Republican debate - New Hampshire

swoop10

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Everyone who knows him. He won Iowa and got one endorsement out of it. Rubio got 9. At some point, you can't chalk it up to "Cruz vs the establishment." Somebody once said if you meet one jerk in the morning, you met a jerk. If you meet jerks all day, your the jerk.
Being a jerk and a backstabber is two totally different things. I don't care if most people in DC think he's a jerk but do most of the people in Texas think he's doing the job he was sent to do and I think the answer to that is yes.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Gotta love the media narrative - "Rubio kept saying the same stuff over and over."

Gee, I don't recall Bill Clinton doing that oh wait, YES I DO!!!! Bill Clinton used pretty much every question put to him to mention 'the worst economy in 50 years' and his solution of 'a middle class tax cut' and a promise to 'make the rich pay their fair share.'

Reagan did the same thing. So did Bush 43 in particular.

John Kerry answered every question put to him in 2004 with a reference to 'I went to Vietnam.' And Barack Obama stuttered and hem-hawed his way to the White House by saying 'yes we can' and 'change we can believe in.'


Remember - it was NOT Sarah Palin who claimed she had foreign policy experience because she had lived overseas as a child. The candidate who said that should have been ridiculed and laughed off the stage by the media for daring to try that one. Not only did he not get laughed off the stage, he hauled off and cited it AGAIN in April.

Instead, he's President and showing he doesn't know much about foreign policy, which was obvious to anyone with a brain at the time.

(And no, Palin is qualified to sit in the Oval Office, only a moron would say that - but we all know what would have happened if she had made that same claim; she got ripped for something she never ever said about being able to see Alaska from her house).

The press needs to be reporting what is said, not interpreting it for the rest of us according to their chosen bias. I realize that will never happen but still.
 

81usaf92

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Yeah, he's pretty good at going after those establishment GOP members who lie about being conservative and supporting Democrat policies. They hate him and so does the leftist media, he threatens the status quo.
Well ask yourself, when this all began, and before trump came to the party, where was Ted Cruz on people's radar? Had trump not make the top people look silly, and had Cruz not leech of him, Cruz would be in Texas sweating a reelection for controversial voting, or lack of, practices.
 

Gr8hope

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Well ask yourself, when this all began, and before trump came to the party, where was Ted Cruz on people's radar? Had trump not make the top people look silly, and had Cruz not leech of him, Cruz would be in Texas sweating a reelection for controversial voting, or lack of, practices.
He was considered one of the most conservative Senators in Congress, a staunch Constitutionalist, and a great debater. He was one of the few who publicly opposed John Boehner and Mitch McConnell when they made deals with Obama. He was instrumental in stopping the Gang of Eight when they tried to ram amnesty through. Rubio was one of the Gang of Eight.
 

swoop10

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Well ask yourself, when this all began, and before trump came to the party, where was Ted Cruz on people's radar? Had trump not make the top people look silly, and had Cruz not leech of him, Cruz would be in Texas sweating a reelection for controversial voting, or lack of, practices.
Okay, I see now a Trump supporter. Trump hasn't made anyone look silly except his supporters. Cruz was hard on the border before Trump ever thought about it. Trump accused Romney of being too harsh on illegals because he said he would self deport them. So who is being real, someone who has been real about the border the whole time or someone who has been on both sides of the issue? I can do more if you want but my point is that Trump is the one who has been all over the place on issues.
 

81usaf92

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Okay, I see now a Trump supporter. Trump hasn't made anyone look silly except his supporters. Cruz was hard on the border before Trump ever thought about it. Trump accused Romney of being too harsh on illegals because he said he would self deport them. So who is being real, someone who has been real about the border the whole time or someone who has been on both sides of the issue? I can do more if you want but my point is that Trump is the one who has been all over the place on issues.
Even if I was a trump supporter what difference would it make on who and what Ted Cruz is. I've said it many times that I believed trump was doing his typical "I got to be in the spotlight for a few months, and I'll make a controversial exit that has people talking" deal. I believe that was what it has always been, but I think he is stroking his ego and seeing how far this can go because for whatever reason he has a significant support from a portion of the working class people. Personally I think he was planning on the shot at McCain to be his exit but he still climbed in the polls despite it.

