Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Briles Fired, AD and Starr Resigns)

barrytide

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May 3, 2011
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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Hard not to respect Baylor for taking this action. Look for Briles to sit out a year or two and end up somewhere on the left coast.
I have absolutely zero respect for Baylor. You think they would have fired him without all the news attention on this. Baylor has done all they can to cover this up. Time to pay up, hope that anyone that was assaulted by one of the "football" players sues the place out of existence. Couldn't happen to a better group of turds. They make the Lee county culters look like choir boys.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

I don't want to sound like the wet blanket here, and I'm in agreement in general with the sentiments expressed.

However.....before overly praising Baylor, let me ask the unasked question - "Did they really have any choice in the matter here?"

You don't get points for bravery from me for doing what you had to do anyway. It's like someone 'coming clean' under oath in a trial. Well, duh - like you had much choice. So not to sound cynical or angry - and I AM glad they've done this because I'm a tad bit surprised.......if you didn't have any choice anyway let's not go too hog wild with the praise, either.


Btw - I wanna make a point here. Maybe I'm naïve but I am of the belief that IN THE LONG RUN if you come clean with stuff even really BAD stuff and take the public relations hit but correct it, I firmly believe you wind up better although it may take decades to restore the reputation to something closer than before.

Alabama had some problems awhile back with the football program - to a certain degree - wagging the proverbial dog of the school in the DuBose era. We paid a MAJOR price for it (pardon the pun as you'll see in a moment). We were hurt badly and wounded in the PR department. We canned Dubious and hired Fran, who - if we'll be honest - was way down the list of candidates. Fran jilted us and we were again mocked with tones of, "Y'all are a bunch of cheaters, what did you expect?"

Then came what to my mind was the moment of truth for this great university and its football program: the FIRING (not the hiring) of Mike Price. For those who don't remember what all went down at the time, we were AGAIN mocked for Victorian moralities and being 'backwards' and Stewart Mandel tore us up in a column where he mocked us and said Price ought to be glad he's getting out of a place where everything is backwards and folks are more concerned with what some long dead coach might think and all the other clichés.

But for those who don't know - Price's misdeed that was exposed was NOT the first time. It was the first time it happened so publicly. If Price had stayed here, we would now be the Kentucky Wildcats of the SEC West. Price was a sexual harassment lawsuit waiting to happen, and the school bit the bullet despite it being the month of May and did the right thing and stood up for all the potential victims of Price wanting to score with 18-year old coeds.

(Side note: in 2006, I bought my house from an Alabama alum, a set of parents whose son was an attorney working with the athletic department. The mom told me that her son had said VERY EXPLICITLY that when Price was hired, he was sat down and informed of his OBLIGATIONS to be HONEST with any questions put to him. In fact, after the DuBose scandal, they made crystal clear to Price AND EVERYONE ELSE that you don't answer a query in that office with the old lawyer's trick of answering just the question and nothing else (e.g. how you deal with the IRS 101)).

We were ripped, we were mocked, we were tormented - oh, and then they hung the label 'racist' on us for hiring the unqualified white guy with the big name over the slightly more qualified black guy, neither of whom had head coaching experience. We were racists, obsessed with sex, cheaters, and all the other things we got called.

Look at us now - we are now who everyone wants to be.

And while I don't think that Arkansas will attain our level (because who ever has - ever?), I DO think that in the long run their firing Bobby Petrino laid down a marker of virtue that was important and that WILL help them in the long run. It might be the coach after Bielema just as it was the coach 'after' Shula that restored the rep.


The people who have my sympathy? The people with Baylor on their degrees who have to deal with the smirks and snide comments over things they no doubt don't approve. Same thing with the Penn State folks who had no idea and who now.....what's the FIRST thing you think of when you think of Penn State? It's gonna be that way for a long time folks. (It might help them to destroy the football program and do something else).

I know, I've gone on but my point is simple: if you do the right thing then IN THE LONG RUN it will help. Maybe not now, maybe not a decade from now. But it WILL help eventually. Take the loss now and rebuild your rep.
 

