Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Briles Fired, AD and Starr Resigns)

mittman

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I watched a TV show yesterday which was kind of hard to stomach. It centered around a gay man almost beaten to death, and a former skinhead both of which worked in outreach. The messed up thing was the as they later found out, the skinhead was the one that almost beat the gay man to death. That's a hard thing to reconcile, how one man could literally scar someone else for life, and yet face no actual punishment. This is what the Riley situation reminds me of. Is it brave and noble to stand up and take accountability for your horrible actions? I suppose it is, but in these cases there also was no true accountability for them either. The victims are the ones that have to be bigger than they were, to rise above, they're the ones who have to bear the burden.
Was it brave for Riley to do this? IMO certainly, but no where near as brave as she was for going there and doing it.

I think the fact that he was willing to stand there and let her say those things indicates that he is willing to take some accountability for his actions and or inaction. Whether or not that meets any threshold of justice is for each individual to judge. IMO that one event doesn't cut it. I don't know enough to have any further opinion.

Your last sentence holds very true. That was an incredible thing for her to do, it requires exponentially more for the victim to rise above it, and I hope it sets an example.
 

Redwood Forrest

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I watched a TV show yesterday which was kind of hard to stomach. It centered around a gay man almost beaten to death, and a former skinhead both of which worked in outreach. The messed up thing was the as they later found out, the skinhead was the one that almost beat the gay man to death. That's a hard thing to reconcile, how one man could literally scar someone else for life, and yet face no actual punishment. This is what the Riley situation reminds me of. Is it brave and noble to stand up and take accountability for your horrible actions? I suppose it is, but in these cases there also was no true accountability for them either. The victims are the ones that have to be bigger than they were, to rise above, they're the ones who have to bear the burden.
You make a great point and it reminded me of this question. "Riley told her he knew that his players had been arrested, released and that the charges had been dropped. He felt he had to implement some sort of punishment, which resulted in the suspension. He said he didn’t read the police report and did not know details beyond what the arrests were for." Tracy said she believes Riley.

My question is, are we supposed to really hammer down (not a suspension) on people who will not be put on trial? If the police report indicated guilt then why were the charges dropped? Who decided to drop them?

If you are head coach and if you do read the police report ..... are you supposed to override the law and kick people off the team that may be innocent? Look at our current situation. Should Coach Saban kick both off the team?

I am not minimizing rape. Those who are found guilty should have the book thrown at them. But how can we be sure if charges are dropped?
 

KrAzY3

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If you are head coach and if you do read the police report ..... are you supposed to override the law and kick people off the team that may be innocent?
Override the law? The law and team rules are not at all one and the same. I sometimes see people muddle up distinctions where clear distinctions exist.

Let me give one example. Sometimes people are fired from a private job for something they say or somehow express. Now, the first thing I often hear after this is that they had their right to free speech violated. Nope, doesn't work like that, doesn't work like that around here either. Free speech only applies (and only should apply) to the government placing restrictions on your speech. If you say something I disagree with, as an employer I should have a right to severe our relationship. So, there's no actual crossover there, it's just an imagined one.

In this case I would say the same thing. If a coach punishes a player, we're not talking about throwing him in jail, we're not talking about trying to simulate the justice system in action, that's not at all what is going on. However, are we really to try to assert that only things that are prosecuted crimes are punishable outside of the justice system?

I had a neighbor that beat his wife, repeatedly. She would never press charges so the justice system never did anything. Does that mean everyone else around him has to regard him as an innocent man guilty of nothing? I don't agree with that at all. Take for example the FSU running back, he beat his girlfriend, she put pictures on social media, no charges were pressed and Jimbo the scumbag doesn't even sit him a single game! Well, I guess he didn't "override" the law but he darn sure should have. He had all the evidence he needed to act upon. She posted what happened, she posted pictures, everyone knows what happened, the guy should have been suspended, end of story. How about Taylor and Alabama? The charges were dropped, but I don't see anyone asking for him to be back on the team do you? And he shouldn't be back.

The justice system has failings, and particularly in situations involving rape or domestic abuse (the Winston case comes to mind, no question he should have been suspended, the girl had bruises on her arms, claimed abuse at his hands and had his DNA on her), often does nothing. I have witnessed this firsthand. I also understand sometimes why they don't, however simply because the victim won't cooperate does not at all mean we as a society should pretend something didn't happen.

Really though part of this is the distinction between the law, in proving someone did harm, and what I don't think the law should do, which is legislate morality. The law has no place telling us when to go to bed, as far as I'm concerned they have no place telling us to stay away from drugs or prostitutes either. However, if I am the coach of a team? Do I have a right to uphold those stands. Absolutely! And that's really what most of this comes down to. A coach has the right, he has the moral imperative I would argue, to create a standard for his players. How he does that is one thing, but when someone alleged actual abuse, when there is any evidence of that, he absolutely has to take it seriously.
 

Redwood Forrest

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I agree and I was talking about the cases of "he said, she said" which would assume to be the case when charges are dropped. Of course we feel that was not the case several times of late.
 

