in being unsafe!


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Not quite.


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Since we're now talking about sex ed-- we left DBF and gay sex far behind--we should all be encouraged by the steady drop in teen pregnancy rates.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/gpr/17/3/gpr170315.html

Researchers have analyzed the role of both over the last several decades, and they have concluded that the declines can primarily—although not exclusively—be attributed to improvements in teens’ contraceptive use.

Pretty good article. Ya'll should read it.

RammerJammer14 said:

Dad: Johnny, drugs are bad for you. They impair your judgement, ultimately they destroy your willpower and your future. But since you are probably gonna try it anyway I put some antiseptic and some clean needles in your lunchbox today. No sense in being unsafe!


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Dad: Johnny. just say no doesn't work and hasn't ever worked, but drugs are bad

Johnny: what should I do then Dad?

Dad: just say no

JBama_in_PCOLA said:

Not quite.


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The point is that it is nonsensical to say "don't have premarital sex, then turn around and provide, for free, all the tools and knowledge to do just that. As the saying goes, actions speak louder than words. Teaching premarital "safe sex" promotes premarital "safe sex" regardless of what comes out of the other side of your mouth.

What other activity is there that you tell your kids not to do, but teach them how to do anyways because "they will probably do it"?


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RammerJammer14 said:

The point is that it is nonsensical to say "don't have premarital sex, then turn around and provide, for free, all the tools and knowledge to do just that. As the saying goes, actions speak louder than words. Teaching premarital "safe sex" promotes premarital "safe sex" regardless of what comes out of the other side of your mouth.

What other activity is there that you tell your kids not to do, but teach them how to do anyways because "they will probably do it"?


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I think you are looking at the as a parent. I'm not looking at it that way on this. As a parent I'm teaching abstinence, but I'm not foolish enough to think all my kids are angels all the time.


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Jon said:

Dad: Johnny. just say no doesn't work and hasn't ever worked, but drugs are bad

Johnny: what should I do then Dad?

Dad: just say no

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There are bad abstinence programs as well as good ones. "Just say No" is dumb because it gives no reasoning and is a purely negative message.

"Just say no" is a stupid campaign against youth cigarette smoking. It doesn't mean we should encourage the use of filters.


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RammerJammer14 said:

The point is that it is nonsensical to say "don't have premarital sex, then turn around and provide, for free, all the tools and knowledge to do just that. As the saying goes, actions speak louder than words. Teaching premarital "safe sex" promotes premarital "safe sex" regardless of what comes out of the other side of your mouth.

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That is a valid point.

What other activity is there that you tell your kids not to do, but teach them how to do anyways because "they will probably do it"?

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Devils advocate? I preach the dangers of underage drinking, but also say if you somehow find yourself in a bad situation, under NO circumstances drive or get in a car with someone who has been drinking. Call me. Call me. Call me.

The best class I had on safe sex was when I was a teenager. It was a situation with a girl that we were in a hot position and she said no way without a condom. No matter what I told her or even promise her how safe I would be she said no without a condom. Great class because next time I was prepared student of sex education. On a side note at that time as a seventeen year old it was very embarrassing to go in a store and buy a condom.