OK, I've changed my mind. No Syrian refugees!

bobstod

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Oct 13, 1999
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Are we as individuals and Christians obligated to help the poor and dispossessed? Jesus said we are. But is our country obligated to admit Islamic refugees? Most here and across the country say no, and I have now joined their number.

I have spent some time researching the Muslim culture, in countries mostly Muslim, and in countries mostly Christian. They scare me. It goes against my natural inclination not to put people in categories. Labels are more often unjust than fair consideration would warrant, so I have been willing to think that Muslims are just people who worship a different God than me. However, in comparing the cultures, I find some alarming differences. We as Christians follow the example of Paul and Barnabas and Peter; we take the message of Christ's hope of salvation to whoever will listen, and try to convince them of The Way. We don't, however, think it proper to use violence or the threat of violence to bring them into the flock. Jesus never said that it's OK to just kill those who won't convert. Mohammad did. No, he didn't say it was OK. He said it was a duty.

What is going on in Europe right now is an event of biblical proportions. The Old Testament spends thousands of words on the destruction of the Temple and the Exile of the Israelites to Babylonia. That was 2500 years ago, and we still study that event. We are seeing MILLIONS of Muslims leave Africa and the Middle East to settle in non-Muslim nations. They live an entirely different kind of lifestyle than the people in those European nations; and they have a God-given obligation to see that Islam is the dominant religion there. Their religion allows them to have four wives. The children of those wives will be Muslims, and will be taught Mohammad's ideas of justice.

I don't want that happening there, and I sure don't want it happening here. If there is a way to refuse immigration to ALL Muslims, I think we should seek it. That makes me a bigot, and I hate that...but that is where I am today.
 

ValuJet

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Sep 28, 2000
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You are not a bigot for wanting to protect your home and your family. Despite what the current American president says.
 

MDBSnare

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I am, however curious, bobstod....are you a biblical literalist? Meaning strict literal belief of the Bible as it is?
 

selmaborntidefan

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I'm more than a little wary of anyone from the left (in particular) invoking God/Jesus to accomplish their political agenda. These clowns invoke God/Jesus for climate change and 'taking care of the poor' (they might ought to do a little checking on that passage about how if you don't work you don't eat, but I digress)

There's probably (not) a difference in that and right-wingers using God/Jesus to argue social issues - but God, if I know what it is.

Here's a great idea - we're not a theocracy. Believe it or not, God's reputation isn't ruined by gay guys and gals getting married. So why don't we retain the right to practice religion UP TO AND INCLUDING excluding someone from the church simply because (fill in the blank) and just everybody live and let live? (I've never been able to figure out why we suddenly nowadays have folks insisting Rome, for example, recognize gay marriage - because who in their right mind demands to stay where they're being told 'we don't want you?').

Besides - there was a jumper at White House today and I don't see the Junior Messiah inviting that guy in out of the cold.
 

bobstod

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Oh, and thanks for the votes that I'm not a bigot. I really don't know what God has in mind for me on this question, but I will be asking Him for guidance. For now, I am really concerned for the future of the world if Islam figures strongly in that future. I have to strengthen my faith that God will prevail over what I begin to see as an evil belief system; and one that is growing way too fast for my liking....
 

bobstod

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I'm more than a little wary of anyone from the left (in particular) invoking God/Jesus to accomplish their political agenda. These clowns invoke God/Jesus for climate change and 'taking care of the poor' (they might ought to do a little checking on that passage about how if you don't work you don't eat, but I digress)

There's probably (not) a difference in that and right-wingers using God/Jesus to argue social issues - but God, if I know what it is.

Here's a great idea - we're not a theocracy. Believe it or not, God's reputation isn't ruined by gay guys and gals getting married. So why don't we retain the right to practice religion UP TO AND INCLUDING excluding someone from the church simply because (fill in the blank) and just everybody live and let live? (I've never been able to figure out why we suddenly nowadays have folks insisting Rome, for example, recognize gay marriage - because who in their right mind demands to stay where they're being told 'we don't want you?').

Besides - there was a jumper at White House today and I don't see the Junior Messiah inviting that guy in out of the cold.
I'm not a big fan of anyone using God/Jesus to accomplish their political agenda either. Did you perceive something in my post (or the one before it about the Christian response to ISIS) wherein I did that? I thought I kept my Christian views focused on the issues, and kept the secular view apart. At least I tried to.

