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Indictments over Planned Parenthood videos announced

CharminTide

CharminTide

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CajunCrimson said:
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I hope that slippery slope was a fun ride for you.

Look, I know better than to actually get into the debate of where life begins or when termination is justifiable. But I have seen many of those who oppose abortion use the term "baby" at every opportunity and accuse their opponents, who instead wield the term "fetus," of being cold, heartless, and unemotional. All I'm saying is that words have definitions and, medically speaking, fetus is the correct term in this context and baby is not. And when someone in this debate knows the difference but chooses ignore it, the reason must be for emotional manipulation. I've met opponents of abortion who actually use the proper scientific terminology, and I always respect the hell out of them for that.
 
Tide1986

Tide1986

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CharminTide said:
I hope that slippery slope was a fun ride for you.

Look, I know better than to actually get into the debate of where life begins or when termination is justifiable. But I have seen many of those who oppose abortion use the term "baby" at every opportunity and accuse their opponents, who instead wield the term "fetus," of being cold, heartless, and unemotional. All I'm saying is that words have definitions and, medically speaking, fetus is the correct term in this context and baby is not. And when someone in this debate knows the difference but chooses ignore it, the reason must be for emotional manipulation. I've met opponents of abortion who actually use the proper scientific terminology, and I always respect the hell out of them for that.
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Well, using "fetus" is technically emotionally manipulative as well. And as a note, I respect the hell out of those who have the courage to recognize a fetus for what it really is.
 
CajunCrimson

CajunCrimson

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CharminTide said:
I hope that slippery slope was a fun ride for you.

Look, I know better than to actually get into the debate of where life begins or when termination is justifiable. But I have seen many of those who oppose abortion use the term "baby" at every opportunity and accuse their opponents, who instead wield the term "fetus," of being cold, heartless, and unemotional. All I'm saying is that words have definitions and, medically speaking, fetus is the correct term in this context and baby is not. And when someone in this debate knows the difference but chooses ignore it, the reason must be for emotional manipulation. I've met opponents of abortion who actually use the proper scientific terminology, and I always respect the hell out of them for that.
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Is your respect more valuable than mine? Because if it isn't, then, they aren't any further ahead then they were before they used the word "fetus"
 
Tide1986

Tide1986

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CharminTide said:
No, it's the proper term. Using an improper term to invoke the inherent emotional baggage is what I consider to be manipulative.
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I'm not quibbling over the existence of the word or its meaning. It is emotionally manipulative to use "fetus". You admit this fact in your original post: 'Terms such as "baby" or "child" are avoided, as these are obviously emotionally charged...' You don't want people to become "emotional" (cry or become sentimental I assume) so you use a euphemistic term to cause the absence of such emotions, which is textbook manipulation.
 
Aledinho

Aledinho

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Guttmacher Institute (Pro choice group for what is worth)

Too often in our assessment of the consequences and implications of different contraceptive practices, we pay insufficient attention to the deeply felt, but complex and often weakly articulated, personal feeling of the users themselves.
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Being clinical does not benefit the women who are making these choices.

Also, the medical community has a history of being just as flawed and ethically corrupt as any of us on this issue that they do not deserve any deference on this issue. E.g. Native american women being told that they can get a "womb transplant" after a hysterectomy; the sterilization campaigns in Brasil and Peru which including sterilizing women as young as 15 years old; Dr. Roland Lavigne sterilizing 80% of the women in the Paxato Ha Ha Hae tribe.
 
CajunCrimson

CajunCrimson

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CharminTide said:
No, it's the proper term. Using an improper term to invoke the inherent emotional baggage is what I consider to be manipulative.
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"Pro Life" and "Anti Abortion" say the same thing -- and to my knowledge are both non-emotional medical terms......yet, I'm guessing you don't like the term "Pro Life" -- because of the "perceived" emotion - charged within the words.....many of us feel the same way when the word "fetus" is used....and though medically "proper" as you stated, it is used not as a "medical" term, but as a defense and justification of actions.
 