KrAzY3

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

I don't want to sound like the wet blanket here, and I'm in agreement in general with the sentiments expressed.

However.....before overly praising Baylor, let me ask the unasked question - "Did they really have any choice in the matter here?"
That's a valid point and I'm not really sure if they did or didn't have a choice. Part of the issue with Tennessee or FSU for instance is we don't know how deep it goes. There's been some degree of cover-up and it seems to obscure enough that I'm not even sure how to compare what's gone on. We know Tennessee and FSU are both facing Title IX lawsuits, but when a school is successful at suppressing things how do we know how much is actually suppressed?

What we do know is that Butch Jones still has his job, no one was fired over the Jameis Winston abomination of justice (not saying explicitly he was guilty but there's no doubt that people acted inappropriately). We know what went on at Penn State went on for decades, without any price being paid and even then the penalty was reduced and the University has taken an alarmingly unapologetic stance. So, I'm angry about what went on at Baylor, but there's also a lot of relief to finally see some justice that isn't decades too late.
 

russtang

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

I have absolutely zero respect for Baylor. You think they would have fired him without all the news attention on this. Baylor has done all they can to cover this up. Time to pay up, hope that anyone that was assaulted by one of the "football" players sues the place out of existence. Couldn't happen to a better group of turds. They make the Lee county culters look like choir boys.
I agree. They covered it up until they couldn't.
 

CrimsonNagus

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

I have absolutely zero respect for Baylor. You think they would have fired him without all the news attention on this. Baylor has done all they can to cover this up. Time to pay up, hope that anyone that was assaulted by one of the "football" players sues the place out of existence. Couldn't happen to a better group of turds. They make the Lee county culters look like choir boys.
I agree, how can anyone respect this school? They would not be doing any of this if they hadn't got caught, they're just trying to save face now. IMO, the entire football staff needs to be fired, every last one of them. You know they all knew what was going on and not a one of them tried to do the right thing. Makes me sick how some schools treat sexual crimes these days and it is time for a school to pay a price so bad that it sends them to the stone age.
 
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RammerJammer15

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Unfortunately, Penn State not getting the death penalty messed things up for future cases like this that warrant the death penalty.
 

alwayshavebeen

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Shame on Penn St. for not taking even more harsh action decades ago. All a bunch of sorry human beings.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

That's a valid point and I'm not really sure if they did or didn't have a choice. Part of the issue with Tennessee or FSU for instance is we don't know how deep it goes. There's been some degree of cover-up and it seems to obscure enough that I'm not even sure how to compare what's gone on. We know Tennessee and FSU are both facing Title IX lawsuits, but when a school is successful at suppressing things how do we know how much is actually suppressed?

What we do know is that Butch Jones still has his job, no one was fired over the Jameis Winston abomination of justice (not saying explicitly he was guilty but there's no doubt that people acted inappropriately). We know what went on at Penn State went on for decades, without any price being paid and even then the penalty was reduced and the University has taken an alarmingly unapologetic stance. So, I'm angry about what went on at Baylor, but there's also a lot of relief to finally see some justice that isn't decades too late.
When viewed in the context you state, I agree. There's little doubt that both UT and FSU have played fast and loose with regulations for years. There's also no doubt that had Winston been a fourth-string offensive tackle, he'd have been thrown overboard by Jimbo and the clan with the usual "we can't have the inmates running the asylum" argument.

Btw - one of my coworkers who is a Tide fan from Red Bay has a cousin on staff at FSU. She claims this cousin actually told her when the Crab Legs thing came down, "That stupid idiot. All he had to do was go in the CORRECT line and walk out with that and nobody would have known!!!"

She was serious, too.
 

