Heisman winners Bryant should have had

81usaf92

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For joe and Kenny it is hard to find a place for them to have won a heisman out right because staubach and spurrier were the winners in the best years. Musso has probably the most legit argument out of all of them in 71. But alabama has always been about championships over heismans so who ever is using that comparison doesn't have a good argument.
 

Go Bama

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16outa17essee
I love Johnny Musso. He's the reason I went to Alabama. Be that as it may, Johnny Rodgers was the best player in college football in 1971.
 

Ole Man Dan

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Apr 21, 2008
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Namath. Agreed. Ozzie Newsome. Another agreement.

Tony Nathan. At least a nomination.

John Hannah. Has a o-lineman ever won the trophy? Hannah probably should have. Also, nomination for Dwight Stephenson.

Lee Roy Jordan. Defensive players had almost no shot even in his day. I'm still convinced he was the best player in the nation.
Great list.
 
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Go Bama

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16outa17essee
There was one game a week on TV
I'm assuming the point you're making is that it was much harder to tell who was legit and who was a poser. There was also no way for the common fan to record a game so you either saw it live of you missed it. Now we get so much more information that the Heisman is much more legitimate than during Bryant's era or even before. In those days, the talking heads were sports writers and we had no reason not to believe what they were printing.

Above I stated that Johnny Rodgers was the best player in college football in 1971. I'm basing that off seeing him in only two games against Oklahoma and Alabama. In those two games at least, he was on a different plane.
 

USCBAMA

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Sep 21, 2001
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Not a Bear boy, but Bobby Humphrey was considered a Heisman frontrunner by many national experts before missing most of his sr year with an injury. Humphrey was a great RB. Not sure he beats Barry Sanders that year, but he might have come in second ahead of Peete.
 

mittman

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Jun 19, 2009
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I think Tony Nathan was the best running back during the Bryant era
If you are basing off of later productivity in the pro's I can see Nathan being picked. I would probably go with Musso just based on how they played in college.
 

bama2112

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Nov 19, 2006
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For joe and Kenny it is hard to find a place for them to have won a heisman out right because staubach and spurrier were the winners in the best years. Musso has probably the most legit argument out of all of them in 71. But alabama has always been about championships over heismans so who ever is using that comparison doesn't have a good argument.
I agree we have always been about NC's and not the Heisman, it shows in Derrick Henry interviews to the media.
 

RammerJammer14

Hall of Fame
Aug 18, 2007
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I am too young to remember much of the Bryant era at Alabama, but my favorite player to ever come out of Alabama is John Hannah. I know that he is an offensive lineman, and I have only seen video of him in college, but I grew up watching him destroy defensive linemen in the NFL. You simply cannot play the game better than he did.
My grandpa always likes to tell me a story about how he saw John Hannah and another O-lineman park a car one day. Said they were trying to parallel park, but the spot was too tight to actually back in to, so Hannah got out, picked up the front end, and slid it into the parking spot, then went and did the same to the back. Now how true that is I don't know, but he likes to tell it every time football, Coach Bryant, or weight lifting come up in a conversation!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

gtowntide

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Mar 1, 2011
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To me it's Johnny Musso. He was one of Coach Bryant's favorites. I did not read this whole thread, but Coach Bryant said Pat Trammel (RIP) was the best player he ever coached.
 

califbamafan

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Namath for sure and the snake. We were screwed twice in 66. Stabler out of the Heisman and the national championship. But Leroy Jordan may have been the greatest player ever at Bama.
 

81usaf92

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Apr 26, 2008
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Namath for sure and the snake. We were screwed twice in 66. Stabler out of the Heisman and the national championship. But Leroy Jordan may have been the greatest player ever at Bama.
Steve spurrier won in 66. It's not a total slap in the face at that instance. One of Namath's years staubach won it so it's hard to argue against Rodger. Also it's worth noting Namath was never in the top 10 in voting.I still think Sullivan winning over musso is far and away the one that really holds water in the one bear should've had.

