Link: More Trouble at Florida State?
- Thread starter alwayshavebeen
- Start date
Sorry. This is the ultimate in rationalization, minimization, and deflection. The subject at hand is FSU and a systemic issues throughout the university administration, athletic department and police and legal system.
Does that mean that what happens at other places/institutions isn't important? No. But how does talking about what happens there address the current problem at Florida State? It doesn't.
You want to fix the problems everywhere? Yes, well so do I. But the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step. And that first step is holding those at FSU responsible for their actions. Then we go on to the others.
A sense of entitlement among young people is way too common. Just ask any teacher, professor, or school administrator at any level how it's evolved over the past 20 years. And it's compounded for a lot of football players. Even Saban says one of the hardest things he has to do is "un-recruit" the egos when they hit campus.
We've certainly had our share of thugs, so we can't throw a lot of rocks about recruiting them onto campus. The difference between FSU and a lot of other schools is the combination of several factors:
-- It's been going on a loooonnngg time.
-- The numbers are huge
-- There are no material consequences for the behavior
-- On the off chance that publicity (almost always from media sources outside Tallahassee) forces legal action, the players get top-flight counsel pro bono, and the local law enforcement loses interest quickly.
These are not one-off isolated incidents. It's a pattern of repeated behavior over years, if not decades. Some of this sort of stuff happens at every major program. Where FSU stands out is the severity of the violations, the number of incidents, the length of time over which they've been repeated, and the lack of consequences.
All four of the UA players who beat two students a few years ago were removed from school, not just the football team. Three of them went through the legal system. One was allowed back on the team, but only after a year of exile in JUCO. I didn't agree with allowing him back, and said so repeatedly on this forum. But that's Saban's call. I also didn't think Jonathan Taylor (the transfer from UGA who was still under indictment for problems in Athens, then got into yet another domestic incident in Tuscaloosa) should have been signed. But when he stepped out of line, he was immediately removed from school, not just the football team. So in all cases, there were consequences that involved removal from school and/or the football team either permanently or for a meaningful period of time.
Yes, Tallahassee is different. FSU and the Tallahassee PD turn a willful blind eye with a frequency and to a degree far beyond anything I know of at other college campuses.
We've certainly had our share of thugs, so we can't throw a lot of rocks about recruiting them onto campus. The difference between FSU and a lot of other schools is the combination of several factors:
-- It's been going on a loooonnngg time.
-- The numbers are huge
-- There are no material consequences for the behavior
-- On the off chance that publicity (almost always from media sources outside Tallahassee) forces legal action, the players get top-flight counsel pro bono, and the local law enforcement loses interest quickly.
These are not one-off isolated incidents. It's a pattern of repeated behavior over years, if not decades. Some of this sort of stuff happens at every major program. Where FSU stands out is the severity of the violations, the number of incidents, the length of time over which they've been repeated, and the lack of consequences.
All four of the UA players who beat two students a few years ago were removed from school, not just the football team. Three of them went through the legal system. One was allowed back on the team, but only after a year of exile in JUCO. I didn't agree with allowing him back, and said so repeatedly on this forum. But that's Saban's call. I also didn't think Jonathan Taylor (the transfer from UGA who was still under indictment for problems in Athens, then got into yet another domestic incident in Tuscaloosa) should have been signed. But when he stepped out of line, he was immediately removed from school, not just the football team. So in all cases, there were consequences that involved removal from school and/or the football team either permanently or for a meaningful period of time.
Yes, Tallahassee is different. FSU and the Tallahassee PD turn a willful blind eye with a frequency and to a degree far beyond anything I know of at other college campuses.
Lets see if I remember right the Tallahassee PD Detectives told the girl not to press charges,
because this was a college football town and things would not go well or end well for her.
Now if charges weren't forthcoming how was the coach or staff supposed to know of the incident?
Don';t get me wrong I despise Winston, I personally think he did it, he did too much and got away with just about anything he wanted to (well except for Crab Legs).
