Sports Writers Are Using The Wrong Grammar When Discussing The Tide

CraigD said:

I think you are mixing examples. This year's Crimson Tide is one team, a singular unit, a collective. It's an "it", not a "they" in pronoun terms.

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That's the point though. There's not one answer. Depends on the situation and how it's being used.

I believe that when referring to a team by its nickname, collective nouns take the plural form. Thus, the Crimson Tide and the Tigers both are plural. This is why when someone asks how your team fared, one normally replies that WE or THEY won/lost, not IT won/lost. If someone asks how many first downs the Bears have, the normal reply is "They have 13 first downs." Not, "It has 13 first downs."

It's fourth and one, what will the Crimson Tide do? They're going for it! Would be pretty rare to hear anyone say IT'S going for it.

It's tough when team nicknames are singular (Crimson Tide) versus plural (Tigers); but in context you should treat them the same. And you would never say the Tigers IS playing well.

Tug Tide said:

Po-tay-to/Po-tah-to. The accepted form of "grammar" used in texting irks me a whole lot more.
Today's journalists have bigger problems, such as not fact checking what they write.

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That is true as well. At least though let your subject and predicate agree.


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bobstod said:

Just a personal preference by a charter member of the Old Farts Club.

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This made me laugh because, when I first started on Bama Nation/TideFans so many years back, I didn't consider myself to be a part of the Old Farts Club. 17-18 years later, I definitely feel like I'm a part of the Old Farts Club! :biggrin2: :biggrin2: :biggrin2:

trenda said:

That's the point though. There's not one answer. Depends on the situation and how it's being used.

I believe that when referring to a team by its nickname, collective nouns take the plural form. Thus, the Crimson Tide and the Tigers both are plural. This is why when someone asks how your team fared, one normally replies that WE or THEY won/lost, not IT won/lost. If someone asks how many first downs the Bears have, the normal reply is "They have 13 first downs." Not, "It has 13 first downs."

It's fourth and one, what will the Crimson Tide do? They're going for it! Would be pretty rare to hear anyone say IT'S going for it.

It's tough when team nicknames are singular (Crimson Tide) versus plural (Tigers); but in context you should treat them the same. And you would never say the Tigers IS playing well.

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In your case, "they" they are referring to the players with in the Tide. You wouldn't say the Tide are going for it still. You'd say the Tide is going for it.


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Grammar aside...

Associated Press STYLE (which is what journalists use widely) calls for teams and bands and most groups of people in general—even when said group's collective name appears singular—to be treated as plural in subject-verb agreement.

I'm still a professional publisher and teach in the JN dept. at Bama, but back in the day I used to write a lot of movie and music reviews. It always seemed strange to say "Bon Jovi ARE playing..." but it's stylistically correct. "Crimson Tide ARE" is correct in the same way, if the journalists/newspaper/website/TV outlet follows AP style.

While I'm lecturing and since most of you stopped reading this post and thread anyway (ha), the word "media" should always be treated as plural as well, grammatically AND stylistically. It is a plural noun. "The media ARE biased" is the correct way to say it and write it.

Okay, I'm done.

JBama_in_PCOLA said:

In your case, "they" they are referring to the players with in the Tide. You wouldn't say the Tide are going for it still. You'd say the Tide is going for it.


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Replace Tide with Bears, Lakers, Yankees, Packers and tell me if it makes sense to say IS going for it.

Don't get me wrong. It's very common to say the Tide IS going for it; and it "sounds" better. However, technically, I believe that is grammatically incorrect. Just my opinion.

I'm not willing to accept the AP as my authority for correct grammar.

bobstod said:

I'm not willing to accept the AP as my authority for correct grammar.

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Because the media ARE so biased, right?

trenda said:

Replace Tide with Bears, Lakers, Yankees, Packers and tell me if it makes sense to say IS going for it.

Don't get me wrong. It's very common to say the Tide IS going for it; and it "sounds" better. However, technically, I believe that is grammatically incorrect. Just my opinion.

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Believe me, it isn't.

If I replace it with the words you asked me to then I would say the Packers are or Bears are. Those are plural words. However, the plural for Tide is Tides. Low tide and high tide put together are tides.

Crimson Tide is one, moves as one. So it would be Tide is going for it not are.

Would you say 20th Century Fox are making a movie just because a bunch of people work there. No, you'd say it is making a movie.

Boy, I'm passionate about this.


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If you could just add a noun. The Crimson tide defensive "players" are motivated for this game. The Crimson Tide defensive unit is motivated for this game.

Sometimes you can't make Alabama singular and then sometimes you can. So it depends on message, imo

JBama_in_PCOLA said:

Believe me, it isn't.

If I replace it with the words you asked me to then I would say the Packers are or Bears are. Those are plural words. However, the plural for Tide is Tides. Low tide and high tide put together are tides.

Crimson Tide is one, moves as one. So it would be Tide is going for it not are.

Would you say 20th Century Fox are making a movie just because a bunch of people work there. No, you'd say it is making a movie.

Boy, I'm passionate about this.


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We'll just have to agree to disagree. As JamieSPC noted, it's the AP STYLE and is what I was taught.

We need some Clemson fans to argue with. Never thought I'd be debating grammar on TideFans!

trenda said:

We'll just have to agree to disagree. As JamieSPC noted, it's the AP STYLE and is what I was taught.

We need some Clemson fans to argue with. Never thought I'd be debating grammar on TideFans!

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Hahaha

AP style sucks. They gave McCaffrey POTY too. lol [emoji6]


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RTR91 said:

It was a joke. Calm down.

I've been called grammar police by numerous posters before.


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And for sure, no one wants me joining in the grammar enforcement.

BamainBoston said:

Can't tell if this is sarcasm, but yes.

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Awesome! Bought your first 2 books by the way. They're in the queue. Looking forward to reading them.

The Alabama Crimson Tide is a team that consists of 5 star athletes, but the Alabama Crimson Tide are only as good as their weakest links.

This is the last of my contributions, minus history, many here could school me on the subject.

Sabanizer said:

The Alabama Crimson Tide is a team that consists of 5 star athletes, but the Alabama Crimson Tide are only as good as their weakest link.

This is the last of my contributions, minus history, many here could school me on the subject.

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That just doesn't sound right.


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Y'all, it all depends on HOW "the Crimson Tide" is being used. If the action is being carried out as ONE unit, then the singular verb is used. If the action is being carried out with each member acting independently, the plural verb is used.

Let me use an example other than our beloved Tide.
The audience CLAPS at the end of the performance. (The audience as ONE UNIT claps together.)
The audience VISIT the concession stand during intermission. (Not everyone visits the concession stand, and not everyone visits at the SAME time during intermission,)

The Crimson Tide PLAYS Monday night. (The team as a whole will be participants in the game; therefore, a singular verb.)

The Crimson Tide HAVE certain game-day rituals. (Not every plays has the same ritual, so the plural verb is used.)

Whether it sounds right or wrong is beside the point. The grammar rules are the rules. My students are always telling me something doesn't sound "right" when it actually is. I tell them I don't make the rules. I just enforce them. Or try to...

JBama_in_PCOLA said:

That just doesn't sound right.


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I meant to write "weakest links" I corrected