Also if we really need to be sore on one of our qbs not winning if, it probably should be jay barker in 94. While some will say AJ, I still think in 13 it was Winston's to lose, and in 12 Manziel just canceled him out.
 
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deliveryman35

Hall of Fame
Jul 26, 2003
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Don Hutson's senior year was the year prior to the start of the Heisman trophy. He most assuredly would have won it.

Harry Gilmer was a finalist twice and should have taken home the trophy at least once.

As for Coach Bryant's players, you all have already listed them. Namath, Stabler, Musso. They all could have won it if the circumstances were different. I do believe there was a bias against the South an in particular, Alabama, in those days. However, had Alabama had an offensive system that produced greater individual results during the 1970s, I do believe Coach Bryant would have had a Heisman winner during that time. Tony Nathan, or even one of the QBs like Todd or Rutledge would have had a good chance, but the wishbone spread out the stats.

I don't think that makes him less of a coach than Coach Saban, though. To me, he still towers over the game and I was born after he passed away. Coach Saban is getting awful close to that stature though.

You are spot on about Don Hutson. He's often forgotten because he did not play in the modern era but he arguably is STILL the best player to ever put on our jersey. In fact, to me it's not arguable.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I hate to be the wet blanket here, but the Heisman as it once was given anyway was - quite bluntly - a partisan and sick joke. While I'm glad Henry won it (though it matter somewhat less in terms of university prestige since Ingram had already won it) - and the award is much more likely nowadays to go to 'the best player,' most of the Heisman campaigns and most of the awards were regionally biased jokes. And for those who wish to deny it there IS an indisputable Eastern US bias to everything and if you don't believe me, go spend an entire football season on the West Coast in California and watch how ESPN is covering all the early games that ended while your game is playing and folks are going to sleep.

Let me give a great example before talking about the Heisman. In 1964, Brian Piccolo (yes THAT Brian Piccolo) led the nation in rushing and scoring. Most years that at least makes you a Heisman contender. Piccolo played for 5-5 Wake Forest. A guy who played in his same town (not his same school as is alleged in "Brian's Song," the 1971 version) at public high school, Tucker Fredericksen, went to Auburn. You also have to remember that players - most of them - played BOTH WAYS in 1964, which is how offensive lineman Dick Butkus could finish third in the voting. But compare the stats - Piccolo had 252 attempts for 1044 yards and 15 TDs (4.1 ypc) while Tucker had 129 attempts for 576 yards and 5 TDs (4.5 ypc). Piccolo's team was 5-5, Auburn was 6-4.

Guess who finished higher in the Heisman vote? And guess what? If Piccolo had played for USC or Notre Dame, he would have won it. The winner was John Huarte of the Irish. What makes this amazing is that Huarte's teammate, Jack Snow, finished fifth - a situation that almost always will cost a team when they have two contenders. But Piccolo was selected for the AP All-American second team.......on DEFENSE. In his autobiography ("A Short Season" by Jeanne Morris), Piccolo pointed out that he only played two plays on defense in 1964 - and one one of them, he kept a touchdown drive going by getting flagged for a 15-yard penalty for defensive holding!!! He said it was why an honest guy couldn't be taken in by those things. (Btw - for those wondering - Kansas Comet Gale Sayers was not in the top ten voting in any of his three years despite having a 7.1 ypc average in 1962).

But onto why Bryant's teams never really had many contenders. Some of this has been covered.

For starters, the allegation of racism, while true, probably played very little in the voting for the Heisman. For all the hub-bub about racism and the 1966 title, anyone want to tell me how many black players Notre Dame had? Try one!! (Alan Page) Yes, I will grant the bad press about the state in 1962-64 no doubt did not help. Spurrier won it on an all-white Florida team in 1966.

But let’s consider the reasons:

1) Teams did not play very many games on national television back then.

