Recruiting the Right players

CullmanTide

Hall of Fame
Jan 7, 2008
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Cullman, Al
I've heard older coaches say this for years and I'm really starting to understand the fallacy of recruiting and it seems to be getting more critical as time goes on. We are seeing it over and over where blue chip talent isn't working out because they lack the character, patience or the grit to become champions.

Cases in point:

* No other team has signed more top QB's than Texas A&M and they now have nothing because nobody wanted to work for it.

* I'm not sure if any school ever signed a class like the one Ole Miss Signed in 2013, they will leave with zero championships.

* Auburn in general, the place where five star talent goes to die.

I'm seeing repeating patterns where younger less experienced coaches are signing top rated talent, talent we are recruiting as well, it appears they are going elsewhere because of the promise of an easier path to stardom or playing time, but when times get tough, which they always will, these players do not rise to the occasion like champions do.

Meanwhile look at the four teams in the playoffs. Look at their teams, you see grit. you see players who made themselves into great players. you see coaches who are old school.

Saban has described this team as having Grit several times. Some examples.

Jacob Coker, a three star player who would not give up even after years on the bench and will end up with his feet and hands in concrete.

Kenyan Drake who arrived with Yeldon, he had no fanfare but kept fighting even when he was horrifically injured

Richard Mullaney who with less athletic talent fights for every ball thrown to him.

Michael Nysewander who came from a walkon to a hero in the LSU game

Ryan Kelly who was undersized and unwanted by Ohio State and came here, became a leader and won the Remington Trophy

Eddie Jackson a three star player that had few significant offers who went on to start at two backfield positions and overcome major injury

Jarred Reed who was going nowhere in jr college but MADE himself into a great player.

Reggie Ragland the #1 rated inside linebacker in America according to many recruiting services who sat unnoticed on the bench for two years with many calling him a "bust". Instead of quitting he got after it and won a starting job and probably a big paycheck very soon.

Grit. If I were close to the team I'm sure there would be more stories of what amazing men we have on our team. So as we watch a few five star players get away from us in December. Let's remember that it's not the ones that get away from you, it's the ones who you sign that you need to concern yourself with. and I know we will sign some more players who aren't looking for the easy path to success, who understand that nothing worth having is easy, who expect to be part of something bigger than themselves, and who have the sort of GRIT you can count on when times are tough.

Roll Tide
Honestly, you missed on much of that. Kenyan Drake came in with high expectations, Kelly chose Alabama over OSU. Mullaney is VERY athletic, Eddie Jackson had more than a few options IIRC, the OLE Miss class had it's stars but little depth and I can't remember anyone calling Ragland a bust. I guess we remember things differently.
 

glasscutter256

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Jan 31, 2009
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I agree that you want good character type guys, but a lot depends on the structure of the program. Some players flourish by having freedom and being self-motivated to improve. Others need structure and a schedule to improve.
I don't think you can call Ole Miss's recruiting class a disappointment. After all, they did beat us 2 years in a row. Their problem is the next 2 recruiting classes didn't measure up. Had it not been for a miracle 20 yd lateral in overtime against Arky, Bama might not be in the position we are in. Ole Miss would probably be the SEC champs. Trying to be objective, Hugh Freeze has got a lot out of his players. i think they play dirty and obviously inconsistent.
I think Saban does a great job of evaluating talent and character, but many times it has less to do with the individual grit and more to do with the system in place to help that individual improve. That is what makes Saban so successful.
i.e. Rolando Mclain was a star player with leadership overflowing. You get him out into the uncontrolled environment and he makes bad decisions.
Plus, we have had more than our share of players making bad decisions even with a controlled environment.
 

bamacpa

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Jul 19, 2006
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I agree with the OP that mindset and attitude are important attributes of a recruit, probably more important than 40 times. Coach Saban has done a very good job of locating the winners and providing the right sort of structure to nurture those borderline cases. Not perfect, but very good.
 

bamaslammer

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Jan 8, 2003
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Honestly, you missed on much of that. Kenyan Drake came in with high expectations, Kelly chose Alabama over OSU. Mullaney is VERY athletic, Eddie Jackson had more than a few options IIRC, the OLE Miss class had it's stars but little depth and I can't remember anyone calling Ragland a bust. I guess we remember things differently.
You're letting results cloud your memory. Drake was recruited by many school but nobody was talking about him as a star runner except for the locals who saw him play. I distinctly remember some of those people posting that we should not go to sleep on Drake but at the time all anyone wanted to talk about was Yeldon. Most expected Drake to redshirt, he did not, most expected him to move to slot receiver, he did not. Kelly may have had an offer from OSU but I don't think they were pushing for him. It's their lack of true interest that sent him south. As for ragland, the dude barely saw the field for two years and many on this board questioned if he was a bust. We expect every top rated player to immediately see the field and that's our shortcoming, not the players.