Cruz was not a serious contender until trump destroyed jeb's campaign. Also what is so real about Ted Cruz? He is basically a hybrid of rand and trump but he tries to spin it that he is an honest candidate, but yet he has lied about such a non factor issue as to how the Ben Carson story came out of his camp and who told him. Then he tries to blame it all on CNN on CNN. Then they fact check the crap out of him to the extent the TrusTed" slogan looks like a lie.So really the only difference between him and trump is that Cruz is a career politician that is actually trying to be president.

If you must know who I support then the answer is anyone but Hillary and Bernie. I really don't care because the GOP isn't actually giving me warm and fuzzies about anyone that actually has a chance but they are better than the current democrats.
 
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Tidewater

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The immigration bill passed the Senate. Yet another example of Cruz's record of futility. You may not like the immigration bill, but at least Rubio saw a broken system and had the guts to try and fix it.
"Fixing," in my view, does not require creating 11 million new Democrat voters.
I think the amnesty bill was bad policy and bad politics. A hopelessly naive play by Rubio. Democrats told Rubio, "Hey we want to really screw the country and we want you to give us political top cover while doing it." And Rubio said, "Duh, okay."

(Imagine the voice of Brer Bear from Song of the South.)
 
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selmaborntidefan

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Even if I was a trump supporter what difference would it make on who and what Ted Cruz is. I've said it many times that I believed trump was doing his typical "I got to be in the spotlight for a few months, and I'll make a controversial exit that has people talking" deal. I believe that was what it has always been, but I think he is stroking his ego and seeing how far this can go because for whatever reason he has a significant support from a portion of the working class people. Personally I think he was planning on the shot at McCain to be his exit but he still climbed in the polls despite it.
We basically agree here.

Cruz was not a serious contender until trump destroyed jeb's campaign.
If Donald Trump accomplishes NOTHING in this campaign, all of us need to be thankful for that one thing - sending the Bush family out to pasture.

Also what is so real about Ted Cruz? He is basically a hybrid of rand and trump but he tries to spin it that he is an honest candidate, but yet he has lied about such a non factor issue as to how the Ben Carson story came out of his camp and who told him.
Yeah, kinda like Hillary has lied about:

- when she knew about her husband philandering in the White House
- her being named after Sir Edmund Hillary
- her whole position on Iraq

I could name a dozen others without a web search.

Then he tries to blame it all on CNN on CNN.
Which is no different than blaming it on a vast right-wing conspiracy

Then they fact check the crap out of him to the extent the TrusTed" slogan looks like a lie.So really the only difference between him and trump is that Cruz is a career politician that is actually trying to be president.
Also true, but it's not even the fact check that bothers me really since most voters are so stupid they don't get it. It's the old 'we like candidate X so let's play up the LIES of candidate Y but refer to the lies of candidate X as 'slight exaggerations.'

If you must know who I support then the answer is anyone but Hillary and Bernie. I really don't care because the GOP isn't actually giving me warm and fuzzies about anyone that actually has a chance but they are better than the current democrats.
I'm still shaking my head at the notion we began this race with 20 candidates and not one of them is worth a damn.
 

81usaf92

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  1. Here ya go....lol......

    1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
    [*]2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>

    [*]
    What kills me is how quick people are to compare something to Hitler and Nazi Germany these days. Yeah Trump says he will do this and that, but until he has the true brown shirts at his disposal I don't think he is capable of pulling it off even if he truly believes in what he says. And if someone tries to post some trump supporter at a trump rally beating someone up, and compare them to the brown shirts, show me where those same people are marching through the streets and beating political opponents up and not just doing it to hecklers at a trump rally.

