Why the US won't defeat ISIS

mittman

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The policy responses you describe, Bob, are largely correct.

As George C. Marshall said, "If you get the objectives right, a second lieutenant can write the strategy." Defining the objectives at the national security strategy level is ultimately, up to the president to do. When he doesn't (or uses nebulous "fudge" words), then everything else below his level gets immeasurably more difficult. Not impossible, but difficult.

This is the president weak suit, if you ask me.
First, this is probably too little, too late. This problem has been festering for too long, and the situation is much worse now than it was a year and a half ago.

The second point is related to the first. The president no doubt has asked the members of the coalition to support. When no (or little) material support or action materializes, it seems this president feels his job is done: "Well, I asked. Nobody did anything." The president just seems too passive. He seems extremely reluctant to lead. Leadership is getting people to do things they otherwise would not do. You cajole, persuade, bribe, and sometimes pressure others to do their bit. The United States is not just any country. When the US throws its weight around in support of good, good things happen. When the US throws its weight around in support of something bad, bad things happen. When the US does nothing in the face of abject evil or votes "present," evil notices. The president seems to prefer a very collegial style in which Luxembourg and Vanuatu count as much as the US. The idea of "leadership" seems distasteful to him.
Very well said, as usual.

He does not seem to believe that he is in a position to set a policy and provide direction. When he does not provide any direction, or those directions shift, he (and us as a country) lose credibility. That credibility is lost quickly and is not earned back quickly.
 

Al A Bama

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At this point, I could not give a rip about Bashar Assad. He is a menace only to the Syrians. Daesh, on the other hand, is a menace to the world.
ISIS, then ISIL, and now Daesh? Does this administration actually know what to call this group of EVIL combatants?
 

Tidewater

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ISIS, then ISIL, and now Daesh? Does this administration actually know what to call this group of EVIL combatants?
Daesh comes form the acronym in Arabic.
From what I heard, the administration was looking into what to call these jokers and calling them ISIS meant that if you googled the term, you would get a female superhero. (Can't say whether that is in act true, however).
I don't care for ISIL because it concedes the Levant to them, which I am not ready to do.
Plus, Daesh has some insulting connotations in Arabic, and it would be hard to find an organization worthier of mockery.
 

Jon

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Daesh comes form the acronym in Arabic.
From what I heard, the administration was looking into what to call these jokers and calling them ISIS meant that if you googled the term, you would get a female superhero. (Can't say whether that is in act true, however).
I don't care for ISIL because it concedes the Levant to them, which I am not ready to do.
Plus, Daesh has some insulting connotations in Arabic, and it would be hard to find an organization worthier of mockery.
Isis was a female DC hero in the 70's


It also was the name of the private Spy Agency in Archer
 

TIDE-HSV

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Daesh comes form the acronym in Arabic.
From what I heard, the administration was looking into what to call these jokers and calling them ISIS meant that if you googled the term, you would get a female superhero. (Can't say whether that is in act true, however).
I don't care for ISIL because it concedes the Levant to them, which I am not ready to do.
Plus, Daesh has some insulting connotations in Arabic, and it would be hard to find an organization worthier of mockery.
I've gone to using Daesh, for the reasons you cited. My conundrum is that I don't see anything but another power vacuum if we do defeat them. We've already proven our, um, skill at "nation-building," which seems to consist mostly of pocket-lining for those who've positioned themselves appropriately in the cash flow stream. Maybe the best solution is just to sort of wage war against them continually. That would make numerous groups, here and abroad, on both sides, happy...
 

Tidewater

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I've gone to using Daesh, for the reasons you cited. My conundrum is that I don't see anything but another power vacuum if we do defeat them. We've already proven our, um, skill at "nation-building," which seems to consist mostly of pocket-lining for those who've positioned themselves appropriately in the cash flow stream. Maybe the best solution is just to sort of wage war against them continually. That would make numerous groups, here and abroad, on both sides, happy...
You may be right. The Marshall Plan worked (after a fashion) because the people of the affected countries had a culture in which a proper sense of community and a willingness to work already existed. (Germans in the summer of 1945, before Marshall, were lining up to clear piles of rubble and try to get Germany back on her feet. They were just not going to let their communities continue to look like that. Same with the Dutch, the French, the Brits).
In Iraq and Afghanistan do not seem to have either characteristic. They do not have that sense of community that Europeans in 1945 did, and they do not seem to be willing to perform physical work for the good of the community. It seems to me that Iraqis can not come close to that level of community except under the compulsion of a dictator like Saddam. Afghanistan has not had anything like that since Alexander or perhaps Akbar the Great.
Again, culture matters.
 
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81usaf92

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You may be right. The Marshall Plan worked (after a fashion) because the people of the affected countries had a culture in which a proper sense of community and a willingness to work already existed. (Germans in the summer of 1945, before Marshall, were lining up to clear piles of rubble and try to get Germany back on her feet. They were just not going to let their communities continue to look like that. Same with the Dutch, the French, the Brits).
In Iraq and Afghanistan do not seem to have either characteristic. They do not have that sense of community that Europeans in 1945 did, and they do not seem to be willing to perform physical work for the good of the community. It seems to me that Iraqis can not come close to that level of community except under the compulsion of a dictator like Saddam. Afghanistan has not had anything like that since Alexander or perhaps Akbar the Great.
Again, culture matters.
Looking over the wire in Afghanistan, it looks like you are watching a history channel special on the Crusades, and aside from the few western upgrades they pretty much live that way.

To your point about Alexander... That is mostly true because Alexander laid down the law against them. Afghanistan at that time was the last ditch effort to preserve the Persian Empire by Bessus. Bessus believed the Aryan tribes would shock Alexander with their culture and the Hindu Kush would destroy his armies. Neither happened. When Alexander entered a town near present day Kandahar, there were people throwing out bodies for the dogs to eat and a bunch of other things. It was used to shock Alexander, but Alexander had every man, woman, and Child killed and displayed in that town. He probably won the war in Bactria that day because it shocked them. I believe as cruel as the Soviets could be that if we didnt economically intervene Afghanistan wouldve fallen. The 'backwater' Muslim nations are like this, and cant be negotiated with except by a reasonable amount of force.
 

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