Part of my point is the chicken and the egg thing. Did a player like Ragland always have leadership and "finish" in his character and Saban magically know it or did Saban see elements of that Character in him, then emmerce him in an atmosphere that forges and strengthen those character elements into leaders and champions.

I believe it is the latter. Saban isn't 100% on his character evaluations, his failures have been way over documented, but they make headline news because they are rare. You guys can trash my argument all you want but the proof is in the results. Ole Miss signed a lot of great players and got zero championships. Make excuses for them all you want but the results speak louder. I think Freeze is not necessarily a bad coach, in fact I think he's probably brighter than some of the other younger coaches like Malzhan and Sumlin but I do question if his recruiting is focused all on getting the highest rated guys vs the RIGHT guys.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
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You're letting results cloud your memory. Drake was recruited by many school but nobody was talking about him as a star runner except for the locals who saw him play. I distinctly remember some of those people posting that we should not go to sleep on Drake but at the time all anyone wanted to talk about was Yeldon. Most expected Drake to redshirt, he did not, most expected him to move to slot receiver, he did not. Kelly may have had an offer from OSU but I don't think they were pushing for him. It's their lack of true interest that sent him south. As for ragland, the dude barely saw the field for two years and many on this board questioned if he was a bust. We expect every top rated player to immediately see the field and that's our shortcoming, not the players.
I'm sure Yeldon being a 5* and 247's second ranked RB in the class had nothing to do with that either. Drake was ranked #129 in the nation and the #5 all purpose-back by 247.

Part of my point is the chicken and the egg thing. Did a player like Ragland always have leadership and "finish" in his character and Saban magically know it or did Saban see elements of that Character in him, then emmerce him in an atmosphere that forges and strengthen those character elements into leaders and champions.
I'm sure Reggie being behind CJ Mosley and Trey DePriest had nothing to do with that, either.

I believe it is the latter. Saban isn't 100% on his character evaluations, his failures have been way over documented, but they make headline news because they are rare. You guys can trash my argument all you want but the proof is in the results.
No one is trashing your argument. We're just pointing out things aren't as simple as you want to believe.

Ole Miss signed a lot of great players and got zero championships. Make excuses for them all you want but the results speak louder. I think Freeze is not necessarily a bad coach, in fact I think he's probably brighter than some of the other younger coaches like Malzhan and Sumlin but I do question if his recruiting is focused all on getting the highest rated guys vs the RIGHT guys.
Hugh Freeze was hired in 2011. Here are the average ratings of each recruiting class according to 247:

2012: .8447
2013: .8785
2014: .8742
2015: .8783

Four year average: .8689

Freeze couldn't take one recruiting class and immediately win a national title. It takes more than that.

Compare that .8689 average to the other SEC West teams:

Alabama: .9280
Arkansas: .8440
Auburn: .8919
LSU: .8973
Mississippi State: .8593
Texas A&M: .8959

Going off those averages, Ole Miss has had the fifth best recruiting in the SEC West since Hugh Freeze arrived. Should that come as a surprise based off the results? Not at all because we know it takes more than just a few outstanding players to win the SEC, much less the national title.

Edit to add some more numbers....

Here are the SEC winning percentages for each SEC West team in those four years:

Alabama: .875
Arkansas: .281
Auburn: .406
LSU: .625
Mississippi State: .531
Ole Miss: .531
Texas A&M: .531

So Ole Miss ties for the third best winning percentage of SEC West teams during Hugh Freeze's time in Oxford while having the fifth best recruiting class according to 247Sports.
 
Last edited:

CullmanTide

Hall of Fame
Jan 7, 2008
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Cullman, Al
You're letting results cloud your memory. Drake was recruited by many school but nobody was talking about him as a star runner except for the locals who saw him play. I distinctly remember some of those people posting that we should not go to sleep on Drake but at the time all anyone wanted to talk about was Yeldon. Most expected Drake to redshirt, he did not, most expected him to move to slot receiver, he did not. Kelly may have had an offer from OSU but I don't think they were pushing for him. It's their lack of true interest that sent him south. As for ragland, the dude barely saw the field for two years and many on this board questioned if he was a bust. We expect every top rated player to immediately see the field and that's our shortcoming, not the players.

Part of my point is the chicken and the egg thing. Did a player like Ragland always have leadership and "finish" in his character and Saban magically know it or did Saban see elements of that Character in him, then emmerce him in an atmosphere that forges and strengthen those character elements into leaders and champions.

I believe it is the latter. Saban isn't 100% on his character evaluations, his failures have been way over documented, but they make headline news because they are rare. You guys can trash my argument all you want but the proof is in the results. Ole Miss signed a lot of great players and got zero championships. Make excuses for them all you want but the results speak louder. I think Freeze is not necessarily a bad coach, in fact I think he's probably brighter than some of the other younger coaches like Malzhan and Sumlin but I do question if his recruiting is focused all on getting the highest rated guys vs the RIGHT guys.
Actually my memory is fine. I just have a different point of view.
 

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