This has been touched on but prior to a lawsuit filed jointly by Georgia and Oklahoma in 1984, the NCAA held absolute power over the number of times a team could appear on television. From 1952-1984, teams were only permitted to appear on national television SIX TIMES in two seasons. Those two schools thought that violated antitrust laws and sued and won. In a rich irony, one of the two dissenting judges was Byron White, who had been an All-American college player at Colorado. The rapidly expanding cable TV industry of 1983 enabled this as well, providing the potential market. As a result of this lack of playing on TV, most folks really did not have much of an idea what went on elsewhere in the country other than reading their newspapers or listening to the radio. ESPN only came into existence in 1979, and those of us who watched it recall how insanely cheap the production values were at the very start. (“Sportscenter” was a two-hour show that was repeated most days – same broadcast – from 7am to 1pm Eastern and followed by sports almost nobody would watch today like Australian Rules Football). Thus, players who played mostly for name schools and got a lot of press won the Heisman. I still recall hearing year after year about how player X was the front-runner for the Heisman and it would always be a guy who played for a name school and was either a junior or a senior; sophs and freshmen (who could not play until 1971) were given no serious consideration prior to Herschel Walker.

2) The Heisman was a junior and senior award – period – to the guy who got hype.

This point builds on the last one. Simply look at the sophomores ever considered for the award prior to 1980 and it proves my point. There were SIX players prior to Marshall Faulk in 1992 who finished in the top three as freshmen or sophomores, five of who won it – Angelo Bertelli, Blanchard and Davis of Army during WWII (which hardly even counts), Doak Walker, and Clint Castleberry. ALL of these players were from the Eastern USA or Notre Dame except Doak Walker, and his finish as well was during WWII – which given the drastic drop in quality of college players suggests these selections were only because of the opposition. The sixth, Herschel Walker, is worth looking at because he is proof positive of what I’m alleging here.

Herschel Walker hit Georgia by storm in 1980, recruited nationally and finally settling on the Georgia Bulldogs. His freshman year he astounded everyone by rushing for 1616 yards and 15 TDs. His team was undefeated, and he was a dazzling superstar. The Heisman went to South Carolina’s George Rogers, and while it is difficult to say Rogers was an undeserving Heisman winner, the fact is that in this day and age, Walker would win it going away. Rogers led the nation in rushing with 1781 yards and had 0.1 ypc edge on Walker. However, Walker had one more touchdown and they faced each other head-to-head. While Rogers had a great game (168 yards rushing), Walker shredded the South Carolina defense (note that they were NOT in the SEC in 1980) for 219 yards. But Rogers began the year as a favorite to win it, and even in the press was the sentiment that “Walker is going to have other chances to win it” and “he’s only a freshman.” Furthermore, Walker was ruined by the fact the Heisman votes had to be in PRIOR to Georgia’s last game against Ga Tech. In the age of Internet, this would never happen. Walker proceeded to pound the Yellow Jackets for 205 yards. But when the votes were in, Rogers (the senior) won and Hugh Green (also a senior at Pitt) finished second, primarily due to media hype (most notably Pitt booster Beano Cook). Walker, who led his team to the SEC title (which was known before the voting) and an unbeaten season that culminated in a national title didn’t even finish second. Why? Because freshmen were not given serious consideration for the award. Keep in mind that Herschel was the ONLY player between 1948 and 1992 to finish in the top three as either a freshman or a sophomore. They were simply not given consideration.

Furthermore, if you actually look at some of the winners, you come to the conclusion they were given lifetime achievement awards based on previous years like Don James’s 1991 national title (or Bobby Bowden’s in 1993). Herschel is a great example. He rushed for more yards in 1982, but his ypc fell from 5.9 to 5.2. In fact, Eric Dickerson had a better year than Walker did, and he split carries with Craig James. Mike Rozier had a better year than Walker, too – but it was simply Herschel’s turn to make up for 1980.