CajunCrimson

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I do have a question to the pro-abortionists - since we are on this topic.....

Would it be legal to abort a fetus that we can genetically ID as being homosexual (if at some point in the future, that becomes possible to identify).....?

Or is it more of a "you can abort a fetus for no reason, but not for a bad one" thing?
 
Tide1986

Tide1986

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CajunCrimson said:
I do have a question to the pro-abortionists - since we are on this topic.....

Would it be legal to abort a fetus that we can genetically ID as being homosexual (if at some point in the future, that becomes possible to identify).....?

Or is it more of a "you can abort a fetus for no reason, but not for a bad one" thing?
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Surely it would be a hate crime.
 
CharminTide

CharminTide

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Tide1986 said:
I'm not quibbling over the existence of the word or its meaning. It is emotionally manipulative to use "fetus". You admit this fact in your original post: 'Terms such as "baby" or "child" are avoided, as these are obviously emotionally charged...' You don't want people to become "emotional" (cry or become sentimental I assume) so you use a euphemistic term to cause the absence of such emotions, which is textbook manipulation.
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You're operating from a flawed premise. Fetus is an emotionally neutral term, which is why it's used in our reports. Abortions are almost never easy decisions for women, and we don’t wish to compound their emotional distress by referring to their terminated fetus as a "baby" or "child." It's for this same reason that we also don’t use dehumanizing terms such as "disjoined products of failed human conception." Fetus is a term that sits neutrally in between these two charged extremes, and allows the family to assign whatever emotional significance to the event that they desire. This isn't my supposition and it's not me politicizing the issue, it's born of experience counseling women and families making this difficult choice.
 
CharminTide

CharminTide

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Aledinho said:
Also, the medical community has a history of being just as flawed and ethically corrupt as any of us on this issue that they do not deserve any deference on this issue. E.g. Native american women being told that they can get a "womb transplant" after a hysterectomy; the sterilization campaigns in Brasil and Peru which including sterilizing women as young as 15 years old; Dr. Roland Lavigne sterilizing 80% of the women in the Paxato Ha Ha Hae tribe.
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I don’t see the relevance of invoking medical practices from half a century ago and from other countries, as we're simply discussing terminology.

CajunCrimson said:
"Pro Life" and "Anti Abortion" say the same thing -- and to my knowledge are both non-emotional medical terms......yet, I'm guessing you don't like the term "Pro Life" -- because of the "perceived" emotion - charged within the words.....many of us feel the same way when the word "fetus" is used....and though medically "proper" as you stated, it is used not as a "medical" term, but as a defense and justification of actions.
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I honestly don’t care which term activists use. Those are political labels and do not misdescribe actual medical terminology.
 
Tide1986

Tide1986

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CharminTide said:
You're operating from a flawed premise. Fetus is an emotionally neutral term, which is why it's used in our reports. Abortions are almost never easy decisions for women, and we don’t wish to compound their emotional distress by referring to their terminated fetus as a "baby" or "child." It's for this same reason that we also don’t use dehumanizing terms such as "disjoined products of failed human conception." Fetus is a term that sits neutrally in between these two charged extremes, and allows the family to assign whatever emotional significance to the event that they desire. This isn't my supposition and it's not me politicizing the issue, it's born of experience counseling women and families making this difficult choice.
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I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree that there is an absence of manipulation in the word choice regardless of one's political motivation or lack thereof.
 
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CajunCrimson

CajunCrimson

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CharminTide said:
I don’t see the relevance of invoking medical practices from half a century ago and from other countries, as we're simply discussing terminology.

I honestly don’t care which term activists use. Those are political labels and do not misdescribe actual medical terminology.
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Wrong, you do care what terms pro-life activists use -- your previous posts are clear on that. What you don't care about - is what pro-abortion activists use.
 
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