RTR91

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Losing many recruits from this past class and possibly losing the star QB.



I'm not sure the NCAA will have to worry about considering any punishment here the way players are bolting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

gman4tide

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Losing many recruits from this past class and possibly losing the star QB.



I'm not sure the NCAA will have to worry about considering any punishment here the way players are bolting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wasn't in blue, so I'm not sure of sarcasm, BUT...the ncaa can't dole out enough punishment for the heinous crap that bu has pulled.
 

RTR91

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Wasn't in blue, so I'm not sure of sarcasm, BUT...the ncaa can't dole out enough punishment for the heinous crap that bu has pulled.
We've gone over this numerous times in this thread. The NCAA can't give punishment. There are no NCAA bylaws over this. They would lose it in a court battle, which Baylor would surely bring.
 
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Crimson1967

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If the school was covering up a rape to protect a player, that would seem to be an "extra benefit" for the team, unless the cover up rapes for the entire student body.

I'd say it is more of a violation than Penn State covering up for Sandusky if most of his crimes were discovered (and hidden) after he left the staff.
 

RTR91

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Waiting on an article with the quotes to come out, but Jim Grobe made some not-so-wise comments today at Big 12 media days. Not helping Baylor's appearance at all.

Here's the transcript of his answer to a question about Baylor's culture:

 
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RTR91

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This article can easily take the conversation to NS. If you want to keep the thread here, keep the NS comments to yourself...

Baylor's strict conduct code may have silenced rape victims



The sexual assault scandal that took down Baylor University's president and revered football coach also found a problem with a bedrock of the school's faith-based education: a student conduct code banning alcohol, drugs and premarital sex that may have driven some victims into silence.

Investigators with the Pepper Hamilton law firm who dug into Baylor's response to sexual assault claims determined the school's rigid approach to drugs, alcohol and sex and "perceived judgmental responses" to victims who reported being raped "created barriers" to reporting assaults. Some women faced the prospect of their family being notified.

"A number of victims were told that if they made a report of rape, their parents would be informed of the details of where they were and what they were doing," said Chad Dunn, a Houston attorney who represents six women who have sued Baylor under the anonymous identification of Jane Doe.
 

Jon

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and after all of this Baylor is still not doing things right. Time to burn the program to the ground. It's almost unbelievable

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/...-violating-university-issued-no-contact-order


The woman in the no-contact incident told Outside the Lines that one of the most disappointing aspects of Baylor's handling of the allegations is that it appears Hammad was never disciplined. The day after the incident near Baylor's student union, she and friends -- including the acquaintance who said Hammad had assaulted her, too -- went to AT&T Stadium in Arlington to watch Baylor play Texas Tech. She said they were shocked to see Hammad on the field.

"We felt we were being betrayed," she said. "It's like they were rewarding him by playing him and starting him in the game. I texted the police officer ... and said: 'Why the hell is he starting? He broke a no-contact order.'" She said the officer apologized but couldn't give her an answer because she had no involvement in those decisions.

"That's when it really hit us that Baylor wasn't doing anything at the time," the acquaintance said, noting that the no-contact order stated that violation could result in suspension or expulsion from the school.

Hammad played in all 13 games that season.

Remember this is after all the other news broke and during the Pepper Hamilton investigation

The only communication the woman had with Baylor after the hearing came in a Nov. 12 email from Baylor Chief Judicial Officer Bethany McCraw, the woman told Outside the Lines. The email, reviewed by Outside the Lines, stated that the woman needed to start taking a certain exit from a science building to avoid coming in contact with Hammad. It also stated that if the woman needed to access any building on campus where she did not have a scheduled class, or outside of her scheduled class time, that she must email McCraw at least 24 hours ahead of time to get her approval.

"I never got a result from the trial, and now I'm being told how to exit the building as if I'm the one who's being charged?" she said. "I felt like I was being punished and treated like a criminal."

She reached out to Title IX Coordinator Patty Crawford, who was out of the office that day, "and then I emailed every single person who works for Ken Starr listed on his website, and I told them I was disgusted with Baylor." She said no one responded to the email.
 

Jon

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My son's girlfriend's brother is walking on at Baylor. (Yeah, I really just said that. LOL!)
If he can even remotely play he will have opportunity

Of course they should be firing their entire staff, outside of Grobe, and their Title IX office over this so he may not get much coaching
 

RTR91

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Art Briles needs to shut up and shut up real quick.

Art Briles: ‘I’ve never done anything illegal, immoral or unethical’


“I’ve [coached] for 38 years, lived the right way 60 years of my life, never done anything illegal, immoral or unethical,” Briles said. “I think at the end of the day, all that will show itself, and I’m excited about coaching again, I really am. You know, if you lose your dog, all of a sudden you’re looking around hard for him. You’ll stay up late at night looking for him. I’ve lost my dog, my dog’s football, and I’m ready to go find him again.”
“I will coach in the 2017 season,” Briles said. Asked if he had been contacted about opportunities, he added, “I’ve had some things going on.
So he's done nothing unethical but has talked to people about jobs that are not open yet.
 

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