    A better question might be "Is Bernie a neo Communist?" rather than " Is Trump a fascists?"
 
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TIDE-HSV

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Trump is also one of the least militaristic of the candidates.
The board is messed up and won't let me reply to 81, but, FWIW, the person who drew the most parallels between Hitler and Trump - and closely reasoned - was not a natural-born citizen at all. She was German native and my next door neighbor for a decade, who grew up and lived through Hitler...
 

Bazza

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The board is messed up and won't let me reply to 81, but, FWIW, the person who drew the most parallels between Hitler and Trump - and closely reasoned - was not a natural-born citizen at all. She was German native and my next door neighbor for a decade, who grew up and lived through Hitler...
Her perspective is unique, indeed....you gotta respect that.

I get what 81 is saying though. Sometimes using an extreme in one's narrative is an attempt to get the attention of others...whether or not it is accurate.

In this example - I don't see the correlation at all between Hitler or Facisim and Trump.
 

81usaf92

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Her perspective is unique, indeed....you gotta respect that.

I get what 81 is saying though. Sometimes using an extreme in one's narrative is an attempt to get the attention of others...whether or not it is accurate.

In this example - I don't see the correlation at all between Hitler or Facisim and Trump.
Yeah I tried to edit my post but it still won't let me.

But my point in this is not just the trump comparison, but I've seen people ask police "if we are living in a nazi police state", I've seen protest accuse the other side to be fascists, and people post videos about border patrols to resembling nazi germany.

Yes one can say trump's rhetoric and him singling groups out is comparable to hitler. But trump doesn't have a paramilitary backing him up and a detrimental treaty motivating his followers. Yes many are sick of the Obama and bush terms but I would take them over the treaty of Versailles any day of the week and twice on Sunday. But again my issue is why people are using that description so loosely.
 

Tidewater

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Yeah I tried to edit my post but it still won't let me.

But my point in this is not just the trump comparison, but I've seen people ask police "if we are living in a nazi police state", I've seen protest accuse the other side to be fascists, and people post videos about border patrols to resembling nazi germany.

Yes one can say trump's rhetoric and him singling groups out is comparable to hitler. But trump doesn't have a paramilitary backing him up and a detrimental treaty motivating his followers. Yes many are sick of the Obama and bush terms but I would take them over the treaty of Versailles any day of the week and twice on Sunday. But again my issue is why people are using that description so loosely.
That is a phenomenon that has been going on since World War II. Lots of people on the right half of the political spectrum were either actively complicit or insufficiently opposed to the National Socialists in the 1930s and 1940s, and lefties since have made sure nobody forgets. The backbone of the French Resistance was the French Communist Party, and Petain was a right of center sell-out.
Funny how that analysis never works for lefties being complicit or insufficiently opposed to Socialists/Communists who killed tens of millions of people over the course of the 20th century, but that is the lay of the land.
In Lawrence Kansas, they remember the "Lincoln Brigade" Socialist student-activists who went to Spain to fight against Franco. Those kids, however, were unconnected to the Terror Famine in Ukraine, the Soviet Gulags, the invasions of Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Moldavia, the crushing of the Hungarians in 1956, or the Prague Spring, or the mass murder of Poles in 1939 & 1970, the democide of "The Great Leap Forward," the killing fields of Cambodia, or, or, or...
 

swoop10

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Even if I was a trump supporter what difference would it make on who and what Ted Cruz is. I've said it many times that I believed trump was doing his typical "I got to be in the spotlight for a few months, and I'll make a controversial exit that has people talking" deal. I believe that was what it has always been, but I think he is stroking his ego and seeing how far this can go because for whatever reason he has a significant support from a portion of the working class people. Personally I think he was planning on the shot at McCain to be his exit but he still climbed in the polls despite it.

