People say "OU has changed since the Texas game"

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Loam

All-SEC
Oct 20, 2014
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I don't see it. If you go by scores, they are similar before and after the Texas loss. Oklahoma didn't get "better" offensively. They just hit the meat of that Big 12 schedule where defenses progressively got worse. They almost lost to a TCU team in Norman that was down several starters (including their Heisman discussion QB) - It took a tipped pass on a 2 point conversion to pull that win out.

I think the Sooners are a typical Big 12 team that can score a lot of points and their defense is suspect and can be scored on as well.

The key for us beating them, is stopping Perine and Mixon. If we stop their running game and make Mayfield their entire offense, we'll beat them. Their WR's outside of Shepard are average to below average.
 

CullmanTide

Hall of Fame
Jan 7, 2008
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Cullman, Al
I don't see it. If you go by scores, they are similar before and after the Texas loss. Oklahoma didn't get "better" offensively. They just hit the meat of that Big 12 schedule where defenses progressively got worse. They almost lost to a TCU team in Norman that was down several starters (including their Heisman discussion QB) - It took a tipped pass on a 2 point conversion to pull that win out.

I think the Sooners are a typical Big 12 team that can score a lot of points and their defense is suspect and can be scored on as well.

The key for us beating them, is stopping Perine and Mixon. If we stop their running game and make Mayfield their entire offense, we'll beat them. Their WR's outside of Shepard are average to below average.
They are better just as Alabama has gotten better after the Mississippi loss.
 

TideFan in AU

Hall of Fame
If Tennessee doesn't implode in the 2nd half, we aren't even talking about this. OU has beat a bunch of bad teams, and played the 3 best teams on their schedule with their backup QB's. Derrick Henry run wild on them 2 years ago as a untested true freshman with a far less effective run blocking O-line, and we had a defense that wasn't half as good as this year. Texas' D-line dominated them in that game, and Texas may not a have a guy that would crack our 3 deep this year.
 

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
20,852
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Tuscaloosa
They're a really good football team. Very aggressive defensively which leads to some boom or bust tendencies but that is a good way to play in that offensive landscape. The actually grade out really well in defensive efficiency metrics which account for the differences in pace of play. Alabama is #1 in defensive FPI while Oklahoma is #4. Considering our issues with pass protection at times, I think they're a difficult matchup for our offense if we can't establish and stick with the run game. The way they score kinda forces you into passing a bit more which exposes you to their pass rush more.
 

Rush

All-American
Jul 5, 2011
3,190
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They're a really good football team. Very aggressive defensively which leads to some boom or bust tendencies but that is a good way to play in that offensive landscape. The actually grade out really well in defensive efficiency metrics which account for the differences in pace of play. Alabama is #1 in defensive FPI while Oklahoma is #4. Considering our issues with pass protection at times, I think they're a difficult matchup for our offense if we can't establish and stick with the run game. The way they score kinda forces you into passing a bit more which exposes you to their pass rush more.

Well said...
 

WishIwasInBama

1st Team
Jul 17, 2005
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Okinawa Japan
I have a really hard time with all the Big 12 teams.
Oklahoma is good because the beat Baylor, Oklahoma State, and TCU.
TCU is good because they beat Baylor.
Baylor is good because they beat Oklahoma State.
Oklahoma State is good because they beat TCU.

What if TCU wasn’t really that good (Beat Texas Tech 55-52, Kansas 23-17)
What if Baylor wasn’t really that good (played a high school schedule and lost to 2 of the 3 decent teams they played against)
What about Oklahoma State, they almost lost to Iowa State for goodness sake.

I don’t really know what this all proves but in my opinion TCU and Baylor was highly, highly overrated. If you take them out of the equation to make a team “elite” by beating them then you lose a significant portion of the hype that drove the rankings. Kinda puts Oklahoma in the Iowa category if you ask me and well behind Michigan State.
 

Loam

All-SEC
Oct 20, 2014
1,165
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I'm talking offensively. People say that OU's offense has gotten better as the season went along since that loss to Texas. Stats and scores from before and after show differently. Its all the same to me.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,587
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I'm talking offensively. People say that OU's offense has gotten better as the season went along since that loss to Texas. Stats and scores from before and after show differently. Its all the same to me.
I don't follow them closely enough to be sure, but Mayfield seems to be making fewer mistakes lately.
 

scoretide

Suspended
Nov 26, 2010
480
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Boaz, Alabama
I Think the NC GAME should be BAMA & OU !. But anything can happen . Don't be surprised if Clemson loses to north Carolina. And I think we struggle with florida, and pull away late
 

TideFan in AU

Hall of Fame
I think OU is a good team, but I think Derrick Henry may have 3000 yards against the defenses they've played. Their defensive competition has been truly terrible.