Certainly in this post I'm not using Christ to support or further some political objective. I think I'm out of line with Jesus' teachings now.

Are you OK tonight, Selma? You post seems strange and unfocused and unnecessarily aggressive.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I'm not a big fan of anyone using God/Jesus to accomplish their political agenda either. Did you perceive something in my post (or the one before it about the Christian response to ISIS) wherein I did that? I thought I kept my Christian views focused on the issues, and kept the secular view apart. At least I tried to.

Certainly in this post I'm not using Christ to support or further some political objective. I think I'm out of line with Jesus' teachings now.

Are you OK tonight, Selma? You post seems strange and unfocused and unnecessarily aggressive.
No, I'm agreeing with you. Quite vociferously in fact.
 

Tidewater

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When the president said it was "not American" to concern ourselves with the religion of an asylum-seeker, he was incorrect.
First off, we have to know the religion of some one claiming asylum based on religious persecution:
Asylum seeker: "I'm being persecuted because of my religion.
US official": "Really, what religion do you practice?"
Asylum seeker: "That's none of your business."

Second, I would be open to Christian asylum seekers from Syria because they truly are being persecuted. And to show this is not a religious test, I would also be open to atheist asylum seekers. There are, I'm fairly certain, not Christians in Daesh, and I am fairly certain there are no atheists. This is not a religious test, it is being rational.
 

TideEngineer08

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Oh, and thanks for the votes that I'm not a bigot. I really don't know what God has in mind for me on this question, but I will be asking Him for guidance. For now, I am really concerned for the future of the world if Islam figures strongly in that future. I have to strengthen my faith that God will prevail over what I begin to see as an evil belief system; and one that is growing way too fast for my liking....
I think you should go back and read the passage where Jesus throws the money changers out of the temple. There are lines you do not cross even with Him. And there are measures even He took when folks crossed them.
 

Bamaro

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It just seems to make more sense to me for the refugees to go to somewhere way closer than thousands of miles away across an ocean, not to mention the security issue of unwanteds slipping in.
 

cbi1972

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When the president said it was "not American" to concern ourselves with the religion of an asylum-seeker, he was incorrect.
First off, we have to know the religion of some one claiming asylum based on religious persecution:
Asylum seeker: "I'm being persecuted because of my religion.
US official": "Really, what religion do you practice?"
Asylum seeker: "That's none of your business."

Second, I would be open to Christian asylum seekers from Syria because they truly are being persecuted. And to show this is not a religious test, I would also be open to atheist asylum seekers. There are, I'm fairly certain, not Christians in Daesh, and I am fairly certain there are no atheists. This is not a religious test, it is being rational.
They are even worse to the wrong kind of Muslim.
 

ValuJet

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Sep 28, 2000
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It just seems to make more sense to me for the refugees to go to somewhere way closer than thousands of miles away across an ocean, not to mention the security issue of unwanteds slipping in.
"Makes sense" is your key phrase there. The last poll I saw this morning indicated 67% of Americans are opposed to this. Once again Obama is out of the mainstream with his radical "transformation."

More to your point, it would be a more reasonable proposition to resettle them closer to home in a country in which Islam is the predominant religion. Why bring them into a place in which there is going to be natural conflict and aggression...or worse? It appears this is not compassion but something much worse by design.
 
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CajunCrimson

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It's ok to change your mind.

Liberals are liberals until someone is trying to kill you and there is a gun in the drawer.
 

OreBama

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Sep 26, 2005
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I'm glad bobstod finally came around and admitted it. There is nothing wrong with humility and changing one's position when pertinent information is presented. I wish more people would do the same as it is increasingly rare these days.

I never saw the upside to taking in the Syrian refugees, but I do see a great deal of potential problems.
 

bobstod

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Even when I thought it was our Christian duty to take a certain number of refugees, I also thought that establishing some safe zones in Islamic nations close to Syria was the way to go. I still hope something can be done in that line when we put together a working coalition which includes countries in the affected region. It just makes more sense, as Bamaro said. Now, however, I am much more convinced that is the way to go, since I feel strongly that large numbers of Islamic immigrants to any non-Islamic state is a recipe for disaster. I would like to see new lines drawn in the Middle East, taking ethnic areas into much better consideration. Those borders were thrown together without any rational thought or concern for the future. Then, once that is settled, whatever region gets named Syria should repatriate all those who fled, and the countries where they found refuge should expedite their departure. Send 'em back to live with other Muslims and get them off the dole in your country...
 

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