Or look at 1973. John Cappelletti (286 for 1522, 17 TDs, 5.3 avg) won the award over Ohio State’s Archie Griffin (247 for 1577, 7 TDs, 6.4 avg). Why? Mostly because Ohio State had THREE PLAYERS finish in the top six, which is unheard of. Keep in mind that Buckeyes team went 10-0-1 and Penn State went 11-0. But Cappelletti had the little brother (Joey) who had leukemia and played for an undefeated team and DID have a very good year – and was a senior – he got the Heisman. Since Griffin was ‘only’ a sophomore, he was going to have other chances and he made the most by winning the next two, the only guy to ever do that. Fact is, Griffin was better in 1973 when he didn’t win it than he was in 1975, when he did. He had twice as many TDs and rushed nearly one yard per carry more in 1973 – but he didn’t get the hype, so he didn’t get the award.

Let’s look at one more scenario as to how hype makes the winner. In 1986, Vinny Testaverde won the Heisman. Jim Harbaugh was probably a better quarterback but Vinny won it because: a) he had finished fifth the year before; b) he played on an undefeated top-ranked team; c) Harbaugh threw for more yards against a tougher schedule but had more interceptions than touchdowns (a defensible point for VT). But the next year an incredible thing happened – a quarterback did EXACTLY what Testaverde did but didn’t win the award. Don MacPherson led Syracuse to an undefeated record in the regular season and was the nation’s leading passer. Why did he not win it? Simple. The media was falling all over themselves declaring Tim Brown, a receiver at Notre Dame, to be the greatest player ever born or don the Irish green. Keep in mind this great receiver scored all of FOUR touchdowns his senior year on an 8-4 mid-level football team. Consider the fact that the leading receiver by yardage – Ernie Jones of Indiana had over 400 more receiving yards than Brown did. Keep in mind that Indiana had the SAME RECORD as Notre Dame did. Jones had 27 more catches for 419 more yards and NINE more touchdowns (13-4)……and most of you have never even heard of him, and he didn’t even finish in the top ten in the voting. Why? Simple – he wasn’t the one who played for Notre Dame. And had MacPherson played for Notre Dame, he’d have walked away with it.

3) Bryant spread the wealth around and despite superstar players, guys leading in categories was not a common scenario.

In 1981 while running the wishbone, Alabama had six different players who had rushed for over 300 yards apiece prior to the Auburn game. If just one person had accumulated those 1800 yards, he likely would have been a Heisman finalist, although he would have lost to Marcus Allen. Bryant never really had a lot of guys who led in categories – other than national championships, of course.

Here are the top finishers under Coach Bryant at Alabama

1961 – Pat Trammell (5th)
1962 – Lee Roy Jordan (4th)
1965 – Steve Sloan (10th)
1971 – Johnny Musso (4th)
1972 – Terry Davis (5th)
1979 – Steadman Shealy (10th)

Note something as well – except for 1962 and 1971, all of those guys were quarterbacks on national title contenders/winners. And even in Musso’s case, the Tide was unbeaten going into the Orange Bowl.

The bottom line is that Coach Bryant’s style of coaching and substitution did not allow for individual stars to accumulate individual honors. Furthermore, it would have been difficult anyway because rarely was there a front-runner or even candidate returning to Alabama from the previous year. You’ll note in many Heisman votes that a guy gets a bunch of votes as a junior and then wins as a senior. Well, that’s how it used to be. Let me put it another way – Johnny Manziel would NOT have won the Heisman that he did a few years back if this were 1972 style college football, even with similar stats. Why? Well, the award was looked at as a junior/senior award.

I know I’ve rambled, but I hope you’ve found this enlightening. Fact is that like about 40 guys in the baseball Hall of Fame, there are at least 20 guys who have won the Heisman who were NOT the most deserving of it the year they won it. Names like Gino Torretta, Tim Brown, and John Cappelletti prove that conclusively. Now don’t go from here and say I said player X was terrible – the guys who won it but shouldn’t have were not terrible ballplayers, they were just given an award they had no business winning. It happens all the time.
 

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