Akron - 17th
Tennessee - 46th
Tulsa - 124th
West Virginia - 60th
Texas - 107th
Kansas St - 100th
Texas Tech - 125th
Kansas - 127th
Iowa St - 108th
Baylor - 66th
TCU - 67th
Oklahoma St - 94th
 

TouchThatThang

All-SEC
Feb 8, 2014
1,161
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Remember how amazing OU's offense looked in 2008, and then how they could only muster 14 points against UF in the BCSNCG? This could be a similar story...or it could be the 2014 Sugar Bowl...
 

GratefulSooner

BamaNation Citizen
Nov 30, 2015
28
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I don't see it. If you go by scores, they are similar before and after the Texas loss. Oklahoma didn't get "better" offensively. They just hit the meat of that Big 12 schedule where defenses progressively got worse.
OU came into the season with a new O-coordinator, new QB and a new O-line. Perine struggled to run the ball in 4 of the first 5 games, and the offense bogged down consistently. Changes were made following the Texas loss on the O-line, and younger more talented players replaced older guys who had been backups in years past. Since then both pass protection and the run game have improved dramatically. The offense which bogged down often early in the season has never been stopped since, except for the 2nd half against TCU when Mayfield was out, and Perine ad Mixon were both on the sideline with ankle injuries.

The idea that Oklahoma has played softer defenses as the season wore on is not born out by critical analysis.

The only way to properly judge how good defenses are between different leagues is to look at the efficiency rankings. Using a metric like "total defense" is flawed on many levels. Total defense does not account for strength of competition, or differences in the number of plays between no huddle offenses and slower paced offenses.

Many Big12 fans falsely believe that the SEC offenses are terrible as shown by the total offense stats. The other day I saw some Texas fans discussing Richt's defenses. One pointed out that Texas has played 5 top-10 offenses while Georgia has played zero top-40 offenses. Moreover, Georgia's defense got to feast on "bottom feeders" such as #88 Kentucky, #95 Auburn, #98 South Carolina, #102 Florida, #115 Vandy, #125 Mizzou....

The flaw in this line of reasoning is that total offense/defense stats don't take into account quality of competition or differences in the number of plays run. A league that is relatively strong in total offense or defense will be relatively weak in the other. It is nearly impossible for a league to be strong in both. Since Alabama plays in a great defensive league and doesn't run lots of no huddle, it will be nearly impossible for Alabama's offense to rank a the top in total offense - even if Alabama has one of the best offenses in the country like it did in 2012. Likewise, since Oklahoma plays in an offensive league with lots of no huddle, it is nearly impossible to rank at the top in total defense - like we did in Stoops' early days before the league's offensive identity changed.

If you look at efficiency rankings, you quickly see that Big12 defenses aren't as bad as many SEC fans assume...And SEC offenses aren't as bad as many Big12 fans assume.

It isn't really true that eight SEC teams have offenses that aren't in the top-70. It isn't really true that Akron has a better defense than most SEC teams, and is the strongest defense OU has played...And it isn't really true that OU faced progressively weaker defenses.
 

92tide

TideFans Legend
May 9, 2000
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OU came into the season with a new O-coordinator, new QB and a new O-line. Perine struggled to run the ball in 4 of the first 5 games, and the offense bogged down consistently. Changes were made following the Texas loss on the O-line, and younger more talented players replaced older guys who had been backups in years past. Since then both pass protection and the run game have improved dramatically. The offense which bogged down often early in the season has never been stopped since, except for the 2nd half against TCU when Mayfield was out, and Perine ad Mixon were both on the sideline with ankle injuries.

The idea that Oklahoma has played softer defenses as the season wore on is not born out by critical analysis.

The only way to properly judge how good defenses are between different leagues is to look at the efficiency rankings. Using a metric like "total defense" is flawed on many levels. Total defense does not account for strength of competition, or differences in the number of plays between no huddle offenses and slower paced offenses.

Many Big12 fans falsely believe that the SEC offenses are terrible as shown by the total offense stats. The other day I saw some Texas fans discussing Richt's defenses. One pointed out that Texas has played 5 top-10 offenses while Georgia has played zero top-40 offenses. Moreover, Georgia's defense got to feast on "bottom feeders" such as #88 Kentucky, #95 Auburn, #98 South Carolina, #102 Florida, #115 Vandy, #125 Mizzou....

The flaw in this line of reasoning is that total offense/defense stats don't take into account quality of competition or differences in the number of plays run. A league that is relatively strong in total offense or defense will be relatively weak in the other. It is nearly impossible for a league to be strong in both. Since Alabama plays in a great defensive league and doesn't run lots of no huddle, it will be nearly impossible for Alabama's offense to rank a the top in total offense - even if Alabama has one of the best offenses in the country like it did in 2012. Likewise, since Oklahoma plays in an offensive league with lots of no huddle, it is nearly impossible to rank at the top in total defense - like we did in Stoops' early days before the league's offensive identity changed.