I never cared for Fisher all that much to begin with, but when he started protecting the guy at every turn I lost total respect for him!
I told friends before he was drafted that if the Buc's drafted him, I would not be purchasing season tickets again!
Guess what I didn't and haven't been to a game and haven't even watched a buc's game and won't...
if it had been YOUR daughter, what would be your motivation? Justice, perhaps...?
Hold it! I spoke out all backwards and used phrases that were misleading. I can see that when I re-read the first post. I was not defending FSU! I'm angry and appalled! I posted again with a link to a video called "The Hunting Ground". Go back and watch it. I am not even remotely suggesting that anybody cut Florida State any slack! What I was trying to say, obviously very badly, is that we shouldn't look at ONE place, say "that's horrendous and move on. I think we need to see this as a starting point and genuinely believe that this is just one rat's nest in a terrible trail of rat's nests. I fear that this is happening in many places and this is just one of them. We need to investigate even further and bring all *#%% down on it whenever such things are discovered. I'm sorry that I was so unclear. I gave everyone the idea that I was saying the OPPOSITE of what I meant! I am just now getting back to read this thread again and, whoa! Believe me, I am not sticking up for FSU! I'm outraged over it all!
I'm not rationalizing. I'm pointing it out. I'm also pointing out that those of us who are connected to FSU are enormously angry that this is the way the University and the police are handling something so awful! My point was that we should also find out where else this is going on and to what extent. Yes! Make FSU an example by nailing them to the wall! I'm deeply concerned that this is not the only campus or only team where this kind of crud is happening. I agree: "the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step", I just pray that we won't take that step and stall out. Let's not be myopic, single out the one college where it's glaring and then just look away. Sorry for my rants, but I've been worried about this stuff for a while now. My friends and I have had these discussions and concerns for years.
No. See, again, I put it badly. I don't know why this person spoke up. I am assuming people were afraid to before now. Don't you wonder what the heck has been going on all this time to keep people from coming forward? This is just plain frightening to me! My daughter WAS a student there! Some of my friends have daughters there right now. But I have friends with kids at many different schools and we are all wondering....how many colleges have this kind of policy and to what extremes do they go to keep it in place?!
I agree. 3 things. 1. This thread topic 2. LSU's arrogance 3. Jimbo doing Franny talk, I am happy, FSU is a great place, FSU has been good to me, but nothing concrete about being the coach next year. I know Sexton is involved, either he is making a play for more money or he's going to LSU. I am hoping that LSU gets played.
@Maudiemae - I don't think that anyone is suggesting that FSU is the only place where this type of thing is happening, or even necessarily the worst place. But this is a football board, and it is clear that this is a problem within the culture of the FSU football program.
The article makes it clear that these girls chose not to come forward because they would have to deal with students and fans at FSU who would automatically assume that they were making this up just because the accused were football players. It also made it clear that these players were getting immediate benefit of legal assistance from the school. So, according to a member of the staff at FSU whose job it is to protect these girls, the school is doing something very wrong specifically to protect its football program at the expense of the girls being attacked. That is probably not happening everywhere. Goodness, I hope it isn't.
The article makes it clear that these girls chose not to come forward because they would have to deal with students and fans at FSU who would automatically assume that they were making this up just because the accused were football players. It also made it clear that these players were getting immediate benefit of legal assistance from the school. So, according to a member of the staff at FSU whose job it is to protect these girls, the school is doing something very wrong specifically to protect its football program at the expense of the girls being attacked. That is probably not happening everywhere. Goodness, I hope it isn't.
Above, I would think not. It would be hard to imagine that AD's and Presidents, with daughters, would allow that. FSU is always in the shadows, they have been very good at that through the years of success. They would have been exposed if they had joined the SEC, but they can get away with it in being in the ACC for some reason, where most schools concentrate on basketball and little ill will towards football opponents.
She was lead to bel;ieve that the police were doing just process...and then finally her attorney said that something isn't right here...:cool2:
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