KentuckianaBFan

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

I imagine this will lead to lawsuits filed by the victims of the assaults...but what, if any, could repercussions be for Title IX non-compliance? Just Federal funding withheld (does Baylor as a private institution even get Federal funding), individuals prosecuted, or something else? The report mentions lack of actions to protect individuals'right under Title IX, just wondering what could come of that...anyone know?
 

deliveryman35

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

I have absolutely zero respect for Baylor. You think they would have fired him without all the news attention on this. Baylor has done all they can to cover this up. Time to pay up, hope that anyone that was assaulted by one of the "football" players sues the place out of existence. Couldn't happen to a better group of turds. They make the Lee county culters look like choir boys.
Gee, I'd hate to hear how you would feel had they made the decision to fight this and retain Briles. I guess then you would tell us all how you REALLY feel, right?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that anyone give any awards in courage or accolades to Baylor, we're just acknowledging that it's refreshing to see an institution stand up for what is right and the victims in this whole mess by holding the HC accountable for this lawless environment that was allowed to evidently go on for some time.
 
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KrAzY3

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Private schools are still feeding at the government trough.
This is discussed every now and then, but from what I understand they essentially have no choice but to do so. They basically have to meet federal requirements and accept what the federal government says they have to accept.
 

barrytide

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May 3, 2011
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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Gee, I'd hate to hear how you would feel had they made the decision to fight this and retain Briles. I guess then you would tell us all how you REALLY feel, right?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that anyone give any awards in courage or accolades to Baylor, we're just acknowledging that it's refreshing to see an institution stand up for what is right and the victims in this whole mess by holding the HC accountable for this lawless environment that was allowed to evidently go on for some time.
College campuses in smaller cities are more like small towns. With all the allegations coming to light now there is no way that the administration had no clue. Knocking students out, sexual assaults, I mean multiple sexual assaults by the same player, woman troubles? nothing a little assault wont cure, coach has got your back with campus and local PD, and lets not forget the school intimidating would be whistle blowers. Then the great spin job investigation after the national media had reported it. I'm sorry we disagree, I feel there is just too much smoke to think they just caught on and did the right thing.
 

Intl.Aperture

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

They are also taking in millions in government grants and student aid.
It's the ability for their students to access Federal student loans that gets them, like you said. But that's a thread that deserves pulling elsewhere. (I'd really love to get into the nuts and bolts of education and specifically higher education on the non-sports board.)

As for Baylor....It's a start is what I'll say. At least something is happening. It's despicable and abhorrent that the system has allowed these atrocities to go on this long but at least there appear to be the early stages of consequences.
 

RTR91

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

College campuses in smaller cities are more like small towns. With all the allegations coming to light now there is no way that the administration had no clue. Knocking students out, sexual assaults, I mean multiple sexual assaults by the same player, woman troubles? nothing a little assault wont cure, coach has got your back with campus and local PD, and lets not forget the school intimidating would be whistle blowers. Then the great spin job investigation after the national media had reported it. I'm sorry we disagree, I feel there is just too much smoke to think they just caught on and did the right thing.
Their investigation started in the fall after Texas Monthly first reported on it, but you can continue your outrage.
 

KrAzY3

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

They are also taking in millions in government grants and student aid.
I believe that's a big part of it, but basically they can't decline that even if they wish. The idea is they have to accept the students getting federal aid and by accepting them they are accepting federal aid and subject to federal requirements. I'd have to read up on it some more, but from what I understand there have been efforts to resist in the past but they won't let them not take it.
 
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KrAzY3

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Nope, you don't have to take the money, and you can tell students you aren't taking federal loans. I mean, it's hard, but the feds won't force it on you. Take Patrick Henry, for instance, "Because Patrick Henry College does not accept federal funds, it is not subject to the Clery Act or Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972."
Thanks for the clarification, I was aware of some private institutions trying and failing to get out of federal restrictions as well as some religions exemptions for Title IX requirements, but I wasn't aware of institutions successfully fending them off.
 

bamagradinATL

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Nope, you don't have to take the money, and you can tell students you aren't taking federal loans. I mean, it's hard, but the feds won't force it on you. Take Patrick Henry, for instance, "Because Patrick Henry College does not accept federal funds, it is not subject to the Clery Act or Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972."
I thought Patrick Henry College was the name of the Jr College in Monroeville, AL.
 

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