Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Briles Fired, AD and Starr Resigns)

CrimsonProf said:

Do you have any understanding of the funding mechanisms at work between the SBC and Baylor? Or between Baylor and the Baptist General Convention of Texas? If not, best to let it go, but I'm probably asking too much of you.

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Seriously? You want me to drop it but you want to keep talking about it. I'm not sure how to interpret your last comment as anything other than snide. In terms of funding, Baylor doesn't seem reliant on it, so once again if they're just dragging the Baptist name through the mud, why not drop it? Seriously, why further impugn it? I'm not bashing religion, I'm not bashing Baptists, I'm bashing Baylor and that is "germane to the discussion".

But just in case you're confused, I'm not talking about funding! I'm talking about expecting humans beings to act like decent people, and if they refuse to act like decent people, then you'd think they would at least have the decency to distance themselves from people who should care very much about such appearances.

CrimsonProf said:

Shutting down a major university is not the same as shutting down a small or even medium sized business. It wouldn't affect just a few dozen people - it would affect thousands. It's too much to even suggest, no matter how serious the allegations are.

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Seriously? What if there were 500 rapes? 1,000? 10,000? So, if these were murders covered up on campus, we should still let it go? How bad do things have to get in America before we abandon the "too big to fail" mentality? It is disgusting.

First, let's cut the religion talk if you want this thread to stay here. If you want it on NS, have at it.

B1GTide said:

Seriously? What if there were 500 rapes? 1,000? 10,000? So, if these were murders covered up on campus, we should still let it go? How bad do things have to get in America before we abandon the "too big to fail" mentality? It is disgusting.

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With this mindset, should we have shut down the entire Catholic church? Or Boy Scouts?

RTR91 said:

With this mindset, should we have shut down the entire Catholic church? Or Boy Scouts?

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Well, I am happy to try just shutting down a football program to see if it works. But we need to be willing to shut down entire programs where necessary. We can't just say that we are unwilling to take that step. That is what leads to this type of corruption - the "too big to fail" mentality. Knowing that they will just be left alone.

You can't shut down a church, but I would have threatened their tax free status if it were in my power. Think they would still cover this up if it threatened with the financial ruin of their church?

As for the Boy Scouts thing - I didn't really follow it closely. I just don't have enough information to form an opinion about appropriate punishment. But the organization is a shadow of its former self now, and I wonder if that is a result of parents simply not wanting to risk their boys.

B1GTide said:

Well, I am happy to try just shutting down a football program to see if it works. But we need to be willing to shut down entire programs where necessary.

You can't shut down a church, but I would have threatened their tax free status if it were in my power. Think they would still cover this up if it threatened with the financial ruin of their church?

As for the Boy Scouts thing - I didn't really follow it closely. I just don't have enough information to form an opinion about appropriate punishment. But the organization is a shadow of its former self now, and I wonder if that is a result of parents simply not wanting to risk their boys.

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IOW, a the public perception was bad enough that the organization took a hit. Baylor is going to take a hit just on perception alone.

Shut the football program down if you want, but you can't shut down the entire school.

RTR91 said:

Shut the football program down if you want, but you can't shut down the entire school.

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And if they do it again?

B1GTide said:

And if they do it again?

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Do we have evidence the school has done anything? It's all been football-related, no?

RTR91 said:

Do we have evidence the school has done anything? It's all been football-related, no?

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The cover-up involved the entire administration, so much so that the people responsible for Title IX protections at the school quit in frustration. We know of 52 incidents. How many were there really if we know of 52? Statistics say that there are hundreds if we know of 52 - hundreds of women who have had their lives ruined.

You can't call this a football problem. It is a Baylor problem.

I apologize if I seem to harsh here. I believe that most of you would feel the same if you had seen the things that I have seen - the lives ruined by rape, and the people who cover for family and friends who commit rape. Our society still has a long way to go here.

B1GTide said:

The cover-up involved the entire administration, so much so that the people responsible for Title IX protections at the school quit in frustration. We know of 52 incidents. How many were there really if we know of 52? Statistics say that there are hundreds if we know of 52 - hundreds of women who have had their lives ruined.

You can't call this a football problem. It is a Baylor problem.

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And how many of those people involved have already been fired once the investigation was given to the BOR?

RTR91 said:

And how many of those people involved have already been fired once the investigation was given to the BOR?

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Sorry, how many of those people would have been fired had this not become a Title IX issue and threatened them in such a huge way? Baylor doesn't get credit for firing the corrupt because they didn't do it when it mattered. They only took action when they were forced to take action. At no point has Baylor "done the right thing" here.

B1GTide said:

Sorry, how many of those people would have been fired had this not become a Title IX issue and threatened them in such a huge way? Baylor doesn't get credit for firing the corrupt because they didn't do it when it mattered. They only took action when they were forced to take action. At no point has Baylor "done the right thing" here.

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They didn't fire them because the people that could fire them didn't know it was happening! When they learned of it, the BOR took action.

RTR91 said:

They didn't fire them because the people that could fire them didn't know it was happening! When they learned of it, the BOR took action.

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Believe that if you wish.

ETA - consider this, the guys fired will all have new jobs - some already do.

B1GTide said:

Believe that if you wish.

ETA - consider this, the guys fired will all have new jobs - some already do.

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Well I guess that means we need to shut down the doors of the places that hired those guys, too.

RTR91 said:

Well I guess that means we need to shut down the doors of the places that hired those guys, too.

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Maybe you will actually answer my question this time - is there anything severe enough that you would support the closing of a school for illegal activity? What if these were 52 murders covered up instead of 52 rapes?

B1GTide said:

Maybe you will actually answer my question this time - is there anything severe enough that you would support the closing of a school for illegal activity? What if these were 52 murders covered up instead of 52 rapes?

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The world isn't as black and white as you think this is. Each case is different, so I have no clue if there's something that would cause me to be in favor of shutting down a school.

B1GTide said:

Maybe you will actually answer my question this time - is there anything severe enough that you would support the closing of a school for illegal activity? What if these were 52 murders covered up instead of 52 rapes?

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You make it seem as though there were 52 separate incidents, which is clearly not true. That is not to minimize what did happen, but still getting facts right is not irrelevant. if 10 people murder one person we do not count ten murders, though we do count ten "acts of murder". Same here. There are allegedly 52 acts if rape, but not 52 rape victims. It matters because you are trying to establish a pattern that reaches farther than the facts support.

LA4Bama said:

You make it seem as though there were 52 separate incidents, which is clearly not true. That is not to minimize what did happen, but still getting facts right is not irrelevant. if 10 people murder one person we do not count ten murders, though we do count ten "acts of murder". Same here. There are allegedly 52 acts if rape, but not 52 rape victims. It matters because you are trying to establish a pattern that reaches farther than the facts support.

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You didn't answer my question.

RTR91 said:

The world isn't as black and white as you think this is. Each case is different, so I have no clue if there's something that would cause me to be in favor of shutting down a school.

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Clearly rape doesn't meet that criteria for you, or for just about anyone else here. I was just wondering if murder would. You make it sound like you might be willing to give them a pass for murder under certain scenarios.