Cruz was not a serious contender until trump destroyed jeb's campaign. Also what is so real about Ted Cruz? He is basically a hybrid of rand and trump but he tries to spin it that he is an honest candidate, but yet he has lied about such a non factor issue as to how the Ben Carson story came out of his camp and who told him. Then he tries to blame it all on CNN on CNN. Then they fact check the crap out of him to the extent the TrusTed" slogan looks like a lie.So really the only difference between him and trump is that Cruz is a career politician that is actually trying to be president.

If you must know who I support then the answer is anyone but Hillary and Bernie. I really don't care because the GOP isn't actually giving me warm and fuzzies about anyone that actually has a chance but they are better than the current democrats.
Sorry I've been busy the last few days and haven't had time to answer. First I don't care who you support but it does give me an insight into your thinking. Trump supporters seem to think that everything revolves around him and could care less about what he has said in the past.

You say that Cruz wasn't a contender until Trump destroyed Jeb's campaign. First, Jeb only led in the polls for a short time because of name recognition. He was never going to stay in the lead and Trump had very little to do with his slide. Besides you give too much credit to Trump and not enough to Jeb. He was his own worst enemy in that he didn't seem to want to be doing this. Cruz didn't have the name recognition as Jeb or Trump so it was going to take time for people to get to know him.

I'm amazed that you care so much about what you call a lie but don't seem to care about Trump lying about his stances. First you weren't there so you don't know what Cruz knew or when he knew it yet you jump to the he's lying conclusion. Next, I don't think anything Cruz did changed the results of Iowa.

Last you say you will vote for anyone who isn't Hillary or Bernie, well if I'm going to vote for a Democrat I will vote for one with a D by their names not a R. Trump is for a wealth tax as is Hillary. Trump is for eminent domain and executive orders just like most Democrats. Cruz is a Constitutional Conservative. Have you heard Trump mention the Constitution even once since he has been campaigning? I haven't.
 
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81usaf92

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Sorry I've been busy the last few days and haven't had time to answer. First I don't care who you support but it does give me an insight into your thinking. Trump supporters seem to think that everything revolves around him and could care less about what he has said in the past.

You say that Cruz wasn't a contender until Trump destroyed Jeb's campaign. First, Jeb only led in the polls for a short time because of name recognition. He was never going to stay in the lead and Trump had very little to do with his slide. Besides you give too much credit to Trump and not enough to Jeb. He was his own worst enemy in that he didn't seem to want to be doing this. Cruz didn't have the name recognition as Jeb or Trump so it was going to take time for people to get to know him.

I'm amazed that you care so much about what you call a lie but don't seem to care about Trump lying about his stances. First you weren't there so you don't know what Cruz knew or when he knew it yet you jump to the he's lying conclusion. Next, I don't think anything Cruz did changed the results of Iowa.

Last you say you will vote for anyone who isn't Hillary or Bernie, well if I'm going to vote for a Democrat I will vote for one with a D by their names not a R. Trump is for a wealth tax as is Hillary. Trump is for eminent domain and executive orders just like most Democrats. Cruz is a Constitutional Conservative. Have you heard Trump mention the Constitution even once since he has been campaigning? I haven't.
I'm still struggling to see where you are putting 1 and 1 together and getting 3 out of what I said in my second post. First I would've thought me actually saying what I've felt this trump charade is and was and how Selma responded to it would show that I'm in no ways a trump supporter. I'm not hung up on cruz's lie because it's the general nature of politicians, I'm just saying how stupid it was to blame CNN on CNN and get slapped with a lengthy fact check over something that wasn't and isn't going to be a main issue when your slogan is "TrusTed".

Next you are going to have to prove Ted was in position without trump's involvement to stand a chance at this point because these last two debates Ted has gotten dog whipped while the spotlight was on him. All the debates with trump have been "who can survive a wrestling match with trump" and not about who should be president. The narrative changed when trump was leading or wasn't there, and Ted wasn't able to squirm by as much. I just don't see weird momentum swings happening with bush, Rubio, and walker being able to talk without the threat of school yard insults occurring.
 
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