If you look at efficiency rankings, you quickly see that Big12 defenses aren't as bad as many SEC fans assume...And SEC offenses aren't as bad as many Big12 fans assume.

It isn't really true that eight SEC teams have offenses that aren't in the top-70. It isn't really true that Akron has a better defense than most SEC teams, and is the strongest defense OU has played...And it isn't really true that OU faced progressively weaker defenses.
welcome. this is what makes the post season so much fun
 

BamaAlum97

1st Team
Dec 13, 2002
335
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Tulsa, OK
I don't know what all of the statistics say...but according to the "eye test" they improved and matured as a team throughout the year.
 

UntouchableCrew

All-SEC
Nov 30, 2015
1,530
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The only way to properly judge how good defenses are between different leagues is to look at the efficiency rankings. Using a metric like "total defense" is flawed on many levels. Total defense does not account for strength of competition, or differences in the number of plays between no huddle offenses and slower paced offenses.

Many Big12 fans falsely believe that the SEC offenses are terrible as shown by the total offense stats. The other day I saw some Texas fans discussing Richt's defenses. One pointed out that Texas has played 5 top-10 offenses while Georgia has played zero top-40 offenses. Moreover, Georgia's defense got to feast on "bottom feeders" such as #88 Kentucky, #95 Auburn, #98 South Carolina, #102 Florida, #115 Vandy, #125 Mizzou....

The flaw in this line of reasoning is that total offense/defense stats don't take into account quality of competition or differences in the number of plays run. A league that is relatively strong in total offense or defense will be relatively weak in the other. It is nearly impossible for a league to be strong in both.
Excellent post, and completely accurate.

It's part of the reason playoff/bowl season is so exciting. We get to see these interesting match-ups play out on the field.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,587
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I think that the best way to measure relative strengths of teams is to look at how well the teams that they play against perform vs. their average production. Team "Z" scores 40 PPG, but against Alabama they only scored 25 points - Alabama held team "Z" 15 points below their average.

Over the course of a season you can produce a reliable metric that you can apply to possible future opponents on offense and defense. I haven't done this yet, but will do this once the playoff is set. It doesn't take into account anomalies that happen that break down the norm (2 punt returns for TDs in a game when a team has otherwise not allowed this sort of thing to happen would wreck this, for instance), but it accounts for most differences assuming the sample size is adequate.

You have to be sure to account for similarities in offensive schemes. For instance, if a potential opponent runs a spread offense, you would only include past spread offenses faced in the formula. Same used to apply to defensive schemes, but much less so today.
 

GeorgiaTider

All-SEC
Oct 30, 2005
1,565
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OU came into the season with a new O-coordinator, new QB and a new O-line. Perine struggled to run the ball in 4 of the first 5 games, and the offense bogged down consistently. Changes were made following the Texas loss on the O-line, and younger more talented players replaced older guys who had been backups in years past. Since then both pass protection and the run game have improved dramatically. The offense which bogged down often early in the season has never been stopped since, except for the 2nd half against TCU when Mayfield was out, and Perine ad Mixon were both on the sideline with ankle injuries.

The idea that Oklahoma has played softer defenses as the season wore on is not born out by critical analysis.

The only way to properly judge how good defenses are between different leagues is to look at the efficiency rankings. Using a metric like "total defense" is flawed on many levels. Total defense does not account for strength of competition, or differences in the number of plays between no huddle offenses and slower paced offenses.

Many Big12 fans falsely believe that the SEC offenses are terrible as shown by the total offense stats. The other day I saw some Texas fans discussing Richt's defenses. One pointed out that Texas has played 5 top-10 offenses while Georgia has played zero top-40 offenses. Moreover, Georgia's defense got to feast on "bottom feeders" such as #88 Kentucky, #95 Auburn, #98 South Carolina, #102 Florida, #115 Vandy, #125 Mizzou....

The flaw in this line of reasoning is that total offense/defense stats don't take into account quality of competition or differences in the number of plays run. A league that is relatively strong in total offense or defense will be relatively weak in the other. It is nearly impossible for a league to be strong in both. Since Alabama plays in a great defensive league and doesn't run lots of no huddle, it will be nearly impossible for Alabama's offense to rank a the top in total offense - even if Alabama has one of the best offenses in the country like it did in 2012. Likewise, since Oklahoma plays in an offensive league with lots of no huddle, it is nearly impossible to rank at the top in total defense - like we did in Stoops' early days before the league's offensive identity changed.

If you look at efficiency rankings, you quickly see that Big12 defenses aren't as bad as many SEC fans assume...And SEC offenses aren't as bad as many Big12 fans assume.

It isn't really true that eight SEC teams have offenses that aren't in the top-70. It isn't really true that Akron has a better defense than most SEC teams, and is the strongest defense OU has played...And it isn't really true that OU faced progressively weaker defenses.
Good post. No smack talking. Just a well thought out football discussion.
 

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